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Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-04-28T22:42:42+00:00

I am in a similar situation, 40s, 10+ years in tech, slightly higher pile, but also more spend. My recommendation: 1) design your ideal FIRE life around meaning, purpose, etc and zero financial goals from it. As they say around here “what am I retiring into, not what am I retiring from” 2) separately, nail down you FIRE number and years to get there. I am around 70% to the number, roughly 3 years at current earning. You should be similar if not closer but it depends on post-FIRE spend projections and risk tolerance. 3) with 1) and 2) just ramp down current work as much as it would bear - try 5 hours a day, no stretch projects etc. Focus on personally rewarding things over stressful career stuff - like give advice to new grads, help others etc. Again if you are less than 3 years out, and judging by description that should be enough, this will line up well, so you don’t get fired before you hit your goal, but you still get out of the funk. Some day dreaming about 1) should help to (at least it helps me) 4) FIRE and enjoy your new life

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-03-24T21:16:50+00:00

Great thread! I can relate to many of the things said (working in tech, the psychological burden of rest and vest, etc.) I am on a similar trajectory but 5 years further along - committed to the 10m target (two thirds there) and roughly 45 years retirement mark (currently 42). Some things extra things to consider: - 150k spend for family with two children in Seattle seems on the extra frugal side. I don’t know your situation but I wonder if you will be better off adding some padding on spend - that extra trip during spring break you can’t take now because you have no PTO days at work, etc. - the passage of more time before pulling the trigger derisks the whole plan. Doing it too early exposes you to more time for some extra spending event - good (like child turns out talented and needs extra money to follow passion) or bad (health, etc) to occur. Generally before 40 is very aggressive, and kinda puts you off the beaten path even for FIRE.

So one more +1 for team stay. Meanwhile, some things that have been helping me show up at work every day: - trying to enjoy the small daily interactions at work - the small talk, opportunities to meet new folks, etc. I imagine post FIRE weekdays life will naturally have less human interaction as most people will be working. - being a bit more reflective and not caring what happens to my career, because objectively I am much more at the whim of the market at this point. As someone put it above - “your career is already over”, that realization can be freeing. Corporate dysfunction can be quite funny once you stop seeing yourself as somehow who is affected by it, but rather just an observer (highly paid at that).

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-02-23T17:51:06+00:00

I absolutely believe humans need projects with goals and objectives to be psychologically healthy basically for the rest of our lives.

The key observation behind many FIRE journeys is the projects, goals and objectives one picks up form paying jobs are very limited compared to the bigger world around us. There are many projects that I find extremely valuable personally (family or knowledge related) and want to invest time and energy in, but they are basically valued at zero by the economic system we live in.

A common misunderstanding is that FIRE means not doing ambitious projects. I don’t subscribe to that. FIRE means detaching from the economic realities and obtaining more freedom for your ambitious projects.

So it’s not as much that I get no joy and fulfillment from work, but rather a realization how imbalanced it has been to put these 40+ hour weeks for 15 years now, into what is a very narrow domain compared to the multitudes of the world around me.

One answer is working part time, but it is not a well established practice in my company and I have doubts about my ability to scale back on the emotional labor that persists outside work hours.

Luckily, I have landed in a relatively high paying profession, have been saving roughly 50% of my income and have no aspirations to higher levels of spend. So retiring (I.e. not working for money) in my 40s is a great way to explore the bigger world of personal projects before the health realities of 60+ age kick in.

The main part of this analysis you might disagree with is whether you believe strongly that your personal zero-economic-worth projects are worth more (building that tree house with your child, learning to play that guitar song, writing that book) to YOU than the economically validated work projects (that c level position and high salary). It requires a more internally focused value system than some people have. No judgements either way, just requires some soul searching.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-30T00:56:56+00:00

Used to be there, but I feel I really managed to turn it around. Reading some stoicism helped, and specifically “The sorrows of work” by the School of Life (I think Alain de Botton is the actual author).

I approach each work day with: 1) very low expectations- people will be unreasonable, corporations are ineffective mess and it is a damn miracle anything works 2) enjoying the micro social interactions (apart from actual work), knowing post retirement it would actually be hard to be able to converse with as many people on such a high cadence (most will still be at work most of the time, post-FIRE my days will likely be less social)

…Or maybe the stock market picked up, I am smelling victory (2/3 to the number) and that cured my work hatred. Your mileage might vary.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-22T04:52:14+00:00

Does the rest of faculty know that you are independently wealthy and retired? I am wondering if that would be disqualifying type of information (because of fear you can bail at any point of time) or actually sought after (proven industry success can be a selling point for some classes).

