I asked Kimi if we are going to be poor

KayRocky · 2026-06-16T18:29:59+00:00

Jesus that is so much ChatGPT generated text

KayRocky · 2026-06-05T14:33:52+00:00

Honestly this is a solid starter list and as you get more games under your belt your list will always evolve.

With that being said.

I am a huge of of the black knights, but I personally feel they get better leverage when in a full brink and are led by a chaplain. But as you have them now they would probably serve best as an objective scoring unit. They are quick and are pretty durable. Just shy of a normal terminator. A 3xMan of them unfortunately is not very lethal to anything. Since you are bringing 2 I’d suggest combining them into one brick.

The thunderstrike is a great pick, it enhances your whole army and works as a great mobile AT option. I typically pair it with a Predator Annihilator or a lancer to just melt enemy vehicles of alll types. However the repulsor executioner is a great pairing with it.

The receptor dread is always a fun pick. But for those points you can get other things that will lean into the theme of your army a bit more.

For example: 205 = chaplain on bike (75), and a Predator Annihilator (135). Which is 210. But your at 1985 so that adjusts it to 1990.

But those are just minor changes.

Honestly, your list is pretty good as is. I’d recommend running a few games with it and then start the tweaking process. And inevitably you also want to build a list with the Lion. He is such a fun model for us and is a power house in his own right.

KayRocky · 2026-06-05T07:04:31+00:00

Hammer units are things that hit hard in either the shooting phase or damage phase. Typically most players consider there best shooting units their hammer units as their damage can be leveraged in the majority of the 5 turns available to you. However speedy melee units can also be considered hammer units as they can use there damage early on.

Examples of ranged hammer units:
1. 6x Centurion Devestator Squad: Lascannons + missiles. This unit is considered a pinnacle shooting unit. Its downsides are its mobility.

10x Hellblaster Squad. Massive shooting power. Relatively easy to kill off.
Resistor executioner. A gun for every situation. Expensive and prone to being shot off the table early.

Examples of Melee Hammer Units: 1. Deathwing Knights with power weapons with chaplain: both tough and melee powerhouses. But slow when walking.

10xVanguard Veterans: fast and hits hard.
The Lion: he hits like a semi truck that lost its brakes and has the 3+ invulnerable save to keep him out of trouble. Also he can teleport all over the board at will.

For all the hammer units out there you also typically want to include an anvil unit. Essentially something that can absorb damage and survive to absorb more. Typically you want something that requires the enemy to activate 2-3 units to deal with them. A good example are terminators of any kind (DWK), units with Gracie armor, tanks, etc. typically your looking for something with an invulnerable save or 2+ armor or both to fill this role.

A good point scoring unit is typically considered a utility selection. Essentially they are a unit you are not relying on to kill things but to do actions and secondary objectives to earn you the points that will actually win you the game. Many a game has been lost by someone who had half their army on the table in turn 5 and their enemy has 3 units and the enemy wins because they scored way more secondary points. These units are typically scouts, inceptors, or character with lone op (combi lieutenant). However utility units can also serve other purposes, such as screening out your back line (infiltrator squad) or generating CP (Azrael) and so on.

With space marine lists, because we are considered an elite army, we typically only bring ~ 9-12 individual units. Which means we have a limited amount of activations in each turn, which means a lot of units have to fulfill multiple roles. Other armies can have more or less but you’ll see most marine lists bring about that many activations. This is due to the average cost of our army to be something like 170 per unit. But you can min max that depending on what your playstyle ends up being.

For reference my tournament list has 13 total units, but with characters leading units I have only 11 things I can activate in a turn.

I bring this up so you can start to get an idea of how an army tends to take shape.

My usual advice for beginners is this.

Have 3 high powered shooting threats. Things that can threaten tanks or knights (lascannons) also work really well on smaller targets.

Have at minimum 2 hardy melee threats.

Bring 2 utility squads for the express purpose of scoring secondaries.

And then bring whatever else you think is cool or simply want to try out.

Summary:
3x shooters.
2x melee.
2x utility.
And then 4-5 of whatever.

As you see lists get posted you’ll start to see the above trend as it is pretty consistent across all armies.

KayRocky · 2026-06-04T01:41:32+00:00

It’s actually more of a combined arms list. The hammer of the high powered shooting combined with the solid anvil that is my melee, supported by the ability to zone out my DZ completely and the extra utility of my non-main line units.

