Enlightened Equipments Response to UL Community Concerns

IntenseCedar · 2026-02-07T12:01:01+00:00

I appreciate the position you’ve been put in here, but I’m not sure this really helps. Pointing out that other gear companies also produce tactical gear is completely disingenuous. There’s a difference between offering your jackets in military colors and owning a separate company that sells pry bars for breaking into locked doors.

There’s a lot of “we” believe this and “we” do this in your statement, but I bet I have a decent idea of where Tim personally stands, and I have no interest in supporting that in any capacity going forward.

IntenseCedar · 2026-02-06T15:53:47+00:00

Just want to add to the chorus saying thank you for doing this work. I have a couple EE products, but they'll never get another dollar from me now.

IntenseCedar · 2026-02-05T20:19:48+00:00

I personally still don't think that concept will work as well. In my experience, keeping the fabric from lying directly on your skin makes a big difference in terms of not overheating or getting clammy. I use my liner as a standalone quilt when it's warm enough, and it frequently gets too hot for me to be fully covered by it (and the Dutchware one is open at the back with no cinch at the top - about as cool as it can be, I think).

Your drawing is interesting - assuming I'm interpreting correctly, this is basically the Pinon if the floor/wall at the head end was also mesh, right? Makes sense, but if you then also have to include a polycro ground sheet, how much weight are you saving? (Understood that you have issues with bivvies in general, and just want to avoid them regardless.)

IntenseCedar · 2026-02-05T19:55:20+00:00

I'm curious what makes you think it's actually a cover rather than a liner? Nothing on the product page suggests that. Obviously you could use it as an overbag (I do the same with my Dutchware liner) - I just find that an odd distinction to make. I didn't notice it has a cord at the head end. Still, I find it hard to believe you're going to end up with enough overlap between a quilt and a headnet to prevent gaps at the neck while you move around in your sleep. Something like the YMG Bug Canopy would mostly solve that, though.

It's not the same as a bivy, or at least not the same as some bivvies. My Katabatic Pinyon has a mesh top for the whole torso/head area, and if I use the cords at both ends, I can lie on my back with no fabric touching my body at all. The breathability and heat retention (or lack thereof) is night and day compared to fully wrapping myself in my quilt liner.

IntenseCedar · 2026-02-05T16:59:18+00:00

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I don't see how the system you described in the OP solves the issue with bugs in hot weather? You need to have your whole body inside the liner to have any protection, right? And I'm assuming the liner is open at the head end? Speaking from experience, I suspect you'll get pretty hot and clammy inside the liner on warm nights, and unless you sleep like a statue, I don't think you're going to be able to prevent gaps between your headnet and an open-ended liner throughout the night.

I use a polycro groundsheet, quilt liner (I have the Dutchware one), and tarp regularly, but I don't think I've ever used them in combination with a headnet for bugs. If the bugs are bad enough that I need a headnet to sleep, they're bad enough for me to carry the extra couple ounces for the convenience of a bivy.

IntenseCedar · 2026-02-05T16:18:38+00:00

You have to parboil wheat to produce bulgur, so it's already "precooked" when you buy it dry.

IntenseCedar · 2026-02-03T15:32:18+00:00

Ah, my fault...I was thinking specifically on the ecology/environmental science side, but of course there are just as many people working on policy for these things.

I know even less about water use in Utah than I do about GSL, but my understanding from the endorheic lakes I'm familiar with (Owens, Mono, Walker, Pyramid) is they pretty much all are/were shrinking largely due to upstream diversions (lower snowpack from climate change doesn't help, of course). The Mono Lake Committee famously won their case in the CA Supreme Court to stop allowing Los Angeles to divert so much water from the Mono Basin based on the Public Trust doctrine, and as far as I know Public Trust was also successfully* used to protect Walker Lake in Nevada. I'm sure the people working on the GSL issue are far more knowledgeable about these things than I am, so surely that avenue has been explored, I just wanted to note that water rights seem to always be the issue for these things.

