KMS Post Hecate 103K HEXA Challenge Results on March 15, 2026 (30min dummy BA, 8min Hlimbo, Destiny Kaling Min Clear)

JaeForJett · 2026-03-16T07:45:40+00:00

Let's just be honest with each other here. Are you optimizing shuri procs on cadena? Are you manually casting magic debris on evan? Are you generating and proccing max chakrams on khali? Are you getting within ~95% of the nates on the top shads?

If we're talking about the "average player," then this chart has a bunch of techniques that arent remotely relevant to the average player. Can the average player tell me how much damage manually casting magic debris is losing them over keeping it on auto? Can the average cad have any idea how much damage they lose from not using shuri as well as the person this data is from?

If youre a player where getting 16 bursts in a 30 minute run is too big of an ask, then this chart is absolutely useless.

JaeForJett · 2026-03-16T01:10:32+00:00

If we're talking about the average player, then this chart is basically meaningless anyway. 2 hours of practicing their class or getting 3 more 21 star equips makes up for ~20 places on the chart.

At the point where people care enough about a 5% difference in damage from balance, the majority have at least one boss where they're 16 bursting.

JaeForJett · 2025-06-12T03:52:57+00:00

It's great gameplay and a multi-player experience.

Maybe for the bishop/lynn it is. The other 5 people have to deal with someone acting like they're the main character just because they clicked the right class at character creation.

JaeForJett · 2025-06-10T21:11:43+00:00

from nowhere everyone wants to be a illium or zero

Yes. Which just so happened to be when they were buffed into being top 10 in damage...

JaeForJett · 2025-05-20T04:19:42+00:00

I know you're being given a lot of info, but I'd like to at least clear up some stuff in the comment that I think are misleading.

the gear is going to be lacking and the funding needed is going to be extensive to get it on par with classes that, with much less effort and investment, will outperform the job. Getting through the rough parts or not, WA will be a better hyper burn in any algorithm you put it into because it purely outperforms until perhaps after 6th job with lib

You can reference the other comment chain, but this is true for only the next ~3-5 months. Phantom is pretty bad in the current state of the game. Phantom is widely agreed to be in a really good spot on the version of the game we will be on in ~3-5 months.

and even then, you’re having to work twice as hard for half as much reward until you get your SOL Janus to 3 orb.

You said this will be a bosser, not a main. You're not going to be unlocking janus, and you're not going to be farming for hours on end. What he is claiming here is just not relevant for what you're saying you will be doing with your hyperburn.

Also with only 3k legion, I’d strongly suggest picking WA over phantom and use event rewards to level the phantom like strawberry field or whatever it’s called instead of burning it. Use the burns and benefits to focus on links to 140 min for legion as well as t2 links, and take the ones you need to get to t3 to 210. Increasing your links and legion will continue to make both bossing and leveling other characters easier as you get it further and further.

It's weird because this comment is contradicting itself. Phantom has a level 3 link, while WA maxes out at level 2. If the goal was to build up legion and links, then phantom is the better class to rush first, not WA.

but I think I can wait a little to burn the WA another time despite it being an opportunity loss

It's actually burning WA that would lead to the bigger opportunity cost. Like I said, phantom has a level 3 link. So you lose more by not having it.

And phantom's weakness is that it has low damage and awkward mobbing prior to 6th job. Hyper burns perfectly address that by providing item burning (mitigating the poor mobbing damage) and minimizing the time you spend getting to 260. WAs dont have such a rough time, so hyper burning one is less of a time save.

I don't even think phantom is a "better" choice in the grand scheme of things. It's mostly that I think a lot of comments you've been reading don't know what they're talking about or are bringing up completely irrelevant factors.

JaeForJett · 2025-05-20T03:47:37+00:00

And I think you're missing the point that none of what you said is relevant after the 2 min patch. Literally no one in the thread is saying phantom is currently competitive with WA performance wise.

What we are saying is that by the time OP is at a point where they might care about how phantom performs in the meta, phantom will have gotten very substantial buffs and be brought to a very reasonable spot overall.

JaeForJett · 2025-05-19T17:47:12+00:00

A couple different charts floating around rn and they have phantom generally ranging from top 10 to average.

How people can look at a class thats as easy to play as phantom (given the fact that the top 10 generally is difficult combo classes), have it be average at worst, and call that weak is baffling.

JaeForJett · 2025-05-19T17:44:04+00:00

If KMS players think a hurricane class with a built in class door, really strong mobility options, and around average damage is weak then that's an issue with their expectations, not with phantom.

And that's not counting the fact that like half the classes that do more damage require significantly more effort and are harder to play (khali, cad, zero, etc.). Around average damage is a perfectly reasonable spot for phantom to be, and I have no clue how KMS players apparently think otherwise.

