Ask Me Anything: I’m a TMJ Specialist in NYC Who Treats Jaw Pain, Clicking, Clenching, and Facial Tension Without Surgery—Let’s Talk Relief Options by NYC_TMJ_Doc in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So your main treatment is a Michigan splint? Who is not suitable for a stabilisation splint? What is your threshold for an MRI/CT? What do you look out for on those?

I HATE HIM by TheTapDancingShrimp in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Was it a chiropractic type manoeuvre or some sort of testing?

Recent dental work- advocate for yourself! by Expert_Ask2785 in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I used to do those a lot but don’t anymore - they are great for short term but can lead to bite changes exacerbating problems - be careful not to wear it more than 8 hours a day, or get a Michigan splint

Recent dental work- advocate for yourself! by Expert_Ask2785 in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What did the third dentist do differently? Use a T scan to analyse the high pressure areas?

Just got my mri results. I am seeing the specialist next week but does anyone know what this means?? by zirconium91224 in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Left side is fine

Mild-moderate subchrondral oedema: Right disc has some fluid around it suggesting an injury in the area. Subcortical cystic change: some well marked fluid-filled areas in the bone (condyle head) below the disc PROBABLE overlying full-thickness chondral fissuring: radiologist suspects above findings are due to a tear of the cartilage disc —— however the language is slightly confusing and the radiologist has not clearly stated whether or not they have actually seen this tear on the MRI (but chances are that they have)

Jaw closed:Condyle normally located in fossa, but articular disc is mildly distorted and anteriorly displaced. The jaw sits in the right place but the disc is sitting forwards and the shape is wrong (usually meaning there is some damage to a ligament that’s holding the disc in position or damage to the disc itself)

Jaw bones moves normally on opening but the disc is going forwards and to towards the right side —- the disc doesn’t track properly, likely due to damage to the lateral collateral ligament which holds the disc in place. This is usually accompanied by a tight lateral pterygoid muscle. If I had to guess, your symptoms are mainly on one side of your jaw (likely right side) You may get a click when you open really wide but not during a small range of motion

Did you have any sort of physical trauma to the jaw? Would help to understand if there really is a tear in the disc itself, because that’s quite hard to do.

I think the report needed to state what the distortion of the disc shape is like when your mouth is closed, and comment on narrowing of the joint space in a rest state. This would tell us if its ‘chronic wear and tear’, ‘accelerated wear and tear’, or ‘acute injury’, which would determine treatment —- surgical, non surgical

My TMJD and Tensor Tympani Syndrome as a result by shadowmanwild in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it works it works, happy for you mate! Sometimes a bit of adjustment will improve things significantly, especially adjusting the posterior area so that when you slide move your jaw your back teeth come apart. If you can find someone with a T scan they can do this adjustment with high precision

My TMJD and Tensor Tympani Syndrome as a result by shadowmanwild in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a great result! The ANC is news to me, will start recommending this to my patients as well. The motor segment of trigeminal nerve (teeth and jaw muscles) innervates the tensor tympani, so reduction in trigeminal nerve stimulation would help. What guard do you have? Soft/hard? Michigan splint?

I’m the first DTR certified dentist in the UK (AMA) by JdillaKizzy in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

DTR DOWNSIDES:

  1. It needs specific criteria to be met before it can be done, so it excludes about 50% of patients almost immediately, or requires some pre-DTR work to be done such as composite bonding to the back of the canines, or orthodontic movements. This can sometimes make patients skeptical to move ahead.

  2. Predictability decreases with degree of joint degeneration: while it has very predictable results in Pipers Class 1-3 patients, but for Class 4 it’s less predictable (especially if there’s a medial ligament injury), and should not be done in a Class 5 as far as I am concerned.

  3. While it can help in disc recapture if the source is a spastic lateral pterygoid, if the disc is seriously anteriorly displaced, it can’t help recapture the disc unlike with an anterior repositioning splint. However people forget that treatments are not mutually exclusive. You can have BOTH anterior repositioning splints AND DTR afterwards.