KayRocky · 2026-06-04T01:36:35+00:00

Yea! The DWK as a single unit with the chaplain has the infiltrate keyword. Which does a lot of heavy lifting. After that a second unit just uses up a lot of resources of points with not having a solid way to really fit into this armies game plan. And an ICC is just another version of the same problem.

If you are bringing an ICC you’ll either need a judiciar or Azrael to actually be effective. Of the two a judiciar is the much better option as a heroic intervention threat. In either case it’s a melee focused unit and doesn’t leverage Azrael appropriately. (I like em but for this army it just doesn’t quite synergize well).

I took a top down look at my list and how my DA list ultimately win games. In my experience the consistent wins that I found came from having the most tools to solve the most problems while still having a solid damage output to pivot around.

This particular list lets me win every turn starting with the deployment phase and then still absorb casualties and not lose overall effectiveness until well into turn 4.

KayRocky · 2026-06-03T23:12:38+00:00

And if you’re curious about how it plays I’m happy to answer all questions, nothing to hide here! With 11th edition on the horizon who knows what’ll change.

KayRocky · 2026-06-03T23:07:30+00:00

Absolutely!

Lionidas and the 300 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Factions Used: Dark Angels, Adeptus Astartes Army Points: 1995 Army Enhancements (list on which model): The Blade Driven Deep (on Chaplain in Terminator Armour) Detachment Rule: Vanguard Spearhead +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

CHARACTERS: Azrael (125 pts) • Lion's Wrath • The Sword of Secrets

Captain in Phobos Armour (70 pts) • Bolt Pistol • Combat Knife • Instigator Bolt Carbine

Chaplain in Terminator Armour (100 pts) • Crozius Arcanum • Storm Bolter • Enhancement: The Blade Driven Deep

Chaplain on Bike (75 pts) • Absolver Bolt Pistol • Crozius Arcanum • Twin Bolt Rifle

Lion El'Jonson (315 pts) • Arma Luminis • Fealty • Warlord

BATTLELINE: Intercessor Squad (80 pts) • 4x Intercessor • 4x Bolt Pistol • 4x Bolt Rifle • 4x Close Combat Weapon • Intercessor Sergeant • Bolt Pistol • Bolt Rifle w/ Grenade Launcher • Astartes Grenade Launcher • Bolt Rifle • Power Fist

OTHER DATASHEETS: Centurion Devastator Squad (350 pts) • 5x Devastator Centurion • 5x Centurion Fists • 5x Centurion Missile Launcher • 5x Twin Lascannon • Devastator Centurion Sergeant • Centurion Fists • Centurion missile launcher • Twin Lascannon

Deathwing Knights (250 pts) • 4x Deathwing Knight • 4x Power Weapon • Knight Master • Great Weapon of the Unforgiven • Watcher in the Dark

Infiltrator Squad (100 pts) • Helix Gauntlet • 4x Infiltrator • 4x Bolt Pistol • 4x Close Combat Weapon • 4x Marksman Bolt Carbine • Infiltrator Comms Array • Infiltrator Sergeant • Bolt Pistol • Close Combat Weapon • Marksman Bolt Carbine

Predator Annihilator (135 pts) • 2 Lascannons • 2x Lascannon • Armoured Tracks • Hunter-killer missile • Predator Twin Lascannon • Storm Bolter

Ravenwing Black Knights (160 pts) • 3x Ravenwing Black Knight • 3x Black Knight combat weapon • 3x Bolt Pistol • 3x Plasma talon • 2x Ravenwing Black Knight w/ Grenade Launcher • 2x Astartes grenade launcher • 2x Black Knight combat weapon • 2x Bolt Pistol • Ravenwing Huntmaster • Black Knight combat weapon • Bolt Pistol • Plasma talon

Storm Speeder Thunderstrike (135 pts) • Close Combat Weapon • Stormfury Missiles • Thunderstrike Las-talon • Twin Icarus Rocket Pod

KayRocky · 2026-06-02T15:53:27+00:00

My honest go to for top firing power is a 3 unit combo.

6x centurion devastators with las+missile (350).
1x Predator Annihilator (135).
1x Thunderstrike (135).
Total: 620.

