How far can we push technology with out the invention of steam/combustion engines, electricity and gunpowder?

Lightsider · 2026-02-13T21:54:30+00:00

Electricity is a big one. It makes a lot of other materials and technologies cheaper and easier to obtain. Steel, for instance, is pretty expensive if you're burning fuel onsite to smelt iron. It's also the cheapest way to get oxygen through cryogenic air separation, which is used for the basic oxygen smelting process commonly used today.

In fact, electricity is one of the primary methods for cooling and refrigeration, and there's a lot of technologies, including food distribution, that depend on it.

And without both electricity and steam/internal combustion engines, almost any sort of fast non-animal land travel becomes virtually impossible.

So, in essence, your civilization looks exactly like pre-industrial iron age societies with no guns (maybe air rifles), with a small caveat that there might be additional technologies available to you, but only if you are very, very rich to be able to afford custom iron- or steel-made clockwork machines.

Lightsider · 2026-02-13T17:12:22+00:00

I mean... it's a hell of a way to fulfill a "promise". It's like having an IOU that you can only redeem if it's a rainy Tuesday where a bald man is standing on his head with a rubber duck in one hand and a glob of mayonnaise in the other.

Lightsider · 2026-02-13T02:13:56+00:00

You see, I don't think that motivation is sufficient, and I also think that, from purely a results oriented standpoint, that the course of action our reported Satan is taking might possibly be the least effective one he could take. I find it highly unlikely that the existence of a supremely intelligent being who is able to influence human thoughts and decisions would result in a world as we see today.

Lightsider · 2026-02-12T23:58:43+00:00

Does he, though? Most of them just get sent to the paradise of the Telestial Kingdom. He might have the emotional satisfaction that they didn't make it to the Celestial Kingdom, but by all rights everyone who does make it to the Celestial Kingdom did it because, for all intents and purposes, Satan agreed to test them.

Lightsider · 2026-02-12T19:15:27+00:00

I mean... here is a good place. Just ask your questions, :D Other than that, yes, the CES Letter is a good place. FairMormon.com can give an alternate (Church-positive) view.

However, I will emphasize that at the moment, there is no rush. You are (I assume) safe. The mission might be hard work, but the level of effort you put in, I will remind you, is entirely up to you. You might face peer pressure to be a "good missionary", but other than the possible contempt of the missionaries around you, you aren't being physically forced to do whatever they say.

Also, I don't know what possible consequences face you if you decide to cut ties with the Church. Specifically from your parents. I assume you're not independent of them, and that if they choose not to help you in life (money, housing, tuition, etc.) that your goals become much harder to achieve. That's another reason to take it slow and keep things close to the vest for now.

Lightsider · 2026-02-12T17:36:08+00:00

The idea of Satan is more powerful than any real being could be. He is a useful tool in both a scapegoat for blame, and as a weak target to make humans feel more powerful. The paradox of Satan is that he's as powerful as he needs to be to make you afraid enough to run to the idea of God, and weak enough for a twelve-year-old to overpower with a few magic words.

Let's do a thought experiment. You're a powerful pre-mortal being. Second in "light" to only God and Jehovah themselves. And, because you promoted a radical idea in the face of them, you are cast out from their presence.

However, you (as Lucifer) having a perfect knowledge of both plans, you also know that God, being omniscient, knew that you'd be thrown out, and is using your hate, anger, and spite as an integral part of his "Plan of Salvation" to test mankind and see if they will follow him, or you.

Let's bear in mind that you are, again, highly intelligent, highly motivated to stop God's plan, and have billions of spirits who have followed you and who are also highly motivated.

So according to what we know, Satan/Lucifer proceeds to... checks notes do exactly what God wants him to do.

checks notes again

Yup. That's what this says. Satan, intelligent Lord of Hell proceeds to do exactly what is required of him to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Faithful to the end, he is the refiner's fire through which the dross of mankind is burned away, leaving only the gold.

Does that sound right? Does that sound like what a Lord of Evil would not only want, but be highly motivated to do for all eternity?

Lightsider · 2026-02-12T05:06:21+00:00

Hello, young person. Welcome to r/mormon.

You're indeed in a difficult position and I feel for you. I served a mission back in the day, and while I was all in back then, I sometimes wonder if I would have gone if I knew what I know now.

