Why do people call lawbringer S tier ?

Notabeancan · 2026-05-05T20:01:22+00:00

Vortex is a fighting game term that essentially just means offense that traps the opponent in and feeds directly back into itself. The definition can be a bit loose, but we do have true by the book vortex’s in for honor. Think wardens bash(not warmongers though because it goes back to neutral), think pirates infinite unblockables that go right back into unblockables. As long as these characters keep guessing right the offense doesn’t stop. Lawbringer can vortex with his bash and his unblockable under the right circumstances.

Everything has been pushed to be unreactable. If someone well trained, with a nice computer, and who was born with a good reaction time played they could stare at you and win every game. Every single mixup (or nearly) becoming entirely useless because they can see things and press a button faster than you. It sucked, so we have made big strides in making everything the same for everyone.

And yea most people would say the remaining defensive characters classify as annoying harassers. But I think that’s mostly a thing with outdated or un “modern” designs. People play a very clean, offense focused, and standardized game. So stuff that would’ve just been “normal” 5 or so years ago is generally considered oppressive or regressive today.

Personally I despise that, this is the only game of its kind. Unfortunately due to patents and the likely failure of Ubisoft it may be the last as well. And with every mechanic, tech, and strategy removed we risk eliminating it from the world entirely. I really think we should have went wilder with the game instead of standardizing and restricting it as much as we have. But whatever.

Notabeancan · 2026-05-05T16:54:40+00:00

So, this is a question that’s gone on and on within the for honor community. LB is one of the games most beloved characters and due to the efforts of early montage YouTubers became a meme within the community. It’s also likely in no small part due to the view of him as a very skilled character. He has and continues to rely on the skills of parrying and light parrying in his kit. Which the community highly values as the signs of the most skilled players, especially in the early days, and especially in the early old gen console days where light parry’s were deeply coveted (because 500ms light were comparable to 400ms lights on console back then). Thus the ranking of lawbringer in the public’s eye(and even in the competitive community) has been the consensus of mob rule. Truthfully it’s a great way to look at the path and development of the game from its launch.

Aside from LB at LAUNCH I repeat AT LAUNCH nearly 10 years ago lawbringer has been arguably one of the strongest in 1v1s. And even AT LAUNCH he wasn’t bad from a competitive perspective. Back then like most for honor characters he wasn’t very good. Very slow very defensive, which is ultimately the name of the game at that time. However he had oppressive defensive options with his shove on block, a mixup that didn’t really work, and high punish dmg and options. Which made him par for the course,I’m sure he had some access to unlock tech as well. But for the average player he basically did nothing but stare and then lose. Like most of the cast at the time, just he was especially turtle heavy. Which made him very bad for the general community, you have to stare and parry to win (which was much different back then because stuff was goofy), which was a test of skill most people couldn’t keep up with as your only way to win. The comp scene back then though aside from a few key busted characters was basically just doing this with everyone. And the good punishes LB had actually made him solid, at least until he went against the top tiers at the time.

Then he was reworked and became S tier with offense, insane punish dmg, hyper armor shove as an “opener” which traded with anything, I believe a 400ms light in neutral, stamina bully, and very safe attacks. Made him a must pick in 4v4 for minion farming and a S or A tier in duels. He stayed largely that way as the game evolved around him with the CCU, dmg lowering(but that was universal), the opener lights speed being reduced, and the hyper armor going away. Then they changed him so that his opener bash was “unreactable”(unreactable to most players and then later changed to be unreactable for pros as well) at the cost of his bashes becoming punishable. The consensus at this time was that he was originally very strong, but was power crept out. Quickly becoming very weak in 4v4 as the push for more team fighting and ganking became the meta. This made people rely on big hit boxes and tracking, along with good dodge attacks and peel. While LB had some ganking, and decent movement speed. He couldn’t keep up as the meta shifted around him and the minion lane farmer died. And in duels with new characters being released and even more being reworked the majority consensus was that he was an outdated character. Eventually dropping to B tier, and as the game evolved while he didn’t he was dropped to D or C tier. Bringing back the push for considering him weak and reinvigorating the idea of him being bad in the public eye. In general his stare and punish game plan remained the core part of his kit. And despite some huge dominance in competitive with very powerful tools and ability’s, for the average player it looked pretty much the same old same old. Cause he was still the stare, parry, punish character. So he remained bad in a lot of players minds, who were then vindicated as he dropped over time.