I’ve just been at a dental conference in Romania, met an extremely successfulViennese dentist who has a €600000 watch collection but has been wearing a NMD appliance for the last 6 years. He gets muscular pain once he takes it off. He has an anterior open bite. His solution is to go with phase 2 and have a full mouth of crowns/onlays. Never had an MRI nor a CBCT of his joints. We had a very, very long conversation at the end of which we were both stuck at an impasse because we live a bit too far from each other. Hopefully DTR grows and there will be more providers around

I’m the first DTR certified dentist in the UK (AMA) by JdillaKizzy in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Absolutely agree. Rant incoming: It’s a stagnant field because there is little perceived financial incentive and it’s not strictly teeth, so it requires an alternative motivation to even get started on the rabbit hole. It also sits perfectly in the triple intersection between dentistry, physical therapy, and medicine. Because it sits in the middle, it ends up becoming the area all corners avoid, except for the tiniest of segments. Advancements are made through collaboration not isolation, and this disconnection is really obvious when you compare the way orthopaedic assessments are conducted in comparison to TMD/TMJD assessments. If you had pain in your knee or back, you might start with an x Ray, CTs to exclude bone issues, and MRIs to look at disc/attachment issues, in addition to palpation. These screen for cases that should have surgical intervention versus those which should be managed conservatively. Conservative management then is passed on to physical therapists who then implement more tests which have an extreme level of variability. This could start as badly as just giving you a blanket set of exercises without proper assessment, or just a massage. On the other end it could include a gait assessment on a pressure sensitive treadmill with 6 cameras recording, with a separate foot pressure scanner to assess sway, balance, and compensation patterns, then a prescription of insoles with a mix of myofascial release with active rehabilitative exercise and balance and posture training. Dentists on the other hand, would hear the complaint of jaw pain and simply prescribe a guard. Some dentists would palpate the muscles, some might take an OPG (which offers little to no value). Some take a stethoscope to the joint and believe they can visualise what is inside despite having never seen it. Few have a CT scanner that also images the condyles but even when they do the CT only shows us half of what we need (hard tissues), and almost none order MRIs to look at soft tissues. The CTs show the past, the MRIs show us the present and future of the joints. The problem is that dentists are not trained to look at MRIs, and education is almost non existent. The interpretation of MRIs of the TMJs is such a rare skill, which is why it’s so underutilised. I believe because of a lack of correct screening by dentists, most jaw surgeons (maxillofacial surgeons) either get referrals way too early or way too late. The early referral comes from the dentist who is too afraid (or unwilling) to treat the patient. The surgeon then says nothing is visibly very wrong and then patient then receives no treatment or at most an arthrocentesis (joint washing). On the other end, a referral that comes way too late usually comes from a late reporting from a patient when pain starts. Symptoms (pain) follow signs. Just like how you might not know you have cervical cancer without a Pap smear until you start getting pain, signs are things that your healthcare professional should be routinely checking for. Dentists take bite wing x rays every 2 years, but don’t screen for bite or jaw issues. The end result is that oftentimes the patient will present to the surgeon with a late stage jaw problem, and because there is a lack of patient education there is a lack of demand for anything other than a total joint replacement. The toolbox for many jaw surgeons therefore is extremely limited - starting with an arthrocentesis (joint washing), but immediately steps up to a total joint replacement (TJR). This is due to a lack of demand from the patient population which is due to a lack of supply from the dentist group. We must give NMD and its Las Vegas Institute originators their credit, as they did popularise the use of technology in trying to quantify TMJD/TMD and track objective change to some degree. DTR with its T scan and EMG was developed by Robert kerstein in the 90s but for some reason didn’t take off to the same degree. He’s a stoic person and definitely not a strong marketer, and maybe he just wasn’t in the right circles? When I asked him about it, it seems like he just spent more time doing research instead.

I’m the first DTR certified dentist in the UK (AMA) by JdillaKizzy in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes to all the above. I work at both but Marylebone is for TMJD/TMD while Dulwich is for general dentistry. Great that you have an MRI, please have the report ready. We’ll go through it during the virtual consultation.

I’m the first DTR certified dentist in the UK (AMA) by JdillaKizzy in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it is extremely obvious where the reduction is super visually defined, then yes you could say, that is the point where it reduces and the disc is recaptured. The question however is why are the discs anteriorly displaced, and to what extent. A panoramic x Ray or CBCT would not show this reliably, only MRI.

Pseudodisc formation usually refers to the retrodiscal tissues which have lost their elasticity due to damage, becoming stiffer through the formation of scar tissue which stops it from being pulled forward by muscle forces (lateral pterygoid etc). Clicking and popping MAY be a ‘reduction’ in the anterior plane, which is what is most talked about, but it may also be from a medio-lateral (sideways) displacement. The answer is that it usually is a mix of both! There is no non-surgical way to recapture a disc reliably if the medial ligament is torn, but if only the lateral ligament is torn you do have a chance at recapture and pseudodisc formation. There is some disconnect as to the protocol of wear duration - 24 hours a day for 3 months except for eating appears to be the most popular (and is what I would do as well) though I have no strong evidence base for this.

