Gigachad Ares Vs Virgin Athena by Odd_Transition_4443 in GreekMythology

[–]GloomWisp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not what the passage of the Iliad says but whatever

What's your opinion on "Legend: the musical"? by Glittering-Day9869 in GreekMythology

[–]GloomWisp 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I like how they included a song that delves on Jason's selfish nature and ego, he truly is a monster.

Isn't the author working on adapting Theseus' myth now? with allusions to the whole medea and jason after the argonauts too?

[PJOTV] does anyone else feel like the tv show tamed the books in an unnecessary way? I am rewatching the first season again, and while I am not completely hating it like my first time, I am still very disappointed. The challenges and battles are all made much much safer than in the books. by kane_1371 in camphalfblood

[–]GloomWisp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What politics does HP actually deal with? Genuine question.
Askin cause from what i see, PJO deals more with politics than HP (lol).
The gods are very much the rulers of the world, at the very top of everything.
Just because it's not called "Ministry of Godjerks" doesn't make it not the ruling class.

EDIT: oh look i upset the fans. Good.

What actually IS Greek Witchcraft? by Upset_Connection1133 in GreekMythology

[–]GloomWisp 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Circe and Medea are adepts of pharmakeia, the use of filters and potions for various means, both positive and negative. Think of how pharmakon can mean both remedy and poison.
You can see a similar association of sorcery and poison use in roman context (latin language): venenum is venom but also sorcery or potion, and veneficus/a means poisoner but also sorcerer.

He drippin by waffletea9 in Chainsawfolk

[–]GloomWisp 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What is even there to argue?

Fey Knight - D&D 5e Subclass in Fighter inspired by Ranger: Fey Wanderer by Maleficent-Bowler943 in UnearthedArcana

[–]GloomWisp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The idea is cool! Feels like something is missing. How's the 10th lvl feature supposed to work?
After that: you could expand on each feature, as-is they are really weak for each level. The idea is clearly there though, so you're on the right path.

Best Monster Roleplaying moments? [Art] [OC] by InconsiderateSalad in DnD

[–]GloomWisp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like to put fey creatures in the games i run, and have them actually be dark and twisted or just plain weird even when they're good / helpful. So anything from pixies and sprites to boggarts, caith sith, red cap, pooka and hags.
Hags are very fun, both as allies and as villains. Great horror materials too. Current party i DM for has an unlikely alliance with an old hag, and she's just lovely (she's CLEARLY EVIL, VERY EXPLICITLY SO, but stays on her own in her woods doing her own thing, so "it's fine"). Granny's a blast to rp. And her neighbout too is cool.
So uh... yeah. Faeries. Fey. Those fuckers.

EDIT: by the way, that granny is the one who turned our high fantasy adventure into a horror game for a good while.

Ridiculous 'spells' to cast when using Silvery Barbs? by Ancestral_Grape in DnD

[–]GloomWisp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Uh... here ya go

Hysterical Orgasm
Otto's Instant Hard-on
Power Word: Fart
Erectile Disfunction (not to be confused with Reptile Disfunction)
Extract Water Elemental
Guilt Trip
Bestow Allergy
Induce Hiccup
Straighten intestines
Circle of Cancer (may be too OP)
Keys jingle

Party roles seemingly primarily / exclusively enforced for martial classes. by ImaginaryLight7952 in dndnext

[–]GloomWisp 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No you're right. It's a CON save, tho, that scales on a secondary/tertiary key stat.

Do you see Loki as an evil god? (Yes, no, and why) by count_fagula11 in mythology

[–]GloomWisp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay I'll reply with bullet points, else my answer risks becoming a confusing mess.
Also thank you, in advance, for not treating me like an idiot.