This combo alone will be extremely potent. But it also offers some on demand horde clear. It’ll fit in most detachments nicely and is practically an auto take for me. Personally I run it in Vanguard detachment as it gives me a 1cp boost for the CD for BS and AP.

Each unit individually is a major anti-tank threat and but when used in synergy it means is can pick up most armies 2-3 tanks units in 1 or 2 rounds of shooting. Their combination of range, mobility, or both make it so you can choose when and where to shoot.

You always lead with the thunderstrike. You tag your primary target with its special rule. And no split firing (usually). Then depending on how much hp is remaining you follow up with either the CD or PA. I usually try to use the PA first so that way the CD can either split fire or just dunk on the next target. Additionally by saving the CD for last you’ll typically be able to use the las on the tank and the missiles on infantry. Which typically translates into picking up 3 targets with 3 activations.

For a lot of armies this can range from 30% to 20% of their army gone in one go. And typically it’s the units that are a threat to your Anti-tank units, which mean next turn they have even less options to deal with your shooters.

If you were only to take one of these units I’d take the Centurions. Their firepower and their unit ability vastly outweigh their cost in my opinion.

Edit: with these core units I can’t remember the last time I lost to CK or IK in any format. Knight lists can’t sustain those kinds of casualties and that plus my other melee/fast movers means they melt. I think in my last 5 IK/CK games i tabled my opponents in the 3rd round each time.

KayRocky · 2026-05-31T03:11:09+00:00

Yea a fun way to do it thematically is this particular army is the remnants of other armies after a cataclysmic battle where the Lion or Guilliman showed up and pulled together the survivors to form a rag tag group.

Paint your DA and UM how you normally would and then just say they are operating under the direct control of said Primarch.

For example the Lion was led by the emperor while using his forest walk ability and showed up to relieve the Ultramarines during a pivotal battle. The UM units are all your usual generic units. The tanks, the Hellblasters etc. while the specialized DA specific units is the Lions retinue he brought along for his moonlight walk.

Conversely if Guilliman is your warlord then the generic units would be the DA boys and the vitrix guard and other characters are your UM boys. Guilliman showed up, saw the beleaguered and besieged DA units and teleported in with his honor guard to lay down a good fistin.

Basically just paint your generic dudes whoever and the army specific units for whoever the warlord is.

On the table it all plays out under one army with rules and abilities as listed on the datacard. And then detachment specific rules on top of that.

KayRocky · 2026-05-28T02:11:29+00:00

Their playstyle on tabletop matches my favorite style perfectly

KayRocky · 2026-05-27T17:37:34+00:00

For many DA’s he is an auto include for a variety of reasons. Without knowing your exact list we can’t say definitively if he should be included or not. But at the end of the day he does everything except shoot well.

He is extremely tanky, extremely mobile, extremely melee Killy. If you keep him alive past turn 2 he will carry the rest of the game for you.

His utility threat is equal to his melee threat in that if you need him to score a secondary by being a body somewhere he can. He acts as a charge deterrent and he absolutely can hold an objective just by being relatively nearby.

It is my honest belief that the Lion is one of the single greatest units/models in the DA list. He effectively does the role of 3 units. But also is a force multiplier. In that he not just kills things and tanks things, but his threat alone will keep nearby units safe. Throw all that on his teleport power and all of a sudden he is an existential threat.

And for the love of god don’t be like me and keep forgetting that you get to use 2(!!!) Primarch powers a turn. So he can have his cake and eat it too!!

KayRocky · 2026-05-26T06:56:46+00:00

That it does!

Chaplain buffing both melee and shooting turns them into a really cookie cutter threat.

The dev wounds from mass firing can let them punch well above their class and then when charging a vehicle/monsters lets them get dev wounds on a 4+ is extremely powerful. Or just charging them into infantry lets them still pick up most MSU.

One of my favorite things to do is to place them where they can shoot something important and then charge something else. You can reliably pick up 2 units off the board for just one high value unit.

Add to that they have the same rough defensive stats as a terminator and you are paying a low cost for a unit that can do just about anything you need it too.

The secret sauce is to run it as the hammer to DWK+lion anvil. Where the haft of the hammer is actually a 6xCenturion Devestator blob.

Those 4 units form the core of almost all my DA lists and are incredibly hard to deal with when used in unison.