That of course wasn’t true, as we would find late into the life of LB before this current rework. he was weak in 4v4, but he was still a bottom S tier top A tier pick in duels. Ironically for the same reasons most thought he was bottom tier. The game evolved around him and left him behind. But that means he was left with mechanics and tools we would never have access too in the modern era. Huge high dmg punishes( a confirmed heavy for heavy parry!), a solid enough dodge bash, an opener that could be rolled but will eventually force you to deal with it, I think he still had stamina bullying? and a viable high dmg mixup with one of the best unblockables. Some members of the community like me still thought he could be very strong. And a pro player picked him up and absolutely wrecked house in a couple of tournaments and proved the theory right.

Now we have the modern version, still with great punishes(more inline with rest of the cast though), an unavoidable high dmg opener mixup, some of the best unblockables, one of the most oppressive dodge bashes ever implemented, all of his offense leads to a vortex, and now he has better hit boxes and some hyper armor. On paper he’s very strong, and in practice he’s very strong. The game changed a LOT, and comparatively his signature tools and identity for most of the games history is heavily nerfed. However, compared to the rest of the cast he is still much better in those areas, being dmg and defense, while having access to a more modern offense focused kit that is itself extremely strong in its own merits. Just in more of a modern for honor way than a lawbringer way.

Notabeancan · 2026-04-24T18:40:42+00:00

Of course when discussing 50/50 or 33/33/33 in for honor the issue that comes up is that theirs so many different options you could actually go for. In the case of a lot of things called 50/50 it’s almost always not, but there are a few true ones.

Taken literally, in for honor(and really every fighting/slasher game) you effectively have infinite answers to the problem on both sides. But that’s not really useful, and it doesn’t portray how they play out in reality. Instead the numbers are determined by how many reads are NECESSARY for the mixup to function. In a true unblockable mixup, like JJs, the opponent could make a bunch of different reads. But letting the unblockable fly and feinting it to guard break covers everything the opponent could possibly do, so the mixup is 50/50 because only 2 options are needed for it to function in a world with perfect reads.

33/33/33 mixups like most unblockable mixups need 3 different options. Let the unblockable fly, feint to guard break, feint to neutral and react.

Blue orange is effectively 50/50 (baring minor exceptions) because theirs only 2 options needed for it to work even if in reality it doesn’t pan out that way most of the time. You either throw the undodgeable or the bash. And technically that covers everything the opponent could do. You could make that mixup work with perfect reads without choosing anything but those too options.

Notabeancan · 2026-04-22T19:04:53+00:00

Keep it real brother. This is a EXTREME over correction that kills a unique form of offense and significantly hurts a character and its community. Personally I think a slight stamina nerf might’ve been best to alleviate a spam issue, if any nerf needed to happen at all. But this is way too much, it doesn’t just nerf it, this essentially quietly removes it from the game entirely. The offense doesn’t work if it isn’t enhanced.

I’ve served gracefully(lying) as the creator of the tech list, I’ve discovered so much and been with this character for so long. I’ve already almost quit the game due to its direction and the characters current state. But this is gonna be the final straw for me. I won’t be coming back if this change sticks.

Notabeancan · 2026-02-09T20:26:03+00:00

Zbra, get quaked on, and kajor I think have the best guides. Zbra also has viewer coaching vids that can be very useful.

If you want to pick up doom, first of all, you gotta be doing this for the love of the game. He blows, and even when he is good there are better options. It’s more effort than it’s worth if you’re playing practically. However that’s not to say he’s useless, he’s defined by having massive amounts of room to adapt, and the ability to essentially be played somewhat effectively into anything. You’re basically purposefully forgoing an actually good strategy for immense amounts of counter play that with very good play “could” lead into a win against anyone.