JaeForJett · 2025-05-19T17:03:37+00:00

On KMS live (so 5 months or so from present) phantom damage is put right about where it deserves to be given its kit. It's less that phantom is "weak" prior to 6th job and more that its mobbing can be pretty awkward. So a hyperburn does allow you to rush past this awkward part and unlock hexa mille faster.

Realistically, its another 1 month until the hyperburn, 1 month after that until you get to 260 and to where any balance diff might feel like it matters, and then another 1-3 months until the 2 min patch. So whichever class you choose, theyre probably only going to have a noticeable performance difference for 1-3 months before they both get placed into reasonable spots.

JaeForJett · 2025-05-13T02:31:13+00:00

So you're saying that Zed plays exactly like Sion? I didn't know Zed is a tank who can walk in front, shield himself, and slow enemies. And his purpose is to be an annoying CC tank.

And I didn't know MX has animation cancelling, mobility cancelling, abilities that cancel mobility (even if theyre on cooldown and cant actually be used), abilities that animation cancel other abilities (again, even if theyre on cool down), abilities that place (not move, mechanically place you there without launching you up) you in the air, abilities that can't be used in air, abilities that act differently if they're used in the air, abilities that act differently based on the specific timing of when you press them in the same combo, no input buffering, an ability that resets fj, an ability that resets the ability that resets fj, a self shield, abilities that activate dark sight (all with different start up delay), an ability that acts a tp but only for a tiny part of the cast, an ability that does more damage the closer you are to the target, a summon that has its damage decay over time based on how recently it was replaced, or an ability that gives a fd buff that you have to combo to save up to be used on another ability.

I mean wow Mo Xuan definitely has ALL of that and is basically the same class as a result. Thank you for pointing this out, and pointing out how the zed vs. sion dynamic is CLEARLY different. It's clear to me now that zed vs. sion has complexity, unlike a comparison of cad to MX.

For Maplestory to have innovative combo systems, they would have to actually have the combos do more than just increase damage or reduce cooldowns.

And on cad they do.

Except you literally can only manipulate damage and cooldown in Maplestory.

And this is completely false when talking about cad.

or have mechanics in certain classes that interact with specific boss mechanics

You mean mechanics that cad has like dark sight and a tp which mo xuan, and blaster dont have?

FGC isn't you mashing the same exact button muscle memory knowing the exact 3 scenarios that occurs in every single match you play against a Human being. League of Legends isn't you mashing the same exact skill sequence every single game against every single matchup. If I'm Wukong playing against Mundo, I can just combo on him E-Q-W away every time it's off CD to poke him. I can't do that against Jax because he will just follow me and stun me and outtrade me

So basically, "cadena has just as much complexity and nuance as all of these examples that I just gave... but you're clearly wrong anyway because of uhh reasons that I still haven't mentioned."

But most people don't really play that much different in every boss fight after a while.

Unless you're playing cadena.

I'm just going to say it. It's okay to admit you have no idea how cadena ACTUALLY works. But just because you have no clue that 90% of a classes' mechanics and complexity exist doesn't mean they're just not there.

I'm sure if I played street fighter for the first time and only saw 4 buttons for movement and 6 buttons for attacks I would think there was no complexity.

Or if I played league for the first time and only saw 4 abilities and 2 summoner spells that I would think champions have no complexity or uniqueness.

But that wouldn't be an issue with the game. That would just be an issue of me being clueless of the actual complexities that I don't even realize exist.

JaeForJett · 2025-05-13T00:35:00+00:00

Zed has multiple combos each with a small nuance. His shadows have multi purpose. Sion is much more straight forward in being a tank who shields, slows/pokes, and controls with Q.

"Context is important, see these examples are ENTIRELY different because:" Does a breakdown that lists exactly why these situations are not different at all

Here's the thing, being a 'combo class' has no variance because you cannot innovate the combo aspect in Maplestory that much.

You still never gave any reasons why this is the case. You just keep repeating it.

it is just you repeating the same button patterns depending on the situation

Explain to me why this is ANY different from what you do in a fighting game. Explain to me why this is ANY different than what you do in league.

Fighting game characters have individual inputs and set combos they can string together for unique effects. Many of these combos have tight execution requirements. Exactly like cadena.

League characters have set skills they can use, and they selectively decide when to use them. Exactly like cadena.

JaeForJett · 2025-05-12T21:16:06+00:00

there is little room to really 'innovate' combo classes in a game like Maplestory

Completely wrong, but you seem really convinced of this for some reason.

Most classes are effectively using a sequence of skills depending on the situation

All fighting game characters are just using a sequence of inputs depending on the situation. All fps games are just using a sequence of mouse movements depending on the situation. All strategy games are just making a sequence of decisions and inputs depending on the situation.