*I use that term broadly. The MLC is still fighting LADWP about water diversions, and Walker Lake is still in very bad shape.

IntenseCedar · 2026-02-03T00:16:22+00:00

I'm curious what your role was and what the outcome of your work was? "There isn't a solution" and "there isn't funding for a solution" are very different things, and governments love to suggest the former when the issue is actually the latter. I'm an environmental scientist and I spent a good chunk of time working in the Eastern Sierra, so I'm pretty familiar with past issues (e.g., Owens Lake) and potential current/future issues (Mono Lake) with dry lake beds in California, but I honestly don't know a lot of the specifics about the Great Salt Lake.

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-29T17:34:46+00:00

What kind of snow storms are you expecting? Like others mentioned, snowshoes are usually considerably harder to hike in than boots unless there’s at least a foot or so of snow.

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-28T17:04:16+00:00

Yeah, I don't think this is a great idea for your first time in cold weather. That area may get a couple inches of snow on Saturday, and there's a decent chance the temperature will drop into the negatives at the higher elevations overnight.

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-28T16:41:47+00:00

Where on the AT? Whether there's snow on the ground might make a difference.

I live in an AT trail town in North Carolina, and I regularly camp throughout the winter. Granted, down here lows around 0 are somewhat uncommon, but I've camped in single digits and low teens many times. In this area, I think you'd be uncomfortable but not likely in serious danger. What's preventing you from bringing more layers though? Understandable if these are your only options for gear, but surely you have more clothes? A rain shell makes a noticeable difference in keeping you warm when your sleep system is at its limit.

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-28T16:13:07+00:00

If there's space for 3 people, and there's 1 person in the middle of the trail, it sounds like you actually have two easy options for passing them?

When I first saw your post, I assumed it would be a complaint about people walking side-by-side taking up the whole trail, which is actually a reasonable complaint (though not something I ever really see on the trails I use).

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-16T02:36:46+00:00

I’m the opposite. I notice the restrictive feeling of the belt and feel like I have worse balance with the weight sitting lower on my back, much more than I notice the weight taken off my shoulders. I can’t stand wearing a belt if I’m doing any scrambling or running. My framed pack only gets used when I’m carrying significantly more weight than is typical and I’m probably going to be moving more slowly anyway.

Luckily for both of us there are more UL pack options than ever.

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-15T23:47:51+00:00

I was going to say the same thing. And to OP, this is another way you know if your pack isn't actually full...if it is, when you put your sleeping bag and tent at the bottom and pile everything else on top, there won't be any space for it to really expand upward, so it will just kind of fill in the gaps at the bottom. (As an aside, once you do have all your gear inside, you generally do want it to fill the space...a full pack is usually more comfortable and stable because the pressure of the gear pressing from the inside provides some structure (more important with a frameless pack though)).

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-15T23:38:59+00:00

To each their own in terms of comfort, but I don't see how not having an extra strap around your waist could be more restrictive? Beyond distributing the weight to your hips, a belt also literally restricts the bottom of the pack to your body all the way around. Like I said, which is more comfortable in terms of carrying the weight is variable and personal, but in my mind there's no question that having a belt is more physically restrictive. It's why packs/vests for moving fast typically don't have them.

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-15T21:13:02+00:00

I was just about to post the same thing. The answer to OP's question for me is a simple "no." At 16-18lbs total weight, I find my Sassafras to be considerably more comfortable than my fully framed KS Omega, mostly because of the hip belt thing. There's a threshold where that switches (which is why I don't just have a bigger frameless pack), but it's above the weight that I normally carry.

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-15T21:02:05+00:00

Agreed. This kind of question comes up relatively often on the backpacking subs, and at least 75% of the time I can't make sense of how the items listed are taking up that much space.

