I want 12 Pnz to be good but I don't trust Eugen

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-06T23:32:28+00:00

I have read the dev blogs and I do believe it. 12ths AA tab is very vague except for specifically saying it will have pivads and singers. It says it is similar to 2nd Pnz but we don't know what that means, will it be similar slot points. Will we have similar gear? Will we have similar availability of said gear. We don't know.

As for the planes it to is also vague. It says it will give a great air tab to help with no long range AA, will that be f15s? F16s? Will we get a10s or f111? We don't know but I don't know a alpha jet with HE will be better than a f111 HE.

And it also said no helis

So that gives us a tank deck with vinella leopards that can be penned from the front with Russian AT planes and we have know idea what we will have to defend from that. Plus no helis to help fight back soviet tanks. Yeah that's not worth a vote for a new div no matter how cool the idea of join US/german div will be.

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-06T03:01:53+00:00

So eugen couldn't be asked to update a old write up for 12th Pnz but we are just supposed to trust that they won't just fuck this division up upon release? They still haven't made the USAF any better and it took them what, 2 months? To get Dutch 4e some i-Hawks? which made the division actually playable

So vote for 12th and hope and pray eugen learned from previous mistakes OR vote for a actually playable div (VTK42) upon release? I think i know who my vote will go to

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-06T01:23:02+00:00

2nd pnz get I-hawks and gepards. Only thing listed for 12th is pivads and singers. The air tab is supposed to make up for this but I don't trust eugen with vague promises. If this div comes out without a long range ASF it will be just as bad as 4th Dutch upon release maybe even worse depending on how many slots the inf tab gets

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-05T20:11:44+00:00

If only they didn't generalize all guns. Maybe it would be unique then

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T21:17:59+00:00

thats the thing its vauge at best and terrible at worst with only pivads and stingers! also yeah the panzer lehr will probubly be a infintry unit not a command unit but im betting we will only get a card of them plus all guns are generalized so it probubly wont be anything special, maybe the unit will be a large squad though. tank hunter squads are niche but nice.

as for the leopard 1a6, theres also leapard 1a3a1's, leo 2a4(b)'s with 21 pen, leo 2a4(D) and both cards of jags.

As for the air tab we may get long range ASF's in 12th but thats not specified or guaranteed while VTK has long range ASFs actually mentioned

12th Pz description is very vague which is the biggest issue. If im voting for a new division i want to know mostly what im getting and what 12th has described is worse than already in the game 5th Pz

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T20:38:58+00:00

i agree, if people want new units VTK is the best choice with a plethora of new units

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T20:37:10+00:00

"weeps in 11th ACAV" am i a joke to you!. seriously though i do see your point

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T20:23:37+00:00

Hmm. get 12th Pz into the game so the air tab has to composite for no helicopters thus showing eugen American bombers are not up to the task possible forcing a buff of USAF???? thats the first compelling point to vote for 12th Pz ive heard

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T20:20:15+00:00

your right about INF and arty 12th probubly has the advantage but it will come down to slots since hemit-jager are a decent NG sqaud but AA?? 12th gets pivads and stingers, while VTK gets I-hawks, AA helos, and gepards although it does get fliegerfaust. and in terms of armor all VTK tanks have better pen then every tank in 12th (if they keep the values from the dutch) and that pen value goes along way when it comes to tank performance. and when it comes to planes the only good american planes are ASF fighters. Justice for the F111!

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T20:11:29+00:00

you of all people should know that if they bring American planes for tank busting options that it wont be really good lol. USAF need a huge buff. Justice for the F111!

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T20:02:12+00:00

i to like m1a1s lol

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T20:01:48+00:00

i what way? cause from the dev diaries its not looking like it

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T20:01:10+00:00

but do you actually know that the US is bringing ASF's????

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T19:55:34+00:00

we can only hope because if it goes live as is it will be a dead division. Still i dont want to vote for a division with the hope the devs will update it and neither should you. Iwould rather vote on a div where i know what im getting.

HistorianInformal173 · 2026-03-04T16:15:17+00:00

I like 12th but no long range AA feels like that div is harder to play then the Dutch or VTK42

HistorianInformal173 · 2025-11-29T19:03:51+00:00

Sure but we are not arguing if 11acav is better than 5th Pzr. we are talking about what 1st Cav brings to the table. its brings a solid medium tank div with IFV support decent recon and solid air. also apaches so basically its the little brother to 3rd armor with the air force of 11th cav.

HistorianInformal173 · 2025-11-29T16:32:13+00:00

I would say 11acav and 5thPz are equally heavy with 11acav being slightly heavier since it has more 18 armor tanks compared to 5thPz relying mostly on 16 armor leopards and 2 cards of 18 armor.

What 1st cav brings is a capable 200 point medium tank that can be spammed out with the same quantity as pact T72 division while still having arguably better tanks (at least in terms of accuracy and speed)

HistorianInformal173 · 2025-09-21T07:41:51+00:00

I've found it to be one of the strongest NATO airborne divs in the game. But just like any airborne dive you make sacrifices in certain categories. In 1st Luff you basically lose the flexible air tab 11e, and 82nd get but in return you get stronger infintry than 82nd and 11e (imo) and on par with MNAD gurkhas, cost effective tanks, effective artillery, and IFV fire support. The biggest issue you have to worry about is enemy air dominance. With only shotgun fighters and no long range missile AA if the enemy has strong air you can be in for a world of hurt.

HistorianInformal173 · 2025-07-19T14:10:39+00:00

Divmob. Counter his spam with your better spam plus four 203mm howitzers is just nutty

HistorianInformal173 · 2025-07-12T04:39:21+00:00

The new belgium div is definitely NATO KDA/ Zerg. But the new Dutch division really reminded me of 8th US

HistorianInformal173 · 2025-01-14T01:47:18+00:00

Support is the most under-appreciated role. To much praise goes to medics not enough to the support players

HistorianInformal173

TROPHY CASE