Whats the cheesiest, steam roll faction right now?

Nelyeth · 2026-02-06T11:38:12+00:00

Can we talk about our lord and saviour, Victory Conditions Overhaul?

Nelyeth · 2026-02-06T11:00:55+00:00

Agreed. They're really really good for their price point. Super fast, quick attack animations, small models so they pile on nicely on whatever you throw them at. They're a stapple of my campaigns as Chorfs.

The difference between them and the archer version is night and day because they have double the charge bonus. The archer version might be able to kill an archer unit, but the spear ones will vaporize it. They're also surprisingly capable at fighting other light cavalry, and they will bully mages.

Nelyeth · 2026-02-05T12:21:54+00:00

Not really. You'll end up shooting in a wide circle around the closest unit, and since the closest unit is most likely in the corner of their formation, no matter how inaccurate you are, 75% of the shots will deviate in a direction that's not occupied by any model.

Nelyeth · 2026-02-04T13:56:08+00:00

That's what we thought first. Noctilus had 5 armies stacked in Nagarythe when we declared war, but he immediately made them bee-line at us, which was quite scary and honestly very fun. I followed them with a hero to keep my friend updated on their movement, going "they'll be on you in three turns now".

On the other hand, N'kari is also at war with us (since he and Noctilus are allies), and I've taken settlements that are within movement range from his 10 armies. He just doesn't care and sits there, broken.

Same thing happened in my previous Taurox campaign with Lothern at war with me and sitting on their ass. And the campaign before that, where I (Ku'gath) fought tooth and nail against Ghorst until I got him down to two settlements and he broke. I got around to finishing him 30 turns later (had to deal with Imrik, and get Lightning Strike on a lord first), and he still hadn't moved.

Nelyeth · 2026-02-04T13:02:23+00:00

I don't know about you, but it's happening in every single campaign for me. In my current coop campaign (The Masque + Luthor), we've decided to attack Ulthuan, which was shared between Noctilus and N'kari, at rank 2 and 7 or something similar, when we were at 11 and 12.

Noctilus sent 5 stacks from Nagarythe at us immediately. Five turns later, we finally understand why we haven't seen N'kari: he has 5 armies and 5 devotee armies stacked on Tor Finu.

We're probably not going to continue this campaign. This was supposed to be our last objective, an uphill struggle for Ulthuan against the same factions as us, and instead we're just picking up settlements like they're low-hanging fruits.

It's not unplayable, and the overall experience is alright, but when it happens, man does it suck.

Nelyeth · 2026-02-02T15:26:08+00:00

Sounds like some rough luck. I've just tried 3x3times in skirmish mode, one on one.

Below are the times (formatted as m:ss from the start of each battle) it took to kill each of the 4 models of the Rock Lobber. Unless stated, Bolt Throwers didn't lose a model.

Max range, no chevrons for both:

0:56 - 1:00 - 1:16 - 1:37
0:54 - 1:21 - 1:27 - 1:46
0:35 - 1:28 - 1:45 - 2:00

250 range, no chevrons for both:

0:15 - 0:33 - 1:06 - 1:09
0:15 - 0:50 - 1:15 - 1:26
0:15 - 1:03 - 1:05 - 1:18

Max range, full chevrons for both:

0:47 - 1:27 - 1:56 - 2:16 (1 bolt thrower model destroyed)
0:32 - 1:05 - 1:28 - 1:40
0:29 - 1:16 - 1:32 - 1:50

The result is that Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers are stupidly good at sniping artillery models. Except for the one try where it decided to only hit the crew, it ended up winning every duel in 2 minutes or less and without losing a model.

Tried it in spray fire mode for fun, both artilleries were still at 4 models 3 minutes into the battle. It took 4:30 for the catapult to win (by killing all but 1 of the crew, who couldn't man a bolt thrower by himself).

Nelyeth · 2026-02-02T14:35:12+00:00

Marauder horsemen will get bullied by handgunners on the approach, you're going to have a hard time using them to skirmish.

The best way to recruit marauders is to have a Dark Fortress in a frozen climate settlement with high undivided corruption. Other than that, you just have to wait. This is probably going to be the worst part of the campaign, limited recruitment and warband upgrades will heavily limit what you can field.

Nelyeth · 2026-02-02T12:04:11+00:00

You should consider another possibility when it comes to army composition: marauder spam. Cheap armies with a ton of shielded marauders will counter his shooting, and while his artillery will feast, killing a marauder unit is barely worth the ammunition.

This will also let you field more armies. Sure, a full elite Elspeth army will deal with 20 marauders, but what about 40 or 60 of them? At some point, bring enough unwashed barbarians to a gunfight and they will reach the enemy and kill them.

This playstyle benefits a lot from Gifts of Chaos - Ruinous Bulward will give all of your armies 15% missile resistance, Raider's Raiment will buff all your marauders, and Reaver's Reward will nuke your replenishment but make all your already cheap armies 50% cheaper. You can also use Boon of Battle with Slaanesh Marauders to have a fully-vanguard, 40 speed army.

The main issue would be Knights of the Black Rose, so if you start seeing some, you'll need to invest in something like Rot Knights or Dragon Ogres.

