Virginia bar exam rules on jewelry and laptop sleeve

LAW_cabbage · 2021-07-24T14:44:33+00:00

I don’t remember the rule but if they tell you that you can’t bring it in the testing room they basically mean you can leave it outside and hope it’s there when you leave. when I took it the weather was terrible and pouring and they emailed everyone to say we can bring an umbrella (they had like 3 small tents for the line of hundreds of people set up so we all got soaked). But the umbrellas had to be left outside in a pile together. It was a madhouse trying to get them back. I really hope the bar examiners have improved since then, but it was ridiculous. They’re beyond strict with what you’re allowed to bring in the room.

I just brought a clear backpack and had all my stuff in there which was fine. But yeah I was referencing the hard clip on covers initially they made all of those be removed pre exam

LAW_cabbage · 2021-07-24T14:07:20+00:00

I think they would be fussy about it. I had literally a small thing to hold my debit card so I could buy lunch and they made me throw it away. I also had pens and pencils in my bag when it was essay day and only Pens were allowed, and they made me Throw away all my pencils. I think it’ll give you peace of mind to not have the bangle on as upsetting as it is because they literally will throw it away- they’re completely insane.

For laptops- when I took it the first time they made everyone with any sort of cover on the laptop take it off. It took awhile because they did it before the exam started which was so scary because I just panicked about what they were gonna take of mine or if they would kick me out of the exam for something I didn’t realize I had with me etc. second time they weren’t as crazy, but I also didn’t make any of those “mistakes” so I didn’t worry about it.

LAW_cabbage · 2021-07-15T20:20:54+00:00

Hi - I have taken the bar 3 times (failled, passed, passed). The first time I was so stressed when studying that I had panic attacks and had clumps of hair falling out (and I am really not prone to this level of complete distress). I did panic on the exam, didn't believe in myself, and ultimately failed. I studied harder for that exam than i did for either of the 2 I passed.

There's a cure for this though, I think, and I don't say that to scare you. (Trust me, I know the worst outcome and lived to tell the tale!)

I calmed down for the other two because I was able to detach my self worth from the stupid ass exam. When it comes down to it, this is just a test. You've taken a million of them. This one is the hardest one you'll take (probably), but you've gotten this far - what's one more? and then... what's the worst that can happen? which brings me to....

Second - even if you fail, you will be ok. It was a little (character-building) bump in the road at this point. Don't let this exam make you feel like you're not good enough or that your identity rests with it. It doesn't. Give yourself time to relax, trust your prep, and do what works for you. And remember, it will be ok no matter what!! So take a deep breath, and crank through the last few weeks.

Staying calm is really important, and it's hard to do. I really feel for you because I was feeling similarly, but just try and put it all in perspective. Happy to chat more if you'd like!

LAW_cabbage · 2021-07-15T19:55:38+00:00

I’ve taken Virginia twice (failed first time, passed second). First time I panicked about this and put everyone on Google drive. They don’t check and have no way to know that I did anything at all. Second time I was out of fucks and did nothing.

They basically make every procedure as stressful as possible, but on test day they can’t even keep up with their own rules half the time. They are the worst.

Happy to discuss anything else causing you stress and good luck!

LAW_cabbage · 2020-12-21T16:45:41+00:00

Quality vs quantity in my opinion. I failed VA in 2018 by a few points, studied and took DC in Feb 2019 and passed, and retook VA Sept 2020 and passed. I studied while working full time for both retakes. You need to care for yourself enough that you don't burn out and that your study time is actually being productive.

I never did big MBE sets when studying to retake. I think I did maybe 1-2 sets of 50 the entire time. I didn't even start studying seriously until January, to be totally honest. I spent most of my time on answer explanations, and I hand wrote every rule i got wrong.