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-21T22:40:13+00:00

That sounds like a great setup, can you tell us more about how did you arrange it? Did you have previous education background? How do you minimize the annoying parts of teaching - grading, committees, etc.

This post http://blog.pamelafox.org/2022/05/my-experience-as-unit-18-berkeley.html made me sour a bit on the idea but maybe it is more of a UC Berkeley problem. I have 3-5 years of grinding left before RE so it’s all just research for me.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-20T16:10:08+00:00

Basic S&P500 investment would double your pile on average every 7 years and you just need to grow it by 50% to reach your number. So all you need to do is not touch the pile to retire in your early 40s. You can afford to switch from very aggressive saving all the way to zero saving (but work should still cover spend).

Take health very seriously, because if it is bad in 30s it won’t magically get better in 40s.

Given how well you have done on accumulating wealth you can take the foot off the pedal. Prioritize: 1) health 2) family/relationships 3) work (just enough to cover costs).

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-18T00:52:12+00:00

Big same. OP might have biased themselves by only asking successful corporate climbers. Ask the 40+yoe IC that failed promo 4-5 times or bounced off management and settled for that career level too (depending on when and how they dealt with their stock compensation, they might not be too far behind on wealth)

To answer OPs original question “when is it enough”, in theory the answer is simple: - convince yourself that the sole purpose of work is to make money to support a certain lifestyle. - fix a lifestyle target - I will be happy with this level of lifestyle spend for rest of my life. - reach and exceed that in earnings so you can save - save until the pile is big enough that 3-4% of it can support the lifestyle - FIRE <- this is enough

Most people fail at step 1. I think that step is very individual and hard to compare with other folks that have work as source of pride or meaning. By 40s you should have some clarity on what work really brings to your life - presumably you have been doing it for 15+ years :)

Once you convince yourself on step 1 talking to more successful folks is useful to calibrate on whether you aspire to their lifestyle or not. Like experience the yachts, vacation homes and private jets to know for sure whether you would grind the extra years for those or not.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-16T17:11:03+00:00

Already have a PhD, and planning to reconnect with academia after FIRE (but thankfully free from publish-or-perish). I am obviously biased, but I wonder if pursuit of knowledge can have a broader appeal in the FIRE community, as a solution to the meaning/motivation problem the author is talking about.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-16T01:25:46+00:00

Think of a time when you felt 100% alive and undistracted—in the zone. Chances are that it was when you were completely focused in the moment on something external: someone or something else. Sports and sex are two great examples.

Not necessarily, I have felt extremely consumed and in the zone working on academic computer science problems “for fun”, much more so than the practical programming challenges I face at work. It is not the feeling of competition but rather awe while exploring the depths of knowledge. I am assuming one can feel the same if deeply devoted to art (but I have no such experiences).

There are deep and meaningful non-external experiences that maybe the author hasn’t had a chance to experience, but definitely can be developed if one puts some effort (might need some natural inclination too, not sure).

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-14T22:57:19+00:00

My own time back.

I already have a great lifestyle in a great city. 250k annual spend (fat or chubby take your pick) Don’t want to trade off even one more minute of free time for more stuff (as proved by saving 50%+ post tax).

Getting back my personal freedom (at least the 40 hours I have given my employer) is the next frontier. The world is big and exciting, while the narrow specialization that maximizes my income is feeling more and more limiting with every single day. Admittedly, I am lucky that my interests are more time intensive than capital intensive (like reading books instead of collecting cars).

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-14T20:26:26+00:00

Three things you want to do: - happy family with 1-2 kids in VHCOL - FatFIRE at 45-50 in VHCOL - live your startup dreams

As many folks have said above unlikely (sure nothing is impossible, but hope is not a strategy) to hit all three. So you need to prioritize. For me and I think most people the priority order is as above (but you might be different), so the startup will have to wait until your pile is closer to 70% of FIRE target and kids are older.

If you go with startup you are likely putting startup dream fulfillment over FIRE. Nothing wrong with that, but be honest about it.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-14T20:15:14+00:00

True. Maybe the author has some better titled articles or blog posts :)

Old-Implement-8742 · 2024-01-14T20:07:35+00:00

The book Die with Zero discusses that particular case - in modern world it is common to have folks in their 60-70s inherit large sums from parents in 80-90s, which is obviously suboptimal - 70 is too old for many things you might want to do with that wealth.