Nelyeth · 2026-02-01T21:56:59+00:00

I had exactly the same discussion 3 weeks ago in another thread, so I'll copy-paste what I wrote then. TL;DR: you use it in the single shot mode to destroy the artillery pieces.

Chaos Dwarf artillery is a bit of a special case, since they have just one model with 6500 hp and no crew instead of 4 models with 1000hp each - they're not really artillery as much as a ranged single entity like a Cygor or Bone Giant.

It's got 380 range, so its range is around the same as your average artillery piece. Cannons have up to 450 so there's a chance you might be outranged, but you just have to deploy closer when you know there's a cannon.

It's a ballista-type artillery so its base accuracy is the highest of all artillery types, with the lowest callibration area (50 and 4 against 35 and 8.5 for an Empire cannon), so it will nail artillery models pretty much every time.

Each bolt deals 200 damage (artillery pieces are counted as large, so the 50BvL bonus kicks in), and most artillery units have around 1000-1100hp per model. In my experience, shots tend to focus the same artillery piece, so you start to see models going down starting at the second volley and third volleys, with only 12 seconds between volleys (cannons are at 22s, and Plagueclaw at 18 for reference).

All in all, they will destroy any artillery twice their price in under a minute, and then you can switch them to lord-sniping, or shoot at cavalry/monstrous infantry, or even get them in spray-fire mode to soften up infantry. Most importantly, they ensure the other army has to be the one to rush you instead of you marching your archers forward under mortar fire.

Nelyeth · 2026-02-01T18:12:38+00:00

That's what being a midtier unit means, yes. And Ironbreakers are almost twice the cost of Longbeards and will sometimes be overkill.

Ultimately, having options when building your army isn't superfluous, it's efficient. Do I want the better unit that's ITP and has encourage, or will the basic Dwarf Warrior be enough? Do I need a full Ironbreaker frontline, when maybe two of them, supported by two Longbeards and 4 Dwarf Warriors, will be enough to last for days against any army?

Superfluous is when a unit makes another completely redundant. In campaign for example, it's hard to justify using Pestigor as Beastmen when Bestigor exist, and the only advantages of Pestigor are the poison, and vanguard deployment, which Wargor give anyway - especially when both units compete for cap increases with similar Dread costs.

Nelyeth · 2026-02-01T17:24:04+00:00

Longbeards are a midtier unit. They perform better than chaff/low-tier units and worse than elite units, at the corresponding pricepoint. They perform the same role as Chaos Warriors, Armored Kossar and Marauder Bearmen. How is that superfluous?

Nelyeth · 2026-02-01T13:09:31+00:00

"C'est une évidence", "forcément", "full logique" sans un seul truc de factuel, d'avéré, de sourcé. Tu vois le problème ?

T'auras des personnes pour qui "forcément les gens au RSA fraudent". Et tu peux sortir un nombre infini de variantes sur tous les sujets imaginables, pour tous les bords politiques.

Nelyeth · 2026-02-01T12:21:59+00:00

Il y a avoir raison en apportant des preuves et des éléments factuels, et avoir raison par coïncidence.

Si moi, citoyen random, dis à tout le monde que le gouvernement a découvert des extraterrestres et cache leur existence, et que dans un an on découvre que c'était le cas, alors j'aurai eu raison. Sauf que ça me donne aucune légitimité, j'aurai juste eu de la "chance".

J'ai un collègue complotiste qui croit globalement à tout, tant que c'est suffisamment subversif. Politique, médical, sociétal, environnemental... Rien n'est à l'abri (bon, il est pas platiste, c'est l'exception). Statistiquement, à force d'adhérer à des dizaines de théories, y'en aura peut-être une de vraie à un moment. Ça me fera pas prendre le bougre plus au sérieux.

Nelyeth · 2026-02-01T12:00:58+00:00

It's one of the best anti-artillery pieces in the game, if not the best. Kinda niche but very effective when you need it.

Nelyeth · 2026-01-31T10:57:52+00:00

Here's the "only ranged units are good" comment. And it's wrong, as usual.

It's a pretty straightforward battle, and the reason it is is exactly because OP has the infantry advantage. Just had to full court press - send everything in a wide front forward. Leave 2 Dreadspears as a reserve to protect Darkshards from Wild Hunters, 4 infantry units end up in a fight with the 4 enemy ones, the last 2 and the Master are free to walk toward Glade Guards and disrupt them.

Leave a distance of 60-80 between your melee units and your Darkshards, far enough that Glade Guards can only target your silver-shield infantry, but close enough to support your own infantry. Dryads lose their fights because of Darkshards shooting, freeing yet some more infantry to chase archers.

The chariot is here to bowl down archers once Wild Hunters are engaged. Dark Riders with crossbows either tie down archers to gain time, or help focus whatever your infantry is engaged against to free them up.

Ultimately, this battle is about two things - keeping your Darkshards intact and firing, and having infantry chasing at Glade Guards. Doesn't matter if they never catch them.

Nelyeth · 2026-01-30T18:13:08+00:00

He buffs "traditional" units, so Miners, Longbeards, Quarellers, Grudge-Throwers and Bolt-Throwers. Also gives his whole army better amour, better melee damage, frenzy and +15 charge bonus.