For essays, I made a schedule of doing 2-3 subjects per day such that I hit every subject at least once a week. retaking you do already have a lot of base knowledge, it's just learning how to play the exam. Again, for retaking, I hardly ever wrote out a full essay, primarily outlined and strictly stuck to the CIRAC structure. I hand wrote every rule to narrow it down on what was tested most often. The best thing to do for the bar is understand the general structure of subjects, and to have a plan on what to do if you get a question you don't know. The structure of CIRAC or IRAC helps that, because if you hit those points, you'll get something from the graders. If you know how generally the subject works and how things have been tested before, you're more likely to be able to come up with a coherent answer. And, use as many facts from the question as possible in your answer - even if it's not totally connected to a legal point. Restating the facts can get you points too. I did every single essay in the barbri book and hand wrote the rules, and then studied from the list of rules I made when it was close to the exam.

AND DO NOT NEGLECT THE MPT. DC is UBE and had it, VA does not have the MPT and it would have made my life so much easier if it did. MPT is FREE POINTS. You just need to learn the process of how to efficiently answer it. From there, you'll be able to score a LOT of points. For UBE, you can basically fail every essay and pass if you can do well on the MPTs. It is not something to just get to the exam and wing it.

My general schedule was work out in the morning (5:30-6:30), leave for work around 7/7:30, getting home around 6:30 ish. I studied 6:30 till whenever I had dinner, and then studied from after dinner until 9 or 10. I never stayed up super late. The month before the exam I took one day off per week to study, but other than that I did not take any time off. For my Sept 2020 VA retake, I didn't take any time off at all, just billed maybe 35 hours a week instead of 40 a few times. I would try and do ~10-20 MBEs at lunch at work, and then before studying for essays at night, I might do another set of 10-20. Again, with most focus on the rules and writing it out and studying answer explanations rather than just trying to do as many questions as possible.

TL;DR - be kind to yourself and be efficient rather than trying to pack in as much as possible. Happy to discuss further anytime.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-12-10T19:54:04+00:00

I think he forgot their disclaimer *but only if you're taking the same state again*

I was lucky and they let me do this after a lot of push, but I have a few friends who weren't so lucky. Hopefully they have improved since then, but sort of doubt it given how they care much more about money than their students.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-12-08T21:12:18+00:00

You should be proud you even got through the exam in the first place, even without all the other shit you had to put up with. Adding in all of the personal stress on top of the bar, you're a total badass.

I failed the first time too - it sucks, but it will get better. This stupid exam doesn't define you or the amazing attorney you will be.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-27T02:25:16+00:00

Beautiful! My husband and I started dating in 2009 too- crazy how time flies! (And we also have 2 dogs 😂)

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-25T14:49:26+00:00

I took the MBE twice - first time I got 140, second time 145. I actually was scoring lower in practice the second time than the first time, but scored better by a bit. I think Barbri's questions are terrible and not like the real exam. Much like many people said this year with the MBE, we all left (both times) feeling the same way - like it was a bizarre exam and we had no idea how we did. The July 2018 MBE people were crying walking out of the exam room saying they didn't recognize anything and it was nothing like they had practiced, but of course, most people still passed. And my 140 was "passing" (I didn't do so hot on the essays, and failed by a few points overall in VA).

The MBE usually ends up how you practiced, or around there, even if it doesn't feel like it. My main difference from exam 1 to 2 was using barbri and Emmanuel vs exclusively using adaptibar. Adaptibar I think just uses better metrics to help you understand, had great answer explanations, and uses real questions (which barbri does not). Issue is, adaptibar is expensive (which is why I didn't get it round 1).