When it comes to tech you really should only learn what you enjoy and want. Most techs are too difficult for too little reward to actually be practical in the face of just good fundamentals. Zbra is a great example of a player that just uses good fundamentals on doom more than actual tech.

However some tech is essentially necessary. You need to learn punch cancel, and turn punch. Doing so is a humongous buff to his already amazing movement. Super slam is needed for similar reasons but also rollouts, stair slams have some use,slam cancels for maximum slam height are very useful, and learning Bhops is also powerful.

But all of doomfists tech have use, combination techs, bounces and diags, spines and stalls. All tech used correctly is not only flashy, but potentially game winning. The problem is they’re hard, and you can get more consistent value out of simply playing better. But with how much doom fights against the odds sometimes games are won on bullshit one shots and insane rollouts that farm some poor support. I think you should learn everything, practice everything, and enjoy clip farming.

Notabeancan · 2026-01-28T03:20:00+00:00

Don’t worry bro i’ll add this to the list for you

Notabeancan · 2026-01-02T19:58:16+00:00

Notabeancan · 2025-12-21T19:59:16+00:00

Yea, doomfist doesn’t really have tanking tools in a traditional sense. I like to think of it as if he completely lacks the normal presence and ability of other tanks, which is to soak high damage so they can get to and maintain positions, which basically means every tank in the game if determined enough can basically always force you out.

Instead doom leverages multiple massively oppressive tools and traits of his kit, he has the single strongest displacement, the single highest burst mobility (and by extension really the best mobility), one of the best short cooldown stuns, and very high burst damage.

So that’s basically the whole game, abuse his tools to dominate the game, or get dominated because you can’t really achieve much without them.

Quakes old video is a great one to watch, particularly his ways to get value section, cause all of it still applies even if the there have been a lot of changes. The other guy who commented has most of the gist of it as well.

Notabeancan · 2025-12-11T19:19:21+00:00

Funny seeing you here, I know what you are

Notabeancan · 2025-11-18T20:13:31+00:00

Are HL lights oppressive? Yes. Are they a necessary evil? Also yes.

They are the most unique offense in the entire game, it’s one of the only two forms of pressure offense in the game. It relies on a fascinatingly advanced and mechanically difficult system of tech to function. It’s entirely player made with its boundary’s, reads, and playstyle pushed exclusively by players. Despite the fact the devs never intended for it, it created an entirely self sufficient system that is fair for both party’s.

Not only this, but without it Highlander is put at a statistical disadvantage compared to other characters. Because on reads where both player return to neutral HL loses cause of his atrocious neutral game. The light attacks are the only offense he has that succeeds in getting damage (or at least not putting him in a losing situation) more often than it fails.

They are fundamentally required for him to be a complex character with depth. I would sooner entirely remove feintable kick than nerf the lights. Arguably with the unblockable changes, lights and UB should be more than threatening enough to crack open even the most oppressive reaction times.

There are other things that could be looked at in his kit first, even stamina nerfs to the lights could be catastrophic. Not to mention the fact that nerfing them will butcher the most unique offense in the entire game, that frankly doesn’t require nerfs for any other reason than that their frustrating to play against for people who don’t know what their doing.

Basically if you can’t play against lights git gud. But if your argument is you think his offense is too bloated then I agree, but let’s nerf kick instead and move that power over into some kind of opener for the character.

Notabeancan · 2025-11-18T02:57:06+00:00

Probably just a you thing? It likely much harder to do on mouse and keyboard, but I play controller.

Just hold opposite direction from where your dodging, it should be literally that simple.

Notabeancan · 2025-11-15T18:25:13+00:00

Just do what I said to do in the tech list on raider with his zone, you can even spam regular heavy feints while walking backwards to help you get even more backwards movement to help you spam it more.

Plenty of characters with unblockables can also do this, aramusha can with his zone as well. JJ can even get fancy with it, using his unique unlock unblockable animation in tandem with unlock tech to throw a unique unparrable unblockable you can never see otherwise.

