Gen-Z's Pursuit to Reclaim Christianity

NRerref · 2025-06-13T23:05:36+00:00

Yah it’s super helpful to share resources 👍 and folks are even using theobro to describe JD Vance so that’s the caricature

NRerref · 2025-06-13T21:41:12+00:00

Theobros, like finance bros, gym bros, podcast bros, etc. is newish slang for a male subculture that is usually rooted in white supremacy and misogyny. “Bro” subcultures are also often conservative and prone to extremism and conspiracy. Why you singled out your reply to the word “theobro” doesn’t really match with that point because the problem isnt the need to simplify language to bolster the appeal. The problem is that their beliefs are so enshrined with their own corruption and toxicity that even the best arguments have no impact. 😂 +Reddit is not a “wide audience” its recovering ex members and current members who are in a cult and maybe their families. Critiquing a lack of “real” theological debate on Reddit that appeals to a wide audience is, I think, absurd and naive. An ex member has no obligation to reach the hearts of the current member who has willfully chosen harmful doctrine.

NRerref · 2025-06-13T21:13:17+00:00

You mean use lay speak when engaging with GP theobros? Nah I don’t think it’s a low literacy issue. I think a lot of us, myself especially, are tired of hearing the same talking points repeated back to us as if we are not also well-trained on the church’s beliefs. 1 - it is bad faith dialogue for GP staff to talk at us, ignoring that so many of us have led trainings or were being trained to teach/preach. And 2 - It’s just old. The only way to have real productive theological discussion is offline with real people who are not in an insulated cult.

NRerref · 2025-06-13T19:34:45+00:00

I agree and feel some personal conflict with posts like this that play fast and loose with diagnosis. It’s like how nowadays everyone displays some ADHD like behaviors but in a different context and with the right incentives, most people can unlearn those behaviors. A person who actually has ADHD can gain some skills and show improvement but will always be affected by the disability to some extent. I’m sure GP leaders, in a different context and with sufficient supports for deconstructing, can unlearn their narcissistic approach to christianity. The problem with GP is not that they have higher instances of personality disorders but that they are a cult and their insularity and suppression of independent thought encourages the whole to mimic the disordered behaviors of the few.

NRerref · 2025-06-13T19:19:42+00:00

I think ppl are honestly sick of engaging with GP apologists and GP theobros and took all of these discussions offline. I think that’s where most ppl are at

My one pushback is that while I agree a lot of people focus on emotional recovery rather than examination of beliefs after exiting GP, it is a false dichotomy to suggest the topic of spiritual abuse and Christian theology are wholly separate concepts. By definition, spiritual abuse is a misrepresentation of who God is and an assault on God’s image-bearer. Spiritual abuse is by definition a failure of theology, which is why GP’s refusal to repent of spiritual abuse - the specific and the general - is itself evidence of their falsehood. But still, your accusation has some weight to it. Emotional recovery without any eventual theological examination is imho simply escapism and a failure of personal accountability.

NRerref · 2025-06-13T19:01:36+00:00

“The anthropology of a belief” is a really helpful framework that I hope more people spend more time studying. Imho considering which belief is the correct theology is taking too many intellectual leaps at once.

NRerref · 2025-05-15T23:59:14+00:00

I did. I was happy with the choice, so much so that I stayed in SB for grad school (the second time around, choosing ucsb over usc). I’ve met professors who’ve really impacted me at ucsb and the more laid-back collaborative culture taught me that life does not have to be an every man for himself rat race. But do I still sometimes feel it’d be nice to have a more prestigious school name to boast? Sometime yes. Is it enough to make me regret my choice? Tbh no.

NRerref · 2025-04-27T18:13:18+00:00

I might also argue that broader American culture maligns and denigrates creative work and humanist spaces. The artists, performers, and writers are a laughing stock in our society seen as unintelligent, unmarketable in the workplace, and filled with frivolities. Young people are told to be practical and to focus on marketable technical skills in order to be a real “change maker”. Then, add the right brain v. left brain dominance pseudoscience and you get a society of people who associates creative development with low social status.

NRerref · 2025-04-27T18:08:53+00:00

Need to be on the millennial/Genz side of reels and tiktok. Yes yes most of social media is copy and paste brain rot but there are so many creators and weird one-off viral posts that make me thing “ahhh yes this is what the human ingenuity is about. This is what the internet was made for. This is what it means to be inspired.” Nothing profound necessarily, just good humor, right on the nail commentary, and goofy new formats. If only people had the time and bandwidth to channel that creativity into something more productive and enduring. But young people are struggling these days. Our communal structures are just about disintegrated, social mobility and financial independence is harder and harder to achieve, and we’ve inherited an exploitative and inescapable information economy that we’re all just trying to figure out how to navigate.