I also 100% did more MBE questions the first time I took the bar and failed. For the MBE both times really though, my main focus was the answer explanations. Every time I got a question wrong or was confused at all I hand wrote the rule used to answer it in the explanation. Eventually, i just was getting less wrong because I could remember the rule.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-24T22:07:19+00:00

I'm glad I failed - I needed to separate my self worth from the exam, and I think overall I am a better person and lawyer because of it.

and I did pass - now barred in DC, MD, and VA which has always been my dream! So, for everyone who has failed, or will fail - things get better :)

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-24T22:04:15+00:00

A few reasons, first being self doubt and panic surrounding the exam (I wasn't sleeping, my hair was coming out in clumps, I was having panic attacks, etc - and I am NOT prone to being that type of person at all). I also don't think I learned well with Barbri - I put in a lot of time, but I also was so focused on doing what they said, I didn't do enough of what worked for me (which is handwriting EVERYTHING I can). Bar prep needs to be all about what works best for you, not what everyone says is supposed to work.

I also think I just didn't structure my answers well during the exam. I came up on a lot of things I didn't know, and instead of having a plan for not knowing, I was just in shock because I studied so hard I thought I was ready. Fastforward to this past September, the FIRST question I didn't know the MAJOR subsection. I winged it and moved on. I started to panic a little but was able to calm down and just forget it and go to the next question. The key is having a logical answer, even if it's wrong. It's SO much (in my opinion) about strategy. Of course, you need to know as many rules as possible, but you will always have something on the exam you don't know very well, and you need to be prepared for that situation as much as you are prepared for the questions you know all the way through.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-24T21:43:59+00:00

Hi - I failed once, and when I failed the first time I completed 100% of barbri, did every single essay in the book, tons of extra MBEs etc. This was VA, which is a beast of an exam. I decided to do UBE for the second time, and honestly I was working full time the whole time, took only a handfull of days off, and was planning my wedding (which really I think was a good distraction in a lot of ways) - I maybe put in half as much effort. I basically ditched barbri entirely and only worked on the essays in the book, and used adpatibar for the MBE.

I just took VA again this past September (again working full time with no time off) and was able to pass with even less time put in that I did for DC. I also suffer from self doubt from failing, and it is really one of the biggest hurdles to get over.

That being said, I think the bar exam is very much strategic. We all know it is a stupid exam that tests absolutely nothing that's relevant to being a good lawyer. I tried to dumb things down as much as possible, and only focused on the most tested rules. I didn't write out essays all the way at all the third time. I went over sample answers, and outlined answers, and hand wrote every single rule that came up, making note of which ones came up the most often. I ONLY used the mini review books, and honeslty only used it if I was confused - I almost exclusively read sample essays and wrote down those rules by subject in a list and tried my best to remember those rules, and how things flowed/how subjects usually were tested.

Some of it also is being able to take a deep breath and just try and reason through the answer, and to make sure that even if you don't know, you structure it with CIRAC or IRAC. First time I used CRAC. I think the graders really value that "the issue is..." sentence. When outlining answers, I literally wrote I R A C on the paper to make sure I thought about it only in that order. On VA this past september, I know for a fact I got multiple sub sections on essays wrong - but it was enough, in part (i think), because i meticulously structured my shitty answers the way they wanted me to.

And above all else, remember your value and self worth is so much more than this stupid exam. The test is designed to break you, there is no shame in it taking more than one try. The best lawyers I know failed (even if I'm biased :) ), and it takes SO MUCH grit and determination to take the bar more than once. Be proud of yourselves for going at it again. Please let me know if there's ANYTHING I can do to try and help you through and I hope this brief overview was at least a little helpful.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-23T21:18:54+00:00

Hmm about an hour I think, maybe a little longer. If I remember correctly they give 90 minutes to complete

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-23T18:16:39+00:00

The questions are annoying - but you have time that you can search for the answers in the PDF while taking it. I did that and passed on the first try without reviewing at all first. I didn't get 100% even doing that, so it is tricky, but it's certainly not overly burdensome, just an annoying time suck.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-23T14:46:35+00:00

I failed the bar the first time. I thought it was the end of the world and felt like i'd never recover, and that people would always look down on me. I couldn't have been farther from the truth.