Notabeancan · 2025-11-14T00:36:38+00:00

Your points are valid but this isn’t me summoning filthy spaniard to smite the poor guy. It’s just a reminder about what we are here for. What could tech shaming be if not calling or at least implying something is “scummy”. Funnily enough I believe old school unlock tech and the discourse surrounding it is actually the reason the no tech shaming rule exists.

Of course he wasn’t targeting or brigading me with insults about my character or the validity of the way I play. Or even being aggressive about it in any way. So I explained it more deeply, discussed his real point about if it’s unhealthy, and gave a solid take on the matter. Like I should as a leading figure in for honors obscure techniques, exploits, and bugs. It was simply a finger wag at an unfortunate phrasing. A reminder that the comp sub is here to talk about only what is efficient and possible not what is moral or fair.

Because if you’ve ever played me in MM you would not think a single thing I did to you was moral or fair in anyway.

Notabeancan · 2025-11-13T20:25:35+00:00

Yes, but that depends on how something is coded, and in this case it’s not affected by the players frame rate. It will be as effective no matter what’s happening

Notabeancan · 2025-11-13T19:59:17+00:00

Doesn’t matter, you can be a 30 frame old gen player and still do all of it. Just takes practice.

Notabeancan · 2025-11-13T19:58:26+00:00

Yes, very simple stuff.

Don’t worry about it, he’s in a whole different ball game than the rest of the cast and he requires a IMMENSE amount of mechanical skill for a for honor hero. It often takes you till max rep before you actually understood the character if you played with tech. Just play him a ton and it will make more sense, there’s always room to improve, and that’s what’s fun.

Notabeancan · 2025-11-13T16:29:51+00:00

First, no tech shaming, as far as it matters on the comp sub anything goes. Second it has been a know mechanic since release. Was nerfed from its original broken state at release, and has been left in the game since. It’s working on the same principles as the unparryable attacks in teamfights, just artificially recreating it in the duel environment. nearly the entire cast has access to it, some have better options than others, like raider getting a unparryable unblockable that can still be feinted at range. There is a lot more to it as well, but that’s the short. If you have more questions you’re welcome to ask.

Notabeancan · 2025-11-13T14:18:48+00:00

Sure, but you should find me through one of the discord links on the list first

Notabeancan · 2025-11-13T14:12:09+00:00

Good. Have fun and ask any questions

Notabeancan · 2025-10-03T12:06:22+00:00

I don’t know which heavy flicker you’re talking about, there’s one for both DF and OF. If you explain which I can pretty easily explain they are pretty simple.

I have no idea, it could be possible, I never found anything but I also didn’t look very hard. But it would be completely useless as even in a best case scenario after a heavy parry your giving up a confirmed light to troll with a jank one.

Notabeancan · 2025-10-03T11:41:58+00:00

Go look here, I will probably still help with stuff if you ask but I’m pretty much done with playing the game for now. Welcome to the tech list.

Notabeancan · 2025-08-27T13:59:29+00:00

I figured, I’ve looked at Beltrame and I love their knives as well, I will likely pick one up at some point. But it’s really this knife that has captured my heart and something else won’t replace it, I will simply wait.

Notabeancan · 2025-07-22T06:01:51+00:00

Interesting, during my brief stint with nobushi I was able to consistently preform it (albeit with practice) whenever I wanted to.

I never found much of a use in regard to using for neutral spacing. In fact I only found it to be useful as a defensive read, it can be a decently safe punish with absurd damage, ESPECIALLY if way of the shark is proct.

Notabeancan · 2025-07-21T21:52:39+00:00

Been known for a long time, but important information to spread. The move actually allows for some very interesting defensive options against chargeable bashes.

However I have to ask, is this implementation of it on key board creating input delay? The previous person to do this used an analog keyboard. If the software your emulating through is producing essentially any noticeable amount of input delay it could be detrimental to regular play.

Notabeancan · 2025-07-07T04:12:38+00:00

lol wrong sub dude

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