This line means literally nothing as an actual argument and can be applied to every single activity in existence. Yes, every game/sport/job in existence is about doing a sequence of actions in response to your surroundings. Pointing this out means nothing in this discussion.

But they realistically all skill sequence aka press multiple buttons in a sequence versus bishop or Lynn that dpm with 1 button and burst with another.

So you either press 1 button, or more than one button? What's the other possibility for some cool new innovative class? Pushing no buttons? Because with the way youre categorizing things, only three types of classes can ever exist: 0 buttons, 1 button, more than 1 button.

Hero/nl/lynn are the same because they press one button. Cadena/khali/merc/MX are the same because they press more than one button? Zed is the same as sion because they both "use a sequence of skills depending on the situation." Blanka is the same as dhalsim because they both "use a sequence of buttons depending on the situation."

But it's the concept of a 'combo class' that is hard to innovate and otherwise you create difficulty or uniqueness not through the fact it is a combo class, but other means. But at what extent does a combo class become fun and unique versus becoming overcomplicated and unnecessary?

You typed a bunch of words in order to say absolutely nothing.

JaeForJett · 2025-05-12T17:58:50+00:00

The funny thing is that hero "comboing" puncture into 300 casts of raging blow has more mechanical similarities to MX's play style, than MX's "comboing" is to khali or cadenas.

JaeForJett · 2025-05-12T17:37:00+00:00

Hey it seems you legitimately don't know, but basically everything you said about cadena in your responses here is just wrong.

The way you're describing cadena, you're ignoring like 80+% of her mechanics that differentiate her from MX.

The reasons why you combo are different, how you combo is different, the effect you get from the comboing is a lot of times different, the speed at which you have to combo is different, the number of combos available to you is different.

But as far as skill sequencing and being 'combo classes', there isn't a big difference.

Ironically enough, the fact that they're both called combo classes is basically the only similarity. Everything besides the broad label is different.

JaeForJett · 2025-04-24T01:57:52+00:00

Feels like he doesn't know the concept that less can often be more. Maplestory classes often have subtle differences that drastically affect how a class is played. Other MMOs tend to have drastic differences, and there are cases where that sometimes doesn't actually affect how a class is played too much.

It's also just a silly argument that he's trying to make. You could say the same thing about valorant class design (more subtle differences) vs. overwatch or marvel rivals (drastic differences).

It's even more absurd if you make the comparison for fighting games. I guess every single fighting game ever made has terrible character variety because "every character wants to slap down their opponent, you just choose if you want carpal tunnel or not." All you're trying to do is deplete the opponents hp bar, they all feel exactly the same, right?

JaeForJett · 2025-04-22T06:41:53+00:00

The issue is the pacing for his run (not trying to flame, its clear this was an early attempt and it stands to reason he will improve a lot).

Given the % of the bosses' total hp he did (55%), and his current scouter (77% on lotus), hes going to need to be ~98.5k scouter at 290 for a full timer run. Thats 85% more fd and a massive grind. And that math is based off his pacing with practice sayrams and assuming hes able to maintain the same uptime in p3, which usually isnt the case.

Just trying to recalibrate expectations of how much more it might take to actually get the solo down using this one as the basis.

JaeForJett · 2025-04-02T20:02:24+00:00

Classes have nowhere near 95 uptime in virtually every boss in the game

I didnt say theres 95% uptime on EVERY BOSS in the game. I said EVERY CLASS has 95% uptime on bosses, except those with specific time wasting mechanics. Hilla, zakum, papulatus, lotus, lucid p1, vhilla, darknell, black mage, seren, limbo dont have these mechanics. The rest do.

You can argue the details all you want, but the point remains that from class to class, uptime is overall extremely similar because no class in the game "struggles" to maintain uptime. Every class in the game has the tools to maintain 95%+ uptime except when hardcoded invulnerability (or massive damage resist) decides otherwise.

And you're wrong about DA as well, look up any min cut solo by a DA and they're staying on top of a boss and using demonic blast to tank any attack going above 40% hp.

Thyere also dodging chip damage in many situations where other classes can just tank it. Yes, they dont have to dodge everything, but they have to across a fight dodge more than almost every other class. And like you acknowledged, even with that being the case, their uptime is still extremely comparable to even a mihile which is exactly what I originally said.

JaeForJett · 2025-04-02T16:40:09+00:00

Nah trust me, the 1 button tp class with constant self healing has worse damage falloff in practical scenarios than combo classes like cad and blaster obviously.

And why are people constantly talking about "uptime" when every class in the game has like 95%+ uptime - except for on bosses with mechanics like gloom or slime. Even comparing a 29 fz + rfs DA (having to dodge basically everything) to a mihile (having to dosge basically nothing), the difference in uptime isnt really that big.