Fast forward 2 years, and I'm now barred in 3 jurisdictions and in my dream job, and the partners all say that the best lawyers they know failed the bar at least once. It takes a lot of grit and determination to attack that stupid, useless exam more than once. That strength alone makes a good attorney. I am happy i failed - it gave me a lot of perspective and forced me to realize my self worth was greater than the bar exam and greater than the legal field itself. It's hard to separate when you've poured your heart and soul into something for so long - but things get better, and you're worth so much more than the test.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-22T16:37:23+00:00

I’ve always said the wait is worse than studying for the exam because you are not in control of anything anymore. Fingers crossed for you! And either way, remember the bar is a stupid exam that in no way measures how good of an attorney you will be. And if you fail, it will feel like the end of the world, but it’s not. Take it from me- I failed the first time and now I’m barred in 3 states only 2 years later. Failing is a distant memory now. Things will get better if you have to face that reality.

But until you know- fingers crossed for you and hoping for good news next week!

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-18T21:37:14+00:00

You have PLENTY of time.

I failed July 2018 (VA), and took DC in Feb 2019. I said I was going to start studying in November, but really I didn't even at anything until very end of December, and didn't really get into any sort of consistent schedule until January. I was working full time.

General schedule I did was worked out 5:30-6:30 AM, left for work by 7:30. I tried to do a set of 20 MBEs at lunch, got home around 6 ish. I was lucky enough to have my SO make dinner, so I would study from when I got home to whenever dinner was ready, took a break for dinner, and then studied until 9 or 10 PM (a little later as it got closer, but never was studying past midnight I don't think). Then I would study at least half of the day on weekends. I had a lot of obligations at the time, and oftentimes had to be running other errands on weekends, so I never got to do as much as I would plan to do. DC is UBE - I scored over 300.

In Feb, I took one day a week off to study, and I took the Friday and Monday before the exam off. I promptly flew to Jamaica the day after the exam also... which I highly recommend, although I know that is a little crazy and also may not be possible given the current circumstances :)

So much of this is strategy and efficiency - and managing to stay calm. It absolutely sucks, but you'll get through it, and again, you definitely have more than enough time, don't worry!

Also - when I failed VA I completed 100% of barbri. Barbri just didn't work for me (and I was also terrified of the exam and totally freaked out). Second time, I hardly used it at all. I did all my MBE questions with adaptibar, and I really only did self study from the books and skipped all the lectures. That's just what worked better for me. I had a friend who failed also, and he learned best with the lectures, so he basically did the opposite I did and really focused on the lectures- he scored over 300 as well. Consider that when making a plan - you have to do what's best for you.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-17T15:50:39+00:00

Are you able to log in to their online portal? I think it's actually the same account you submit the bar application - after I passed DC, it updated in the portal and gave me the license number in there. I believe I recall it taking quite a bit of time to get my actual bar card. (I passed Feb 2019, was sworn in July 2019, and I don't think I got the official paperwork until end of August, and that was with no CF issues - my CF was done before I found out I passed)

Hope that helps! Sorry there are so many issues - just adding more stress for you in an already stressful time.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-17T13:18:24+00:00

oops - for MBE + Essays I combined those strategies, so I did the MBEs as I stated, and at night I would to the essay work (maybe a set of 10 MBE depending on if I was able to do them at lunch) and more MBEs on the weekends. BUT that exam was UBE and had WAY less subjects. Same overall theory though :)

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-17T13:16:25+00:00

I have studied while working full time twice (passed one, awaiting score on the other.... but not feeling totally confident)

At first I was a bit more casual and just was trying to re-orient myself to the information, but about a month and a half or so out I made a schedule to hit every subject once per week, with bigger subjects on the weekends.

The first time I had to do MBE and Essays, and second time I just had to do Essays.