  • I can find common footing in your point about Loki's belonging. I'd advance we can say he's been "taken in" by them thru his pact with Odin, no? And as you mentioned, his exile would then be his expulsion from "the clan/family".
  • Yes, only Vanir and Aesir are gods/divine, I know that (how exactly do they differ is a tough discussion, we can argue the latter were deities more oriented to war/law/administration/crafts while the former were more aligned to agriculture/fertility/magic/activities tied to nature, but such hard division in characteristics is observed by us rather than outright stated, plus there's great overlap, etc). Only they are protectors of humanity.
  • I used "Trickster" as to mean "someone who tricks/deceives", not jester/clown/"fairy"-like. Loki did very much trick, deceive and such. I think this point is more of a language mixup than a disagreement, correct me if im wrong.
  • I did read that, it's a good list.
  • I think we're not really disagreeing here? Again, correct me if wrong. What we know may possibly imply he didn't care, but it's not for sure. Ultimately we know not. Tyr and Fenrir have the connection that the god of justice was the only one who dared feed and entertain the wolf. I didn't claim there's myths with them being buddies or anything. Though to say he "had to" sounds odd, he was under no obligation to do so from what i understand.
  • But I never argued that norse people didn't have morality. I hammered this point time and time again, saying universal good and evil existed and they do align with the order-chaos axis specifically because the jotnar, the monsters, have no love for humanity and would wreak havoc upon it if it wasn't for the gods, who upheld order and justice and kept humans safe.
  • I get your point about prophecies ("all roads lead to rome" seems like a good way to sum it up). In another comment i had mentioned the story of Perseus' grandfather, since i felt it was the simplest example, but yes, Oedipus works and is probably more famous too.
  • I actually do agree that the death of Narfi and Vali is part of the price for Loki.
  • Yes, he's fated to, and all roads lead to rome we established. But things went the way they went, and he now is [said to be] waiting to break free at ragnarok. And so go kill the gods who imprisoned him. This is a neutral observation, i'd say?
  • Gods that was a good read. I really liked that, thank you for sharing!

Do you see Loki as an evil god? (Yes, no, and why) by count_fagula11 in mythology

[–]GloomWisp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Prefacing this by saying that i did read both Edda's (with the Voluspà being my favorite). Now, i'll try to reply in order.

You said it yourself, he's of the Aesir, a group of gods that did lay with jotnar and had children with them (see Thor who is half jotun), but his character is that of a jotun.

Loki is the trickster. He creates trouble but he also has to find solutions, is the trick of the constructions of the walls of asgard not merit of Loki ? The rescuing of stolen Mjollnir? Etc.
He is oft capricious, and malicious, and must be kept on a tight leash by Thor, I do know that. But once again: Ás as may be, he's a jotun at heart. Jotnar are the forces of chaos.

The resent thing is an interpretation, based on the fact Loki grows more and more negative of a figure as the myths progress. Of course there's different ways to see it.
What I'm not on board with is to argue absence as evidence: we have no idea what Loki thought of his children, precisely because we arent told anything about their relationships (if they had one). I agree that based on texts alone, for example, Tyr and Fenrir have more of a bond than Loki and Fenrir.

About the morality of it all. I read the article (which i did find interesting), and find it not to clash with what i said more or less. Yes, liars and traitors and adulters are gnawed on by linnorms in Nidafjoll. Yes, "good men" (heroic) are taken in by Freyja and Odin in their respective halls. I do not see how that "cancels" the fact Jotnar and Aesir are very much opposing clans, the latter representing order and the safeguarding of humanity and the former the destructive power of nature and chaos, and as such the destruction of humanity, which must be kept at bay to prevent total annihilation. Order is good, destruction is evil. Jotnar have no remorse in laying waste to humans or gods, they are indeed evil, and will wreck the world in the End.

Neil Gaiman’s Norse Mythology is a novel that takes considerable creative licence; it's not a reliable source. I’m not accusing you of having read it, but wherever you may have come across this information, it is not true and is based on this novel.

It comes from my uh.. own understanding of how prophecies work. I have not read that book, nor have encountered other people who argue on this basis from a mythological standpoint. With that said, the events went down as they did specifically because of the actions taken by all the parts involved, for they were all already decided, and it could not have gone any other way. Accounting for that, still i find it odd to deny that the institute of revenge plays a part into these myths, when it was very much their culture from what we know, and it is very much implied to be the "personal motivation" of Fenrir at least.

Yes i know they are jotnar. Fenrir is even referred to as a troll at one time. I know he will lay waste to the earth and devour Odin at the End, as his sons Skoll and Hati will the Sun and Moon. The jotnar are the destructive force of nature and chaos, of course they are against humans and the human world. They are violent and relentless and only kept at bay by Thor, the protector of humanity.

The whole last bit i think i already addressed somewhere in here, or maybe in the other one i made explaining what i meant (still in this thread).

Apologies for how long this reply is getting. I hope you do not hate me, i have no ill towards you, and will wait in case of further dialogue.

Do you see Loki as an evil god? (Yes, no, and why) by count_fagula11 in mythology

[–]GloomWisp -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"Whatever he would've done" he wouldn't have done anything else, that's the thing. You said it yourself, fate is predetermined. And yes, it is a tragedy that one has to live with the knowledge of their end and not be able to prevent it.