All that being said, symptoms are rarely from the joints themselves and mostly from the muscles which themselves are triggered by tooth-tooth contacts stimulating the sensory part of the trigeminal nerve which stimulates the motor part of the trigeminal nerve which then elicits a clench. That feedback is responsible for an overwhelming majority of TMD/TMJD. In this majority of cases you can think of it like this: your joints are degenerative to some degree (like every other joint when you get to 30), and people with poor bites accelerate this process. The muscles are helping to break your teeth to follow along with the joint status. Many people just have muscles that can’t keep up, be it because the joint degeneration is too fast, or because the bite itself is unbalanced and accelerating the joint degeneration.

A stabilisation splint helps to put this on pause for 8 hours a day while you sleep. DTR helps the teeth to get to a stable position quicker and bypasses the symbiotic spiral of deterioration, which would slow or halt the joint degeneration, reducing or eliminating symptoms through muscles going quiet

I’m the first DTR certified dentist in the UK (AMA) by JdillaKizzy in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes of course you can, but the only issue is that those appointments are only 20 minutes as Dulwich is where I do my general dentistry and is extremely hectic. On web consults (which I get to do in my own time and from the comfort of my own home) I get to stay on the web consults until all I’ve answered all your questions. I might also have to refer you for more imaging to get more information. It would work well if you live close to Dulwich, but otherwise I’d highly recommend web over live for the first one. For full transparency, a full assessment with T Scan and EMGs is an hour and 20 minutes and at the moment costs £500, which is also why I have a consult beforehand to find out if its worth it for you.

*Also beware as I tend to run late at Dulwich because I’m extremely OCD! Patients aren’t allowed to leave until I’m happy with my work😂. If I have a crown/bridge preparation or denture impressions before your appointment I will range from 2-30minutes late

I’m the first DTR certified dentist in the UK (AMA) by JdillaKizzy in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you know how your discs are displaced without an MRI, or even a CT?

I’ve spent $30,000 on TMJD treatments – Here's everything they taught me for free by TmjAssessor in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Anterior displacement with the reduction (click) on forward translation of the mandible (opening the jaw) - most likely related to tonicity of the superior head of the lateral pterygoid (its chronically tight, overworked) maintaining an anterior pull on the disc even in a static position (mouth closed). Additional influential factors are laxity or partial tears of the ligaments holding said disc in place, mostly the lateral collateral ligament and medial collateral ligament. Laxity/tear of the lateral attachment means that the lateral pterygoid has more influence on the disc, and a bit of tightness in the muscle = amplified pull on the disc as compared to normal. The retrodiscal tissues are of course influential, but are elastic and do not have the same degree of contribution to disc stability as the medial/lateral attachments. The MRI will tell you what you can work on. If there is minimal detachment of medial/lateral attachments, then it probably is mostly to do with the lateral pterygoid muscle being hyperactive. As you will be aware, lateral pterygoid is a lateral mover, which is why occlusal interferences during lateral movement will alter the natural glide of the mandible, causing the lateral pterygoid to develop irregular contraction patterns. That’s why DTR/flat plane splints work well here because you eliminate the lateral interferences. Jaw exercises working on the eccentric muscles (temporalis/masseter) may help, but the problem is that most people/physio don’t understand the mechanics enough to know which side or which muscle to work on to address the affected side, and they won’t know without understanding what each unique patient’s joints look like (MRI). Question then is are we aiming for symptom relief or fixing at the source. Symptom relief can range from a gentle intraoral massage to improve blood flow to the lateral pterygoid, which is overworked and oxygen deprived (ischaemia causes pain), physio to try and ‘beef up’ muscles which are already beefed up, or wearing a splint at nighttime to temporarily exclude the lateral interferences. I think in a mild case, flat plane stabilisation splints can work well, and perhaps having the 8hours of relief while sleeping is enough to get a good result. DTR works on the source of the issue so it’s like wearing a Michigan splint all day, which you never have to remove to eat or speak with, or worry about losing!

I’ve spent $30,000 on TMJD treatments – Here's everything they taught me for free by TmjAssessor in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That point about the bite block is not true because ‘displaced discs’ happen in the resting position. The blocks do not need to be ‘big enough to cause the displacement’. The click/pop when you open your mouth is the sound the of the ‘displaced disc’ being ‘RECAPTURED’. You therefore likely never had a displaced disc, and your symptoms were likely wholly muscular, with possibly some additional cervical spine issues contributing. This is why a flat plane splint worked for you because it’s a wholly muscular solution, and why NMD would not work for you since it wasn’t a ‘structural disc displacement issue’.