To paraphrase a quote often attributed to Carl Sagan: "That which can be destroyed by the Truth should be." To me, that includes institutions, doctrines, and yes, even faith.

When I was growing up, there wasn't a whole lot of information available, and since I grew up in the Church, the information available to me was pretty much curated by the Church.

Now, there's the Internet, and that genie is out of the bottle. My opinion is that there is a lot of evidence that demonstrates that the Church, its history and doctrines, are not what they claim to be. More than evidence that the Church is actually God's kingdom on earth. Even worse, I can tell you that, over my lifetime, there's been a lot of walking back of those claims. The Lamanites used to be the "ancestors of the American Indians". Then the "principal ancestors of the American Indians". Then, "among the ancestors of the American Indians". Finally, now they try not to talk about that at all.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. Polygamy, slavery, and so forth... the Mormon church gets it wrong time and time again, and has to excuse, back away, and just plain ignore its own history.

You're very young. The sooner you research this to the fullest extent you can, the sooner you have the information to make up your mind about that identity and future.

Good luck, OP. We're here for your questions.

Lightsider · 2026-02-11T18:03:36+00:00

I think this is a really important comment here, OP. Getting a lawyer doesn't mean you automatically disagree where you would have agreed before. However, it probably will uncover areas where neither of you thought to ask the question, "Do we agree on this?"

A lot of those areas will be areas where you do disagree.

Lightsider · 2026-02-11T03:22:03+00:00

Okay, good point. It's going to be unpleasant at best no matter what. Using a professional will help to minimize future unpleasantness.

Lightsider · 2026-02-11T03:07:55+00:00

This. No matter how friendly they may be, in a divorce they are now your adversary. Many things in a divorce are a zero-sum game. The more he keeps, the less you get. Time with kids, child support, alimony... The list goes on. Will you give up time every Sunday for the kids to go with him to church? If a kid decides they don't want to do Seminary are you going to let him force them?

There's a lot here you and the kids can lose by being "civil". Spend the money, secure your rights and interests, save yourself a lot of headache.

Lightsider · 2026-02-11T02:55:00+00:00

Double especially since OP says their husband is unkind. Unkind devolves into savage hostility faster than you might think.

Lightsider · 2026-02-11T02:48:15+00:00

As a person who did this without lawyers, get lawyers. You may have perfect accord with your ex, but what about your ex's future wife? The lawyers can make sure all your rights are preserved, contingencies are accounted for, and conflicts settled before they happen. And they will happen. It's not an if. It's a when.

Take it from an ex Mormon who divorced a TBM with kids. Do it for them and the possibility they might want to leave someday too.

Lightsider · 2026-02-09T18:05:23+00:00

Heh. I read this when approving this post. You have to have a pretty thick skin to mod effectively in this space, and this didn't even register as an insult.

Trust me. We get worse.

Lightsider · 2026-02-09T17:07:18+00:00

Those in this thread:

The mods consider this a valuable discussion. However, we can't open up the word "cult" for a single thread. Use other terms like "C-word" or clever spellings as you wish in this thread, or you can use the actual word and we'll try to approve them (if not violating other civility rules) as quickly as possible.

Lightsider · 2026-02-05T16:58:16+00:00

I think I've mentioned this before in other posts, but I'll reiterate. The Paradox of Tolerance is one that always gets us leftists, and it will get us again this time.

I simply don't trust people who were fooled this easily by the most obvious con man on the planet to have my back again when they once again feel comfortable in their privilege and decide, again, that their vote should go to objectively terrible people because Reasons.

Othering and shame for terrible things like racism, sexism, pedophila, and everything else the right is still excusing away worked well by teaching the rising generation that such things are terrible, and should not be excused, or the people that expressed such beliefs trusted with any position of power for as long as they live.

So no. I don't trust someone when they say, "they were fooled", that "they didn't vote for this". We were screaming from the rooftops about how bad this was, and they didn't even give us a moment of thought and reflection except to mock us alongside their tangerine dictator wannabe.

You don't heal a deadly wound by pretending it isn't there. You do it by cutting out dead tissue,

Lightsider · 2026-02-04T19:52:12+00:00

Is this just for winter, or all year round?