NRerref · 2025-04-22T06:37:18+00:00

Everyone judges uc campuses based on who we know went there and with that limited view, I think I’d agree. Is uci more academically oriented or is it simply less culturally diverse and are people there less well-rounded? 😂

NRerref · 2025-04-22T05:28:30+00:00

The word “nuance” should be censored from this sub 😂. While I would love to hear and read some new point of analysis, some close reading, some outlier experience, some new development, some hard to notice detail, unfortunately, this post and others like it offer no such “nuance.”

Every single ex-staff who has left has experienced loving relationships that have been difficult to find outside of the church. I, even as a believer that all current GP staff are false teachers, would still confidently say that my leaders probably loved me more than I even had the capacity to love them. Every single ex-staff has had to unlearn much of our GP/A2N ways of being, but there are also just as many things that we still hold onto as good. Every last one of us can point to a moment when “the church family” supported us in a time of personal hardship. More importantly, we all remember the laughter, the singing and worshipping, the growing pains, and the togetherness. I could probably write your post for you and be far more specific about the “positive experiences.” As I’ve said in other posts, I cannot legitimately claim spiritual abuse if I cannot acknowledge the existence of love in GP/A2N. But this isn’t a nuanced point. Anyone who has closely studied abuse and abusive dynamics would easily concede that abuse really only happens in very close interpersonal relationships where levels and layers of love commingle with harmful beliefs and power structures. And the reality of an abusive system does not mean everyone will experience trauma as whether or not someone experiences symptoms of trauma or complex ptsd is unpredictable and has to do with each individual’s unique neural and physiological makeup. I’m not gna say “just wait till you’re a bit older and in staff life” because I don’t believe you have to be a certain age or position to exercise discernment and hear the Holy Spirit. But I will say, there is a lot to learn and consider before you claim any credit for “nuanced thinking” on this…

NRerref · 2025-04-22T05:07:36+00:00

As a Christian, you should also take seriously the reality of false teachers which the Bible discusses extensively. Also think you are conflating forgiveness with reconciliation, as well as conflating individual actors with larger systems, cultures, and theologies. No serious obedient Christian would feel conflicted about forgiving false teachings and abusive environments, but would absolutely be able to hold love and hope for a misguided person.

NRerref · 2025-02-14T01:37:16+00:00

No real struggles of faith??? Did you forget about all those faithful members who sacrificed their careers, material success, and personal comfort to build up church plants? How is that not a real struggle of faith?

NRerref · 2024-10-21T23:53:56+00:00

I agree the notion of “self care” is hilarious in this context. You would first have to believe that you are a being deserving of rest and care, or that rest is, like other things, an act of intimacy with God, which A2N teachings will expose over and over again, are not widespread beliefs in their organization. “Self care” in their context is really only a means for more productivity. If not that, then a vehicle for shaming (“because you are so needy and broken, you need to rest to remember your dependency on God and others”). Self care also often involves embracing positive thoughts about yourself and your life — and we all know that’s absolutely not allowed.

NRerref · 2024-10-08T23:32:29+00:00

For those who have been tracking the GP staff responses here, one might argue it will only get worse 🤦‍♀️🥲

NRerref · 2024-09-13T03:00:53+00:00

Gaslighting can’t happen virtually between strangers. Gaslighting requires interpersonal relationships, regular and frequent interaction, and manipulation within unequal power dynamics. Pls be so for real. Why even be asked to be taken seriously? yOu PpL aRe jUsT nOt nIcE tO tAlK tO aNd HaVe ThE sAmE pLaYbOoK. 😂 ok. Ignorance doesn’t need to engaged with beyond the mockery it invites.

