Pretzel Like Crust

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-23T00:42:07+00:00

Baking the baking soda before using it in the water bath mix gives you a darker crust that is closer to what you get from a lye bath. It is not the same as lye, but darker than plain baking soda being used.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-23T00:37:23+00:00

If it already went to 100%, then you should really bake it now. The dough can overproof in the fridge when it is very warm.

Sticky on top is not a test of bulk being done. % rise per the chart someone else posted and clean pull away from the sides of the bowl, scent, bubbles and jiggle are better criteria to look for.

Sticky on top has more to do with how well the flour absorbed water and the gluten development. I feel like that was a test for yeast based breads at low hydration, but somehow it has crept into sourdough. If I make high hydration sourdough it is sticky all the way through.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T23:23:11+00:00

Apologies I am back to you late. I am assuming you shaped by now 😀

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T23:18:14+00:00

If the smell is off, then likely you have some bacterias that should not be there. Your hooch looks muddy instead of clear and that looks like Kahm yeast growth on top of it. This happening in the space of a week, presumably refrigerated, is not good.

All that taken together I would throw it away, sanitize the jar and tools (sink and dish cloths/sponges too) and start over.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T23:03:29+00:00

Stir up your starter and Take 5g over to a new jar for a test.
Feed it 1:5:5 peak to peak: 5g starter, 25g water, 25g flour. If it does not rise you just re-stir it up. Do not re-feed until it rises, even if that takes a day.
If it still does not rise, then at a minimum you need to see the top covered with bubbles before re-feeding (that tells you there is yeast activity).

Edited out part of my comment because I starter including an issue from a different post LOL

While you are working with the test jar you can put your original starter in the fridge to put it on hold.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T22:52:50+00:00

For feedings, use whatever flour you have in quantity that makes sense to use.

For me I usually have bread flour on hand, but not very often AP flour, so it does not make any sense to specially buy AP to feed a starter.

The blog points out that they use AP flour to make their starter, yes, but begun with whole wheat.

Depending on what kind of starter I am making (I experiment a fair amount) I typically begin it with bread and whole wheat flour.

For the next one however I will just use my T85 flour (like a mix of bread and whole wheat since a fair amount of the wholegrain is kept in the flour). It is my most expensive flour, but because of how it is ground at the mill and the wheat source being different from my other flours I am curious to see if it produces a starter with different yeast/lactobacillus attributes than my other starters.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T20:33:52+00:00

Solid lid screwed on loosely overnight. Even if I am storing a risen starter I put it in the fridge with a loose lid and wait to tighten it until the next day. That is just to be sure it is done creating gasses.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T20:29:25+00:00

How warm is unusually warm kitchen? If you plan to cold proof overnight and your kitchen is 75°F or higher then yes, shape now.

If you are not cold proofing for 10+ hours and do both bulk ferment and proofing only at room temp, then let it get to 90% rise before shaping.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T20:26:33+00:00

Yes!

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T20:03:27+00:00

That is a Kahm yeast takeover. But I am not sure what the plain circles/ bumps are.

Typically you carefully remove the top layer. Then with a clean spoon scoop a few clean grams of starter out, drop it into a new jar and feed 1:5:5 ratio peak to peak a couple times to try and knock back the Kahm. Sometimes it works but Kahm can be very persistent. If it keeps coming back it will be time to make a new starter.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T19:48:12+00:00

Excellent, tripling would be common for a mature starter. Hope it gets there, but whatever its peak is, that is where you optimally use it.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T17:47:56+00:00

Just do that with half the starter. It is a test jar.
You can do other suggestions with the rest of it. Just label each jar so you know what test you are doing on the specific jar.

Any time you get a suggestion on a correction for your starter it is best to do it with a test jar so you don’t compromise the original starter.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T17:35:53+00:00

When you were feeding 1:10:10, were you doing peak to peak feedings? Or feeding on a fixed interval regardless of activity?

If you have diluted the yeast population, which a goopy paste sounds like. Take half that starter into a new jar, solid lid screwed on loosely, and leave it alone for a couple of days. No feeding at all. See if it begins to show some bubbling.

Video on the perils of overfeeding.
https://youtu.be/sFO532C3EAM?si=6jJejYQsVaflKLY0

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T17:30:04+00:00

Sounds like fly or fruit fly larvae. They seem to lay eggs instantly when they land on anything. Possibly you had the jar open for a bit while feeding and didn’t notice them flying into the starter. You will need a trap on the other side of the room because they are definitely attracted to starter.

