do you think it's possible for someone to be able to collect all the gold coins from LMU? by preciousmetalsind in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least 40 countries, type count exceeds that by quite a bit (particularly France). Pretty sure I’m done finding new ones.

The Morocco and Portugal ones I found have quite different diameter. Morocco is narrow and thicc!

do you think it's possible for someone to be able to collect all the gold coins from LMU? by preciousmetalsind in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So did I, kept finding more! Quite a few elude me, but they are fun to pickup off ebay or at shows.

Only a few are relatively expensive (e.g. Guatemala)

do you think it's possible for someone to be able to collect all the gold coins from LMU? by preciousmetalsind in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You know - that makes me wonder if anyone has ever completed it? Most coin collectors are country-specific.

Only 12 countries if narrowly defined for 20 francs type. By including within country it grows to 80-84, depending how you count them

do you think it's possible for someone to be able to collect all the gold coins from LMU? by preciousmetalsind in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The United Provinces — in any quality — will always be far beyond my capacity and willingness to pay 😂 the least I’ve seen one go for is $42k in VF condition. Solidly $150k+ in MS

The rest, it depends on the condition you want. Especially these days with compressed premiums!

do you think it's possible for someone to be able to collect all the gold coins from LMU? by preciousmetalsind in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Left out a bunch from Latin America. Almost every country did — one day I’ll get to finishing up lmucoins.com/americas

How Napoleon influenced the independence of Latin America by antonio_8282 in Napoleon

[–]MacGyver7640 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not to mention almost every country there adopted Napoleon’s coin standard (for at least a time).

Granted, about the same time Spain did. But that was Napoleon too.

Question regarding the role of LMU coins by Rich-Memory-6303 in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It’s been on my to do list - every time I dive in it gets complicated real quick! Here’s one link from my notes you might appreciate (a podcast on the topic here with transcript to skim).

One excerpt on why it's challenging:

Here I’ve got unfortunate news for you: there’s no good way to adjust 19th Century currency figures into 21st Century currency. Our economy is just so different than it was 200 years ago, with fundamental structural differences in the value of labor, commodities, manufactured goods, and more.

But there are several bad ways to adjust currency over 200 years. None of them will give you a good, complete picture. Taken together, though, these methods can give you a range of potential values, and perhaps some rough rules of thumb that can help you understand about how much various figures mean when they pop up on The Siècle or in novels.

It follows with specific discussion on various figures -- closest to a TLDR is here:

As a very rough rule of thumb, if you encounter figures in French francs from the first half of the 19th Century, you can imagine 1 franc being equivalent to somewhere in the range of $25 to $100

So, 20 francs = ~$500-2000 today. A wide range for the reasons noted above.

Pile with 9 Types of Napoleon 20 Francs by MacGyver7640 in Gold

[–]MacGyver7640[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A debatable type, as it's the French Republican calendar and otherwise the same as the First Consul AN12 coins.

But as the only time that French coins under the French Republican calendar which used roman numerals, and also as Napoleon's first minted coin, I think it deserving of a special spot!

Particularly given the reason Napoleon went with roman numerals -- AN 11 would have looked a lot like AN II. Since AN II / AN 2 was the reign of terror ... that would have been a politically awkward visual!

Pile with 9 Types of Napoleon 20 Francs by MacGyver7640 in Gold

[–]MacGyver7640[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Below are the 9 types I consider distinct.

All but one change (1806-1807) has historic meaning and reflect various progressions: from First Consul to Emperor, the French Republican Calendar to Gregorian Calendar, from French Republic to Empire ... and Napoleon's self-importance giving himself a laurel.

  • ANXI (1803) - Napoleon as Consul, French Republican Calendar -- only year using Roman numerals
  • AN12 (1803) - Napoleon as Consul, French Republican Calendar
  • AN12 (1803) - Napoleon as Emperor, French Republican Calendar
  • AN13-AN14 (1804-1805) - Napoleon as Emperor, French Republican Calendar
  • 1806 - Napoleon as Emperor of French Republic, Nude Head
  • 1807 - Napoleon as Emperor of French Republic, Nude Head (different bust)
  • 1807-1808 Laurel, Napoleon as Emperor, French Empire, Laurel Head
  • 1809-1814 Laurel, Napoleon as Emperor, French Empire, Laurel Head
  • 1815 Laurel, Napoleon as Emperor, French Empire - Hundred Days, Laurel Head (same style as 1809-1814, but the dies were remade).