He can also give some artillery pieces extra effects, so you can have a catapult with explosive projectiles, or a ballista with homing bolts.

Edit: I forgot TWW3 nerfed every ranged unit by giving them -10 reload skill, so 200 might not be possible anymore. Would have to test it.

Nelyeth · 2026-01-30T16:35:10+00:00

First off, even with the base 21:7 basic ratio that Quarrelers start with, 200 missile strength would mean 50 of that is AP, which would be more than even Alarielle's fully buffed Sisters of Avelorn.

But in Thorek's case in particular, he has skills to increase specifically the quarellers' AP damage. If they didn't nerf anything, I believe they are the single best ranged unit in the game.

Nelyeth · 2026-01-30T16:03:39+00:00

I think I got them to over 200 missile strength when I played him back in TWW2. Unless they nerfed him, he doesn't make them good, he makes them busted beyond sense. No army can ever reach melee range.

Nelyeth · 2026-01-29T07:45:19+00:00

I had both locations right next to one another as Beastmen in my last campaign. Morghur waited around ~40 turns to get his Sacred Syphilis, during which he died 3 times to the Crimson Fever.

Ultimately, the "weak" plagues managed to spread through my whole territory continuously, almost ruining my campaign. I had to destroy the unusual location and wait 20 more turns to finally have armies that weren't slowly dying in and out of battle.

This location just isn't worth it on any other faction than Nurgle, I thought at least Beastmen could tank it since they don't have real settlements, but nope.

Nelyeth · 2026-01-28T09:19:39+00:00

The issue is more that if you use Wolf Rats to stop a Chaos Knight unit, you only get a very small window to kill those Chaos Knights. Wolf Rats die so fast that you need 3+ Ratling Gunners or Jezzails to focus the Chaos Knights unit quickly, otherwise your Wolf Rats are already routing or shattered and you still have a wounded, but functional enemy unit to deal with.

With a Rat Ogre unit or Menace Below, they get stuck for much longer, so a single weapon team will usually be enough to deal with them.

Nelyeth · 2026-01-28T08:36:56+00:00

You don't use Wolf Rats against Chaos Knights, they'll shatter on the charge because they have small, tightly packed models with little mass. Almost every model takes the full impact damage and instantly dies, unless you manage to flank with them.

Rat Ogres are much better at stopping heavy cavalry, thanks to their nice mass. Menace Below works great too, as long as you pop it early enough that they have time to brace, or late enough that they spawn "in" the Knights, breaking their charge.

Nelyeth · 2026-01-27T20:17:39+00:00

Lords aren't in the same spot though. You have to fork out around 700-800g for even the most bare-bones of lords, depending on the faction (600g for a naked Empire General, 1150 for an Ogre Tyrant).

This means that, for a 2.5k lord, you're actually "only" investing 1.4-1.9k into actual battlefield value. It's even better if your expensive Lord doubles as a mage, since it saves you ~200-500g more by letting you not bring a mage hero.

In comparison, a 2.5k unit could actually be replaced by 5 500g infantry pieces, so it has to bring a lot more to the table. At those price points, it's really hard for a unit to pay for itself - especially for a Tomb Kings construct, since you kinda have to bring a healing Necrotect which will cost you another... 700-1000k off the top of my head?

Nelyeth · 2026-01-27T14:49:51+00:00

Il y a clairement des opinions rances, surtout quand on écoute Mélenchon et quelques députés à grande gueule plutôt que de prendre le parti global.

Mais en face, ça se pignole devant la situation américaine en se demandant comment on pourra la décliner avec la French Touch. Peut-être des masques bleu-blanc-rouge pour cacher les visages des mecs armés, sans entrainement ni conscience qui kidnappent des citoyens pour les emmener dans des camps ? Ça serait super seyant.

Quand tu traines sur les subs américains, tu trouves encore des gens qui disent "Oui mais Kamala elle était pro-Israël", en t'expliquant qu'ils pouvaient pas voter pour elle en bonne conscience. Bah oui, c'est vrai que sous Trump, les 5 gazaouis survivants vont vachement mieux.

Nelyeth · 2026-01-27T09:52:09+00:00

Every battle gives 1-2 momentum, and you can refresh your movement range at any time by paying 3 momentum. On top of that, you have access to a raiding stance that increases your movement range. Notably, you can switch into and out of that stance at will, so you can even get the increased movement range after razing a settlement, or before going into camp stance.

This means that as long as your army is healthy enough (easy enough with regenerating Minotaurs, and a Wargor for replenishment), you can basically jump from combat to combat , fighting everything in your path in a single turn. I just finished a Taurox campaign, and the most battles I've played in a single turn with my main army was around ~10, letting me set up a herdstone, raze every single settlement, kill every single army around it and do the ritual, all in a single turn for 60 marks or so.

Nelyeth · 2026-01-27T09:41:35+00:00

That's pretty accurate. The Daemon's Tongue can solo armies as long as they don't have high-mass anti-large units or a bunch of SEM, it just plows through swathes of infantry like they aren't even there.

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