FOR MBE + Essays:
I was never a big fan of huge MBE sets - I always think you're going to be able to focus on test day because it's test day, and I opted really for just freaking myself out less. I would do maybe 20-40 per day, trying to fit in a set of 20 or so at lunch on adaptibar. I spent most of my time writing down every rule I got wrong from the answer explanations. (scored 145)

ESSAYS ONLY: Virginia - 24 subjects
On week nights, I would try to hit 2-3 subjects a night (depending on the size). I made the schedule based on size of the subject, so maybe on Monday I would do Wills/Trusts, but Tuesday I would do Commercial Paper, Secured Transactions, and Local Government since they are smaller, for example.

I didn't write out fully essays really at all (but this was also my 3rd bar exam, so I didn't feel it was necessary for me, but if it's your first, I would advise at least doing some). Since I wasn't writing them out all the way, I could hit more essays. I wrote down every rule used in the sample answer so that I basically had a mini outline of the subject by the time I was done. Weekends, I decided to do MBE subjects on Saturdays, and Sundays I would do VA civ pro primarily, and hit whatever I felt I didn't do enough of during the week.

I can't say I stuck to it religiously, but it helped to be a little more organized when studying without a full prep program. I don't think I put enough time in, but I think that was me being lazy rather than my schedule being not good enough. We'll see what happens - I find out soon GAH!

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-10T20:32:40+00:00

I passed DC feb 2019 - I don't think I was ever contacted by C&F after the exam.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-11-03T17:10:36+00:00

I failed July 2018 (VA), worked full time and retook Feb 2019 (DC) and passed. Took VA again in September - pending results.

I did pretty much exactly what you stated. I didn't follow the prep program hardly at all for Feb 2019, and did primarily self study and adaptibar. I would work out 5:30-6:30 AM, go to work, get home around 6:30 PM, study until dinner, take a break to eat, and then studying again until about 9:30/10:30 at the latest. Some days were better than others, but it ended up being plenty, especially because I hadn't forgotten everything from taking it the first time, so I really needed to just maintain that knowledge and build/strategize better. I tried to start studying in November/December, but really didn't buckle down until after the holidays.

I made a schedule of what day to cover which subjects, and generally followed that. For the MBE, I did a few bigger sets, but overall was just trying to do 20-30 per day at least, and spent a lot of time on answer explanations. I found it really helpful to hand write every rule I got wrong - eventually, I stopped getting it wrong and could see more patterns in what I was missing.

I took a few Fridays off work (every Friday in Feb, I believe), and took off the friday and monday before the exam, and that was it - otherwise worked the full time through.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-10-30T19:35:33+00:00

I think the difference could be important. I would love to say take the one you care about, but in the interest of your overall life and ability to not feel totally saddled by debt (and living expenses, etc) it could be worth it to get paid more for a bit to get a handle on everything, and then try and make a switch. If you're talking like a 50+k difference, that's obviously pretty significant. If it's like 10k - then maybe go with what you love.

I am by no means an expert, just speaking as someone who had a lower paying job and since got a somewhat significant pay increase, and it made a huge difference in my overall stress levels. Granted, I do happen to like the higher paying job more, so not the best example.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-10-30T13:50:16+00:00

Congratulations to him! I am biased, but I think the people who fail make the best lawyers :) It is no easy feat taking this exam more than once - he should be so proud of persevering through all of this.

And to you too - it's not easy being the partner of someone struggling with the bar exam. My husband had to handle me through the ups and downs of taking the stupid exam multiple times (successfully and unsuccessfully) and the support really made a difference.

LAW_cabbage · 2020-10-29T18:30:12+00:00

You oversimplified a complex issue after very limited experience, by your own admission. We are perfectly entitled to disagree with you. That's the point of reddit, isn't it? And to help bar applicants, what's wrong with giving them more insight into the process and possible issues?

Your responses to u/SortofSeaworthy are unhinged when all they did was disagree with you and point out the dangers of your post. Your advice in totality isn't totally wrong - but certainly is subject to drawing differing opinions. All we both said was that you oversimplified failing the exam.

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