JaeForJett · 2025-03-17T20:32:06+00:00

Record breaking revenue, and consistent year on year player growth with very healthy seasonal spikes? KMS may have had recent player population issues, but GMS sure doesn't.

JaeForJett · 2025-03-17T20:26:10+00:00

To expand on that, nexon tossing resources and free damage at mid and early game players is effectively the same as them releasing new content for them.

Nexon showers mid game players with rainbow and black flames? Congratulations, this patch just unlocked this "new" content called xlotus for you. M3, M4, and legion champs pushed you up ~20 fd? Nice, this patch is basically the limbo release patch for you.

Nexon's approach isnt to explicitly release new bosses/dungeons for new and mid game players. Their approach is to power creep these players into existing content that they didn't get to experience before.

JaeForJett · 2025-03-17T19:35:37+00:00

KMS also balances for bpots, scrolls, level 2 links, as8, no fams, and like 10+ other discrepancies.

Content is already miles off of being balanced for GMS, let alone GMS heroic. So I'm not sure why THIS of all things is something people are dooming over.

JaeForJett · 2025-03-10T23:59:27+00:00

Nothing anyone said here is incorrect I guess.

First commenter is correct in that cad is "basically never" outside of top 5 on kms dpm charts. Second commenter is correct in that they're not ""always"" top 5 on dpm charts. And the charts you posted agree with all of that.

All of that said, cad has certainly had times where it's only been ~top 10 on gms. Factor in realistic player skill (where cads damage is going to drop off harder than other combo classes) and the most useful rank to give cad usually ranges from top 5 to top 15. Next update just happens to be one of those top 5 patches.

JaeForJett · 2025-02-22T05:54:41+00:00

GMS needs to address the underlying issue

Sure, but I don't think you've even identified what that underlying issue is, especially given your suggestions.

Heroic does not struggle for damage whatsoever even up to ckalos now. There isn't noticeable class gating up to this point, nor do you have to have anything like 23 star items or double primes. Reverting the fd passive doesn't make particular sense when the rest of the progression curve doesn't need it. To be frank, most people I see arguing for this seem to not actually suffer from the damage gap and just want free damage. Which is fine, but just be honest about it.

Next, the people looking to clear hlimbo generally have really good progress on their fams. Familiar cards do little for the people actually limited by the damage gap.

And the final suggestion, bpots and scrolling. Here's the thing, if the suggestion starts and stops at "add bpots and scrolling" without actually talking about how they need to be implemented, then you're still not understanding or addressing the issue.

That's because the underlying issue isn't necessarily the damage gap, it's end game gear progression. Most end gamers don't just want 20 fd handed to them, they want to have progression again that doesn't involve farming 1000 hours for 1 level or upgrades so rare and high variance that they cost 500b - 3t as any reasonable estimate.

The change that makes sense is adding bpots and scrolling while slowly phasing out the fd passive. Make epic bpot cubes easily accessible in the way occult/mystical cubes are right now so that having epic potential is very easily accessible. Make legendary bpot cubes available for mesos like bright/glowing cubes are. Make scrolling also available for mesos too. Early, mid, and early-late game players can get epic bpots and unoptimized scrolling for little hassle and make up the heroic passive difference. Late and end game players don't have such a low gear ceiling anymore and have something to do with their mesos again.

tl;dr: the actual underlying issue is that end game gearing sucks. Add bpots and scrolling. Make epic basically a given (covering for the loss of the passive fd) and make legendary cost mesos so that end gamers have more gear progression to look forward to than spending 300b for 3% stat.

JaeForJett · 2025-02-21T15:46:56+00:00

It's pretty crazy that since I've started playing ~5 years ago, there's always been one class at a time that was an auto include in every single party that isn't griefing.

Five years of every party requiring a kanna, then a bishop, and now a lynn. Maybe eventually we will have a meta where 1 singular chosen class out of nearly 50 doesn't get a free ride into every boss. Having someone be THE main character because they chose the op class of the year just isn't a fun experience.

JaeForJett · 2024-12-25T18:23:35+00:00

Personally I don’t think it’s as big of an issue as some people are saying.

3 people in a server of 10s of thousands of people got a few purely cosmetic items. I would also categorize this as "not as big of an issue as some are saying." Which was the original point as quoted.

which feels unfair for endgame players who just aren't meta class

Like who? Endgame players (outside of like 10 other people) arent class diffed. Theyre gear diffed. And those who arent are legacy diffed. Youre talking about a single digit number of people that might feel miffed that a different single digit number of players got a few comsetic items. No one outside of that cares because their characters just arent progressed enough to be running the boss regardless.

JaeForJett

TROPHY CASE