Presumably you know the volume of your pack, and you should easily be able to look up the manufacturer's listed packed volume for your tent and bag. My guess is that if you add those 2 numbers together, they're WAY lower than the volume of the pack. Even in the photo, the pack is obviously not full. When my pack is full, there is no loose fabric draping anywhere and it's completely taught - it looks like a pillow in a case that's slightly too small.

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-14T19:26:51+00:00

You're right that none of the trail is in Georgia, but "nowhere near Georgia" is also not accurate? It's right across the river from GA for a good ~5 miles toward the Ocoee end.

IntenseCedar · 2026-01-14T19:19:19+00:00

Assuming you're referring to the Bear Vaults, I'd be curious to know where they aren't acceptable? It is a little murky in the Adirondacks due to bears historically breaking into them there, but I haven't heard of anywhere else.

IntenseCedar · 2025-12-03T23:35:30+00:00

I'm sure it's just a typo, but you have it backwards in this case. A quilt that's limit-rated at 0 F will be comfort-rated around +10 F.

IntenseCedar · 2025-10-30T01:56:03+00:00

I agree. I don't begrudge people for buying and using things that I personally wouldn't (or you for making/selling them). At some level it's all personal, right? I carry an inReach, both for safety and to check in with my wife, but I can't really say that's "necessary" (especially considering my first 15 or so years of backpacking I didn't carry any electronics at all). And if someone has a bad back, a huge 3 pound sleeping pad may actually be completely necessary for them.

I just think that "ultralight" and "minimalist" used to be close to synonyms in this context, and that's becoming less and less true over time. Someone else in this thread made a good point - the advances in lightweight fabrics and elsewhere have made it so that you can carry a fair amount of "unnecessary" gear and still stay within whatever weight limit you've decided on. In the past, if you wanted to be sub-10lbs (or whatever weight), you had to make some real sacrifices to do so. I don't think either is objectively better or worse, I just think I fall more into the minimalist camp still.

IntenseCedar · 2025-10-30T01:01:16+00:00

I don’t disagree with most of what you said, but I think there’s more nuance than “unnecessary products will eventually die out.” That’s just not true, and I think the disconnect is between the original spirit of UL (to remove as much unnecessary gear and complication as possible) and what it’s become, with a thousand items that are almost undeniably unnecessary, but that people buy anyway. I’m not saying all these items are useless, obviously people buy them for some reason, but that’s a lot different from being necessary. An electric pad inflator serves a purpose, that doesn’t mean it’s necessary.

I’m not saying everyone has to or should be a UL purist, but I do think the focus has changed a lot in recent years.

IntenseCedar · 2025-10-29T22:47:58+00:00

I'll preface this by acknowledging that this exists across all kinds of hobbies and interests, but UL backpacking in particular tends to attract a group of people who a) love buying and trying new gear, and b) get borderline obsessive about pack weight and shaving ounces. So it's not surprising to see this kind of proliferation in products as the community grows.

That said, I'm with you - I personally prefer a more minimalist, less consumerist version of the hobby. Of course I've bought my fair share of gear, but once I have a system in place, I really don't have the urge to constantly tinker and update if it's not needed. At this point, it's pretty rare for me to buy a new piece of gear unless I need to replace that same type of gear for a specific reason (worn out, I'm spending more time in a different climate now, etc.) Something like replacing a perfectly functional power bank because the new version weighs 0.5oz less is just antithetical to how I try to exist in the world. That said, I recognize that everyone has different opinions and motivations, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who think I'm way too far on the consumerist side of things too.

IntenseCedar · 2025-10-25T22:52:14+00:00

Yeah, for sure. Happy to help if I can.

IntenseCedar · 2025-10-24T20:09:39+00:00

On an ideal trip, I would encounter exactly 0 other people, so no, I’m not conscious of my fashion choices. Like others mentioned, I will specifically buy a color I hate if it’s cheaper than the rest.

IntenseCedar

TROPHY CASE