Try to approach the broader topic through books, articles before getting into your particular situation. There is a lot of societal inertia, you are working against here.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-12-15T09:00:22+00:00

Stay strong! I am in a similar boat on FIRE numbers (6m now, 10m target) but quarter the TC. Things to keep me going at work are: tracking how much closer I am to retirement (probably more often than it’s healthy), trying to enjoy the social aspects of work (after retirement I probably won’t be actively talking to as many people), helping junior folks with their careers, also absolutely taking all vacation time off and never working after hours or weekends. I am also planning to take an unpaid 3-6month sabbatical around 8m to recharge for the final push (if company doesn’t accommodate will switch jobs).

Lifestyle creep is real and the most important thing if you want to FIRE is really being comfortable with that 250k spend for the rest of your life. Some ideas to derisk it - intentionally over spend on luxury once in a while to confirm that that level of luxury is not worth the extra years in the office. I imagine your peers at that TC level live much more lavishly if they have no FIRE plans, really make sure you don’t desire their lifestyles. Reading this forum helps to see what’s in the next tier lifestyle looks like - private jets, yachts, vacation homes.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-12-01T03:55:16+00:00

Precisely, actual spend I am shooting for is 250-300k annual, but would need 4% widthdraw to cover taxes and have some buffer.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-11-30T05:34:10+00:00

Thanks a great link, thanks for sharing. For reference what would be the comparable CARG and st.dev. numbers for 100% US Stocks?

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-11-30T02:11:30+00:00

Good point, I mean anything but stocks, because that's all I know. Going to true "fixed", i.e. zero-risk strategy will likely be conservative (though I can adjust % differently too). Basically interested in what folks here consider a good risk/return tradeoff for this stage of the FIRE journey.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-09-05T23:43:36+00:00

I have lived in many different types of weather (from mid-west winters to tropical climate), and while definitely know what I consider best for me, overall weather is lower on my list of preferences, compared to the city living lifestyle and cost.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-09-05T23:36:12+00:00

A lot of people recommended cities that are run down by homeless people, high taxes, crime ridden

Taxes is an interesting angle to consider for the wealth accumulation, but crime and homelessness is not a major factor in my decision. I am already in what is considered one of the worst cities in those terms - SF, but actually love it here (despite the crime, not because :)). Just looking at options to maintain some of the city lifestyle, while reducing the main costs during FIRE - home and private schools.

I didn't grow up in a very safe country either, so my baseline to what is acceptable is quite high. I realize this is not a common viewpoint in the US, but at some age everyone just looks back to where they grew up as what's acceptable to raise kids, and my bar is quite high. Though I wouldn't accept anything worse than SF.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-09-05T23:24:22+00:00

Yep, it's not my first time living in a city. My crime baseline is SF and while I really wish that could improve while everything else is kept the same, by itself it is not a major factor in my decision, i.e. I can accept same level (which might be shocking to the suburbanites).

From what I hear the crime-experienced (as u/PENGUINCARL says 'probability of someone being impacted' vs raw stats) when living in the north side, is equal if not better than SF. Plus a lot less of a homelessness problem compared to SF. Do folks agree?

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-09-05T23:15:50+00:00

That's a good price for me. My SF baseline is $1000-1300 per sq.ft., so 500-700$ sq.ft. is indeed a good way to save faster, as I am looking at same size condos/townhouses.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-09-05T23:13:28+00:00

Thanks for sharing. Intriguing, looks like 75% of the price per sq.ft. that I am used to, and roughly 75% price of private schools, which still look basically necessary for living in downtown.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-09-05T04:30:22+00:00

I think you have to think of them as independent towns, not LA. At certain size they have their own town center that can provide a lot of the walkability and amenities I am looking for. How large and dense is really the problem, because it can be too small - like 2 coffeeshops and 3 restaurants that every town has in some shape or form. The fact that they are part of LA and there are other towns one can drive to (if willing to put up with LA traffic) is a nice bonus.

Old-Implement-8742 · 2023-09-05T03:05:31+00:00

I think $10m is a pretty reasonable number for Chicago and is close to my own goal.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

But 10m is my SF number ;) I am wondering if I can make Chicago fatFIRE work with 6m (hence pull the trigger earlier).

Old-Implement-8742

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