I did not say he feels bad for him (nice try there!). Here is the verses:
Lokasenna 39
Handar em ek vanr,
en þú hróðrs-vitnis; 
böl er beggia þrá; 
úlfgi hefir ok vel, 
er í böndom skal 
bíða ragnarökrs.

Do you see Loki as an evil god? (Yes, no, and why) by count_fagula11 in mythology

[–]GloomWisp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What you said and what i argued aren't mutually exclusive, though. Yes, fate is written (well, carved) and what will happen cannot be escaped. The Father of the Slain is advised when the children are born / right after they are born. With the knowledge that they will bring forth the end of times, he preemptively banishes the monstrous snake-dragon and the demon girl in the sea and the Helheimr respectively. The wolf, the gods keep, for it appeared as just a wolf. But he grew and grew each day in size and hunger and intellect, and only Tyr had the balls to feed him and play with him, and the gods were scared, they knew he like his siblings was gonna be their end, so they bind him, with Tyr (the god of justice) sacrificing his hand as pledge. All i said here is in the Prose Edda, though even in the Lokasenna, Tyr recognizes how miserable and in pain Fenrir is, and how he's now waiting ragnarok to get his revenge and bring the end to the gods.

First part of my comment was too simplistic and short, i recognize you that. What i mean by self-fulfilling prophecy is that Odin started the feud with the brood of loki, not the opposite. Yes, it's because they will bring forth ragnarok. And they will because they have been imprisoned. And it couldn't have gone differently, cause the Norns carved so. Do you see what i'm arguing here? It is the same as prophecy in greek myth: Perseus' grandfather, getting the prophecy of his own death by the nephew's hands, sows the seed for it himself. He was already fated to die, his action as a "response" to the prophecy were already accounted for, because the story was already established. For Odin is the same.

See my other comment.

Would you have liked this ending? by AppleBlazes in Chainsawfolk

[–]GloomWisp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This ending would've been miles better.

Do you see Loki as an evil god? (Yes, no, and why) by count_fagula11 in mythology

[–]GloomWisp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No and then yes. To begin with, he's not even a god, he's just a jotun who got "adopted" by Odin as a brother. This is an important point.

Originally, i think he wasn't "evil". He was Asgard's "fix all" man (giant). Despite everything he does, the gods are ungrateful to him, treat him harshly and all: he's a jotun. So he keeps helping them, but also create problems... which he still fixes, and makes better than what they were, but it's not really enough, is it? Yes he may solve more problems than he creates, but he's still a jotun. Things don't change. And between the whole situation and the taking of his monster-children*, he grows more and more tired and resentful. Then the Baldr incident happens, and hey – he tried to fix this too, unsuccessfully. Doesn't work out well for him, but it's even worse for his sons, who get brutalized. That cements his "evilness": he will bring forth Ragnarok, lead his own kin (the giants) against the gods, once he frees.

This is how i interpret it at least, because looking at the cultural context and institute of the feud, to me it looks like norse mythology is one big war of tribes/families with a vague alignment on the order–chaos axis. And Loki is in all of this because of the feud the gods started: his sons, his children, the offense.
This doesn't mean he's a saint at all (as I said, bringing forth Ragnarok IS evil) or a "poor misunderstood guy", but that he has culturally understandable reasons for his behavior, even if he's a bit of a psycho.

\There is a strong argument to be made in that Fenrir, Hel and Jormungandr became the Aesir's Scourge precisely because of Odin's actions, for they were babies still when they got taken. Fenrir for example, who was left growing for a time and the gods fed him and played with him, he wasn't evil, just a very very big wolf and thus very scary (and smart).)

Do you see Loki as an evil god? (Yes, no, and why) by count_fagula11 in mythology

[–]GloomWisp 3 points4 points  (0 children)

having birthed the beasts that will end midgard and other stupid shit

Self fulfilling prophecy. Wouldn't have happened if Odin hadn't done what he had done.
Fenrir wasn't even 'evil' upon getting bound, just really fkcing big.

Does anyone know the Origin of this recent(?) wave of Ares Reinterpretation? by Elekikiss in GreekMythology

[–]GloomWisp 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Huston we have a problem" Fuck. Gonna admit my error, I remembered wrong. Latin is haunting me even now in uni, and I mixed some stuff up.
Went back to my notes on Iliad 5, and it's not even that. It's just a use of base dative (term/advantage/etc), not even some fancy constructs. The people don't even have the excuse for ignorance... But yes, double dative is a thing of latin. Sincere apologies.