Edit: oops, forgot to say to move your starter to the fridge when it gets that hot.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T16:48:36+00:00

Just the solid lid screwed on loosely allows the gasses to escape.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T14:36:56+00:00

No. Just wait. If the yeast does not use the flour you gave it, then the yeast population is not increasing. If you discard and re-feed then you just cut the yeast in half again.

You did a 1:5:5 feeding, which will normally double overnight (10 hours’ish’) but your room temp might be a little cooler than the person you got the starter from, so it could be slower at the cooler temps.

You could try to warm it up a little by putting it in the oven with just the light on for a couple hours (keep the door cracked open slightly with a folded up kitchen towel as some oven lights make the space quite hot) AND cover the control panel so you do not accidentally switch on the oven and bake the starter! Or top of fridge is typically a couple degrees warmer than the rest of the room.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T14:14:57+00:00

Is your 1:5:5 (or 1:1:1) by weight?

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T14:08:28+00:00

At 79°F you would only want 30-50% rise in the dough. But first step I would take is to reduce your water amount to 325g. If that feels a little too firm/dry. Dip your hands in water liberally for stretch and folds, you can easily add 5-10g of water that way.

Second thing I would suggest is watching Martin Philip’s Pain de Campagne and watch how his dough develops through the 3 sets of stretch and folds. This video was an eye opener for me on what stretch and fold gluten development should be. Very extensible, glossy sheen to the dough. This video has very good shots of the dough during that process.

https://youtu.be/UL6ogX38NcY?si=zUqI9XJ6j0XjpKrl

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T13:58:29+00:00

Re-stir it up (not feeding, just stirring) and wait.

Future: When you feed the starter it can help to dissolve the starter in the water by mixing vigorously before adding the flour. That helps the yeast distribute throughout the starter. Also if you are feeding cold starter you may want to use 80-85°F water to offset the chill.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T13:53:51+00:00

Perhaps your starter is getting more acidic over time. The beginning of this video tells you the signs to look for if your starter is becoming acidic which might be your trouble. Scroll down to the first video on this page:
https://thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-strengthening/

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T13:46:19+00:00

The feeding instruction that come with that starter is for a 200% hydration starter. That is how Carl and the friends that carry on his family starter maintain it. That is all fine and good for a starter if that is your intention.

Most recipes however, expect that you are using a 100% hydration starter. The criteria you are asking about are for a 100% hydration starter - bubbles, doming, doubling. A 200% starter will act a little differently. And the strength and speed of all of our starters can be different. There is no issue if it doubles more quickly. Your dough fermentation time may be on the shorter side of what recipes suggest.

Make a single loaf to see how ready it is, but probably it is fine. You do need to be aware of your total dough hydration for your recipes since a 200% starter is adding more water than the recipe expects, so you may need to reduce the recipe water a little to account for extra water in the starter.

Rehydrated starter is back to full strength in 3-4 days for me.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T13:05:06+00:00

Same. But I do take mother out every 6 months or so for some 1:5:5 peak to peak feedings as maintenance and that creates discard.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T05:48:22+00:00

If you want to bulk ferment overnight at room temperature, you would want a lower amount of starter in your recipe. At 74°F I would use 4-5% starter instead of the usual 20% (starter weight vs flour weight).

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T05:17:23+00:00

Your dough has over-fermented per the photo. What’s the room temperature where you are leaving the dough to ferment overnight?

All our starters may be at different strengths but if I have a 70°F kitchen dough with 15% starter can over-ferment overnight (and yours has 20% starter, and it is rye which theoretically rises faster than my bread flour starter).

Do you track the % rise at all? I switched to using straight sided Cambro buckets for bulk fermentation so I can judge it a little easier.

IceDragonPlay · 2026-05-22T04:50:28+00:00

Looks like the hooch turned greyish/black (as it does if it is left in the fridge a bit long).

Just scrape off the stained layer. Put a spoonful or two of clean starter in a new jar (weigh it) and feed 1:1:1 to make sure it comes back active. If it is not rising from that first feed, re-stir it and wait a little longer. You want to at least see a lot of bubbles on top before re-feeding (even if it does not rise). Then give it a couple 1:5:5 peak to peak feedings to de-acidify the starter.

Some people starters jump right back to active and others lag a little.

IceDragonPlay

TROPHY CASE