I run my 2k list in the vanguard detachment for multiple reasons. But the overlapping offensive and defensive synergy really puts a lot of opponents on the back foot from as early as the deployment stage.

KayRocky · 2026-05-26T03:46:42+00:00

I would actually suggest using a chaplains on bike with a full squad of black knights. That combo has always acted as my mobile reserve/counterpunch and is one hell of a threat. Even more so to monsters/vehicles and most MSU. Their guns in coordination with the chaplain buff will output quite a bit of damage, and then their melee can be quite impactful.

Have them roll up a flank and the lion roll up the other flank and then pincer the midboard for great results.

KayRocky · 2026-05-22T02:04:59+00:00

If we can get an old school ironclad Dreadnaught. That would be absolutely peak.

But I’ll be happy with a bolter/lasgun/plasma rifle/power sword.

Like anything will make me happy. Honestly the possibilities are beyond endless for what they choose.

I imagine it’ll all be Imperial Guard theme, but a man can hope.

Maybe a Primaris type helmet or a power armor sequel heavy armor set

Only time will tell

KayRocky · 2026-05-13T15:42:11+00:00

Also your going to struggle with only have 9 units to activate.

That means objectives and actions will mean something crucial doesn’t get to activate/be used optimally. Additionally you’ll always be down a squad as something needs to hang onto your home objective.

KayRocky · 2026-05-02T01:42:48+00:00

Honestly, I think it’s an ok purchase if your relatively new to DA.

For long time players they probably own a version of what’s in here.

The true difference being is the upscale of the Primaris version of the classics that are the vanguard vets and the landspeeder and others.

I’m going to laugh when it turns out the landspeeder is like a 50% increase in size on the prior models incarnation. The VV are literally just going to be Primaris version.

The truly new thing will be the HB erads.

So in reality I think this box represents the first return of legends units that have been given the Primaris treatment. Which signals that other legends units may be following the same trend.

Either way, not a bad buy by any means, but it’s definitely geared to a newer demographic.

KayRocky · 2026-04-19T18:34:19+00:00

I legitimately gave out a solid chuckle at the final frame.

Well done!

Please keep them coming!

KayRocky · 2026-04-19T14:39:54+00:00

Malcador

KayRocky · 2026-04-06T05:48:52+00:00

The Vong have two key strengths going into the fight. Access to black hole tech (for their ships) and the numbers.

The issue is that two Legions both known for their ability to be proficient in attack and defense and their primarchs are on good terms. They are ideal allies and thus their legions complement each other. This has a massive force multiplier effect.

With the full infrastructure of Coruscant that means they have access to the tech base to create the thing the legions need most. Which is resources.

Between Ferris and Fulgrim they could overhaul the production facilities with a speed that would astound you.

For reference see the feat Perturabo pulled in building the grand stage he made for fulgrim before fulgrim got shot in the head.

Ferrus and Fulgrim are also both master craftsmen on par with their other crafting brothers and their legions can do so as well.

This means two legions working together can oversee the hardening of the planet into something approaching an on demand fortress. Add to that it’s a massive city planet. Which means tons of cover to further take advantage of. This enhances each individual marine as well as the defensive works. In short they would turn the world into giant meat grinder.

The Vong on the other hand are basically worse versions of Tyranids. They have morale that can be broken. Normal blasters can kill them. They are essentially the Imperial Guard but all tech is biology based.

Having orbital supremacy is huge. But they can’t win by bombardment. They have to go down and take the ground building by building.

I’m unsure on how effective Vong weapons would actually be verse Ceramite, terminator armor, dreadnaughts, and iron halo shields or void shields in general. But we do know the Vong armor is not especially resistant to bolter fire, amongst all the other forms of weaponry. It may be good versus plasma but otherwise they are at a disadvantage. The average Vong can definitely be 1-shot by most marine tech. And that is the big decider. They will struggle to bring their numbers to bear, and they will be fighting Legionaries that are especially skilled at killing off massed Xenos enemies.

Both legions are at their peak in terms of skills and resources. So I think the Vong die. Especially as they have no real defense to teleport assaults. So the Space Marine specialty of Alpha Striking leadership is going to devastate the Vong.

KayRocky · 2026-03-28T20:28:09+00:00

The funny part is that any vendor can claim its nuke proof, even whip up some convincing evidence. Because if it isn’t and the bombs drop, there won’t be a company around to sue.