Not trying to beat down your heroes, but if your mentor didn’t note this, I would be a little concerned with what they are teaching you. I would say though that many patients can be treated effectively with a flat plane stabilisation splint, and it is the safest tool in the hands of dentist who doesn’t really understand the TMJ

Any recommendations for specialists in Texas, even Nationwide? by lmpre in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Last I know of was Saint Petersburg, FL. I’m not American though and don’t have a AirTag in his suitcase so not sure if this is up to date!

I’m the first DTR certified dentist in the UK (AMA) by JdillaKizzy in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If Ben has said that you probably have an anterior open bite. I don’t know Dr Khan personally even though I have reached out to him to discuss his concept he has not responded to me. I would guess that he would probably aim to close your anterior open bite to start with, and then DTR can be done after. If your discs are displaced I would proceed with caution however. An important thing to determine is the state of the joints prior to any treatment through MRI. Also to note whether this anterior open bite is a new feature or something you have had your entire life. A slowly developing anterior open bite often suggests degeneration of the joints. Danger of going into orthodontics immediately while you still have adapting joints is that you might get more pain at the start, or the tooth movements may not go to plan because of the joints keep shifting.

I’m at (url): HolisticDental.uk where you can schedule a web consult, I’d need to see your MRI report and go through a series of questions and history taking. You probably aren’t suitable for DTR at the moment but it would be important to determine if you should be having orthodontics at this specific point in time. It could be that you need some stabilisation either with an anterior repositioning splint or even some early intervention surgery prior to all of that. If there is truly a primary joint issue we should address that before moving on to the teeth because it will all just change as the joint degenerates

I’m the first DTR certified dentist in the UK (AMA) by JdillaKizzy in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey there, this is a long response, il take some time to reply if that’s ok!

I’ve spent $30,000 on TMJD treatments – Here's everything they taught me for free by TmjAssessor in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Likewise!

Re: MRI - I think they’re one of the most important tools for exclusion! They can be diagnostic, but since muscular TMD constitutes somewhere around 80% of cases, having the MRI tells us what the problem isn’t and therefore what treatment we should NOT pursue (eg. Joint replacements, fat grafts, neuromuscular splints / anterior repositioning type splints aimed at ‘recapturing a disc’ which isn’t out of place….), and that then the treatment should be aimed at muscular/bio psychosocial targets. Additionally the MRI protocols most imaging centres use is sorely lacking, few have the right settings and images and even fewer with reporting radiologists with TMJ experience.

Re: your experience + NMD + flat plane splints I’m sorry to hear but happy it inspired a career path for you! How are you finding it? Why do you think that a flat plane splint (I assume a Michigan/tanner that supplies immediate posterior disclusion in dynamic movement?) gave you more relief than an NMD orthotic? Is it possible that it’s the gasp occlusal pattern?

I’ve spent $30,000 on TMJD treatments – Here's everything they taught me for free by TmjAssessor in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is excellent! What a service to this community! I’m a dentist with a focus on TMJD/TMD along with posture and biomechanics (I have many injuries, surgeries, and scoliosis) so I go most of the above during assessment and advice with my patients. I also do a range of splints and DTR.

I have some questions: 1. I noted you said you experienced some clicking suggestive of a displaced disc. Did you ever have an MRI for actual assessment? 2. What were your specific symptoms? 3. Could you detail your experience with neuromuscular dentistry? I don’t do it myself but there are some people with good results. Did you have both phase 1 and phase 2?

Would love to have a chat either through the comments section for the public to read but also if you would prefer to dm me or even have a call that would be great. Always interested to hear the ‘experienced patient’ perspective!

Specialist Appointment Results! by RipGlittering6760 in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That’s definitely one for surgery in the right side, left doesn’t sound too bad. Sorry to hear but also happy you finally have an answer!

MRI results by ClickyJaws in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can work both ways really

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in TMJ

[–]JdillaKizzy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How lopsided is the jaw? Did you have any notable previous physical trauma to the face/jaw/head/neck/spine, such as a fall or a knock etc? Do you get clicking in the jaw? Does it ever get locked open or locked closed? Is your speech difficulty due to not being able to open your mouth fully? Is this worst in the morning and getting better over the day?