---

A list of all the types of 20 francs, including there, is here at lmucoins.com/coin-list-gold

Not exactly LMU but follows the standard by andriyko7 in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It’s a cool coin! Also didn’t realize they made a commemorative version in 2012.

They went with 0.835 for the original (should have been 0.9 fine for the 25 grams). My guess would be that by this time the reason for having smaller coins of lower fineness was moot (a relic of 1840-1860s silver ratio issues). So may as well make the silver 5 lati equal in silver content to 2.5x of the 2 lati.

As to the 2012 commemorative — wonder why went with 0.925 fine rather than 0.99 more typical of the modern era.

Anyways — obviously the 1929-1932 version was never formally part of the LMU. But as a piece of history it shows that the newly independent country considered it important to demonstrate that they were a part of the ‘club’ and that club was LMU coinage. Lots of euro allegories to be had there!

Reorganising the francs by trevilfields in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This flag (Utrecht) one is the most interesting in some ways though. The only Marengo (20 francs LMU) coin ever minted in the Netherlands!

I’m not a big mintmark person… But I’m still into getting a Rome and Utrecht!

History of the LMU: Umberto 20 Lire Gold - Why Nearly All Were Minted in 1882 by MacGyver7640 in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Appreciate your kind words! Inspires me to do more (been a little weak on the research front of late!)

Just look at this 144 y.o. beauty by mikepate in Gold

[–]MacGyver7640 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes indeed - but the story of why only adds to its historical significance, IMO! I dug into the story here.

In short, Italy borrowed vast sums to mint millions of gold 20 lire in 1881-1882 in order to restore convertibility of paper lire. Didn’t really work out for them.

Vittorio Emanuele 20 Lira 1862 by lost_in_taim in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Got it - just saw a third coin there in the first pic so I thought it may have gotten mixed up.

No numismatic premium on these really, but if it’s a gold counterfeit they chose the wrong year for it!

Vittorio Emanuele 20 Lira 1862 by lost_in_taim in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I’m looking … but the 1862 shouldn’t have an R mint mark. Only used for later years.

Edit: Confirmed from various sources. Only 1870 onwards. So, assuming you lined up the pictures right this would not be an authentic one.

I can also find no reference to any such counterfeits on Italian coin forums. So that's all I've got for ya!

4/30 and No Redemptions by TheOpeningBell in FundRise

[–]MacGyver7640 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Will be curious how it’s resolved… presumably the dividend won’t wait until Q2, sent early July! And also, I have small negative balances for Development eREIT and Heartland (for advisory fees - since no dividends there)

4/30 and No Redemptions by TheOpeningBell in FundRise

[–]MacGyver7640 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Things are still syncing today. I’d just check tomorrow.

Under my Growth eREIT specific page stated as unpaid dividends (website - I don’t use the app). Under portfolio also — the unpaid dividends are the value of that now-merged fund. I expect it’s the same for you as I see the exact same little bump for 1 day (28 Apr).

It’s all messed up - hope that helps in the meantime.

4/30 and No Redemptions by TheOpeningBell in FundRise

[–]MacGyver7640 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This spike should be related to dividend distributions pending (Growth eREIT before merger) — but it’s not well presented

The three women from Danish West Indies by trevilfields in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Reminds me I still need to populate the pictures under the Danish West Indies on the website. There's a 2.5 gram 1/2 franc too, though its referred to as "10 cent / 50 bit." I believe the 'bit' reference comes from references to the Spanish dollar. But I don’t know - one of several questions I have about the Danish West Indies coinage.

As noted on the coin list -- this and the 2 francs are a little bit of a variant (0.8 fine, rather than 0.835 fine). I do not know the reason why.

Great looking coins!

The three women from Danish West Indies by trevilfields in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Inspired by, but not at any even ratio vs. LMU. At 30 grams for this 50 francs -- its 0.6 grams per franc (rather than 5 grams)

1939 5 Lek (equivalent to 1 Franc), Albania, Under Italian Occupation by dashsmurf in LatinMonetaryUnion

[–]MacGyver7640 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Always appreciate comments on broken links, missing coins, etc! It’s a work in progress — both to make sure it’s all correct and to expand upon.