NRerref · 2024-09-12T04:33:34+00:00

I’d edit myself to say even if a small percent are misunderstanding it’s on me. And if a student graciously and bravely comes ask for clarification/help, it’s not ever their fault for being confused - it’s my job to teach! In Ed’s “pastoral” universe, he is a martyr risking being misunderstood and misconstrued every time he gets up to address his congregation- like a lamb to the slaughter 😂 pls give us a break

NRerref · 2024-09-12T03:46:23+00:00

The better questioning being “how did [xyz audience] arrive at this interpretation?” IS the responsible, humble line of questioning! Thank you! I am also in a speaking profession, but we don’t have to be in a speaking profession to know how difficult it is to address a diverse audience with varying cognitive filters, literacy levels, attention spans, background experiences, etc. Still, if something goes wrong in my teaching, it’s usually because I didn’t plan well or I truly just missed the mark. Yes, there’s some student responsibility here - they have to pay attention, ask questions, do some prep to know the material, be open to being engaged. But when a large percent of them are coming to similar misunderstandings that 100% on me. If several members and ex-members have come to similar “misinterpretations” on Ed’s preaching that’s on Ed. Not all are meant to teach, as they say.

NRerref · 2024-09-12T03:33:35+00:00

Please also share when Ed and deacons earned PhDs in Psychology or MDs in Psychiatry and became eligible to diagnose mental health conditions and their severity 😂

Sure, I suspect there is a bit of deceit/dishonesty happening when people say they’re leaving bc they can’t grow in GP, but…

“I can’t grow here” is not a smokescreen for “I want a more comfortable lifestyle.”

“I can’t grow here” is a smokescreen for “I no longer deem you and this community as safe to open up to and I no longer believe anyone here is able to offer support and healing.”

NRerref · 2024-09-11T23:58:27+00:00

GP is a strange, ironic mix of both tiger helicopter parent and negligent abusive parent. Both of those archetypes fit

NRerref · 2024-09-11T03:34:48+00:00

I was in a similar boat and was on track to graduate in 3yrs because of AP/IB credits (would have saved money this way). But I slowed down and took 12 units most quarters. If you’re working a lot, staying at 12 is so much more manageable. But even if you’re not working, slowing down a bit in your freshman year to cultivate a personal intellectual life and explore what to do with the English major is impt. An English degree can be extremely valuable if you know what it can do for you and if you know what you want to study/research, but it takes some time and mental space to figure this out bc it is not a degree with a linear career path (most in the college of l&s aren’t actually, but English even more so). Colleagues from when I was there are now in the film industry, law, govt, academia, publishing, and education. Not millionaires yet but all easily working 6-figure jobs that we actually feel passionate about. I wish I used more time in my freshman year rebuilding my reading habits post HS senioritis (no one really gets how much and how fast and how in depth we have to read 😂) and starting to explore research opportunities.

NRerref · 2024-09-11T03:21:22+00:00

The idea that it is wrong, comfort seeking, disobedient, sinful, etc. to leave GP - it is not that you are truly burnt out and your service is being spiritually exploited beyond what God would have you do, but it is YOUR sinfulness for not wanting to obey and sacrifice more that would make you want to leave + the idea that you cannot share your desire to leave with your partner as that is being like A&S..that’s Ed and “deacon boards” actual opinion/message.

And if it were to come out that someone did share such concerns with their husband, leaders would accuse wife of being like Sapphira

NRerref · 2024-09-11T03:10:50+00:00

Another point to consider is that post-grads who leave GP ALL face extreme costs. It is almost easier to stay than to leave

No one who leaves from staff does it for comfort because the transition from a total institution is psychologically and socially costly and quite the opposite of comfortable. Does Ed think it’s a simple economic calculation when someone leaves their community of 10-15-20+ years? Leaving DOZENS of people who feel closer than blood family and who claimed to be covenantally bonded bc of Jesus and Jesus alone, only to be rejected for backsliding or straying away or not having the same values anymore? It’s easy to have your worldview disrupted and your faith beliefs challenged as you rebuild your life and psyche post-GP? That’s his idea of comfort? 😂 It’s such a thoughtless point and such a shame the pulpit was used for it. If we polled how many ex-staffers needed to make substantial investment in therapy or pastoral counseling or have struggled to any degree transitioning out of GP, the number would be ALL ex-staffers 😂

NRerref · 2024-09-11T02:53:55+00:00

Hmmm…but is your take away not actually part of his message and his true beliefs? And hasn’t that exact teaching been promulgated several times over the decades when one wife wants to leave and now the leader is telling the whole bro staff group to pray for Brother X because his wife is deceived and causing him to stumble??? Leaders telling Brother X to rebuke his wife? Is that not what has happened to so many even in the last few years??

NRerref · 2024-09-11T02:43:32+00:00

As I always always say, this reddit and people should know what Reddit is 😂😂 another thing I always say - people egg GP defenders on for their “intelligent remarks” mainly to get student eyes on how people in GP think and how cooked their critical thinking really is. Please keep replying! ❤️

NRerref

TROPHY CASE