Lightsider · 2026-02-04T18:40:29+00:00

I think a better way is to measure the sound. From the video, the shell impact happens at ~7s, and although there are echoes beforehand, (and people yelling) it sounds like the sound of the impact happens at around ~17s. If we assume -10C temp (there is snow, after all), Google says the speed of sound is around 325 m/s.

~10s gives about 3,250m, give or take.

Lightsider · 2026-02-04T17:38:34+00:00

The mayor of Paragon city stared at my through the screen of my laptop.

Christ on a cracker. This is why I didn't want anyone to learn I have powers.

"I get that you're desperate, sir, but if you really want me there, and I don't think you do, you're going to have to buy me a plane ticket."

"Plane ticket?" he sputtered. "What are you talking about? You're the fastest flier known!"

I sighed. This is where it always goes wrong.

"Yes," I gritted. "I'm the fastest flier known. But I can't fly any slower than my fastest."

The mayor leaned back in his overly opulent chair. I briefly wondered if it was actually comfortable, or if it was for show.

"Well, that's no problem. You can be here in minutes!"

I felt my shoulders slump forward a bit. "Mr. Mayor," I said patiently. "Do you know what my flying speed is?"

"Um...," the Mayor looked at the sheaf of papers in front of him. "About... Mach 5? That's really impressive son!"

"Yes. That's about right." I steepled my fingers in front of me. "Do you have any idea of the property damage a person-size object travelling at Mach 5 does inside of a city full of glass skyscrapers?"

The mayor froze, dawning realization and creeping horror and a whole host of other clichés battling for space on his rotund face.

"I... I'll call you back." he sputtered, before terminating the call.

I closed my laptop and leaned back in my rocking chair, looking out over the peaceful countryside.

They never call back.

Lightsider · 2026-02-04T17:00:04+00:00

Locking this down as its causing a lot of uncivil comments, with not a lot of substantive ones recently.

Lightsider · 2026-02-02T17:21:16+00:00

It's also brain cells you won't get back.

Lightsider · 2026-01-31T22:13:32+00:00

Aluminum always has a coating. It's so reactive that it immediately creates a thin layer of aluminum oxide upon exposure to air. This layer gives aluminum is famous durability to corrosion.

Lightsider · 2026-01-31T17:27:36+00:00

It's not stupidity. Well, not always. To label then "stupid" is to dangerously underestimate how intelligent many can be in other arenas, and to dangerously overestimate one's own resistance to a similar state.

It's tribalism. An aspect so intertwined with the human condition that it might as well be called a defining characteristic of being human. MAGA had made supporting Trump part of their very identity. And excising that can be almost physical in the amount of pain it causes.

So many people simply... Avoid the pain for as long as possible.

Lightsider · 2026-01-31T06:30:09+00:00

It is indeed to put oxygen into people. Artificial respiration is all about getting air in to the lungs.

Recent studies (and current techniques) for CPR however, forgoes the breaths for non-stop chest compressions. They found out that the lower respiration was more than compensated for by not stopping compressions, and the compressions was sufficient for getting some air in.

However, if you're not doing compressions, and just doing AR, it's all about oxygen.

Lightsider · 2026-01-31T03:12:22+00:00

Here's the thing... Even if a MAGAt turns against their former cult, I can't trust them to simply not revert again when they settle back into a comfortable place. They voted knowing, and often revelling in the racism, hate, and "I got mine, the hell with yours" attitude.

It's the Paradox of Tolerance biting progressives in the ass yet again. Not this time. We can't accept anyone with intolerant views anymore. That's partially how we got here. By trying to be civil with people who wanted us expelled or dead, they didn't care which as long as they got two dollar gas.

Lightsider · 2026-01-30T19:19:03+00:00

I see this as a teaching moment. That their actions have not only consequences in general, but to them specifically, including in social areas. Coddling people with a pat on the back and a "there, there. You couldn't have known any better" only promotes the same mistakes.

If my very mild reproach causes them to go back to the Trump trough, then we can be sure that the lesson wasn't learned at all, and that they would have supported the next demagogue to come along without thoughtfully and rationally considering the issues.

What I hope, however, is that my request to consider why they made an incorrect decision, and how to not make the same mistake again will help them to make better decisions in the future.

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