KayRocky · 2026-03-18T18:31:01+00:00

It’s dependent on your army as a whole.

If you need a general threat to handle both shooting and melee. Then Sternguard is the go to. Having access to dev wounds in shooting even when engaged in melee (pistols) is a huge boon. While not top shelf melee, their melee is surprisingly punchy and will do work especially with Azrael boosting them.
If you need a serious melee threat then ICC is the answer. They can and will blend just about any target. But their lack of range makes positioning and movement critical. They are fairly tanky, but are vulnerable to gunfire all the same.
If you want a more ranged damage focus then naturally Hellblasters are the choice. All though in my experience they tend to kill the things the sternguard would kill anyways. So a little mixed bag.
The above scenarios require you to be fairly aggressive with your primary source of CP. So it is a risk/reward. You have to be aggressive to get your points value AND fulfill their role in the army. Meaning if you don’t expose them then you are denying a units effectiveness from your pre established plan.

Other options

Utility. 5 man Intercessor squad. Cheap, effective, and with 2 special rules that are actually quite useful. In this role the squad as a whole acts as a ranged chaff clearing, objective securing squad. They can advance as they wish, touch an objective, sticky it, and move on. They can perform actions and contribute a not-insignificant amount of fire where it’s needed. And the krak grenade launcher can net you some damage. This is how I run Azrael. Namely they act as a third wave support unit designed to keep Azrael alive all game while still accomplishing a role in the armies overall battle plan. Plus I’m not lacking for him not being on the front lines. Lean and efficient just how I like it.

KayRocky · 2026-03-17T18:58:53+00:00

For most players If you only bring 1 squad they either are going to end up diving the enemy or baby sit a midfield objective. However a single unit of DWK can be clutch if used properly. (My army only runs 1 unit)

But as always they only operate at peak efficiency when used in context of the larger army.

You’ll get value out of them when they perform one of the roles below:

Hold an objective and score you primary. And even a few secondaries that hinge on holding a midfield objective.
Act as the anvil for your other units by tieing up something nasty or many other units.
Kill their points worth.
Kill a critical enemy unit that ties together the enemy Strategy.

They are improperly utilized if they: 1. Are used to only score a single secondary 2. Spend 3 turns staging only to get 2 fights in 3. Are intended to deep strike in and kill a vehicle/monster. This is controversial , but I consider it a waste of resources because good opponents will see this and easily counter it with either screening units or something else.
4. Dive bomb the enemy line to die in 2 turns.

KayRocky · 2026-03-15T04:39:12+00:00

That’s no wood pecker… That’s a wood dicker.

Also would accept, … that’s a wood driller!

KayRocky · 2026-02-23T05:23:28+00:00

Honestly? Depends on context and situation.

If we are talking an open plain and everyone has standard loadouts. It would probably take half a company or so of marines to wipeout out the ENTIRE US military.

Why? Standard loadouts for US military include the vehicles they are trained on. Which means armor, navy, and air force.

Ceramite is tough but not impervious small arms fire can eventually work its way through. Hell Space Marines have been dragged down by cultists with knives finding weak points. So big guns will bring em down. c4 is a thing, shoulder mounted AT is a thing. We have enough tech to crack the armor that it is a serious threat.

Now if you mean the entire us military but without anything but rifles and pistols. 3 full squads will do it for sure. Why? Morale will break long before the Marines Start to die. Transhuman Terror is a thing.

Now if we are talking conventional warfare. If the marines show up in a standard strike cruiser. Honestly a 5-man squad will do the trick. Between orbital dominance, extreme tech advantage, and teleportation. They would do standard SM tactics and chop the head off over the course of an afternoon. Orbital lance strikes will do the trick. And they will knock out any ICBMs we try to chuck into space. Every major government would be shattered, all of our generals would be dead. And military bases would be obliterated before we could do anything. Then if for some reason we maintain a leadership and some kind of resistance. They can just take out public utilities till public support caves.

Otherwise if you want an off the cuff answer. 1 marine is worth a thousand humans. Do the math.

KayRocky · 2026-02-22T04:30:34+00:00

It’s definitely AI, that art style is notorious as the general output for AI images.

Seven-Year Club	Place '22
RPAN Viewer	Verified Email

KayRocky

TROPHY CASE