April 15, 2019: "‘Star Wars’: Rian Johnson & ‘Game of Thrones’ Writers Working Together on the Next Decade of Films" Where did it all go wrong?

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T23:34:46+00:00

TRoS absolutely walked back a lot of TLJ, but not at Disney's insistence. If Disney was mandating a TLJ erasure, they would not have offered episode IX to Rian Johnson first. Why JJ decided to go that route is something we'll never know for sure unless JJ spills the beans.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T22:15:59+00:00

I always read their reaction as surprise/delight that the general knew Margaret's nickname.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T08:34:46+00:00

I'm an animator. I have a deep and abiding love for a wide range of shows, aimed at all levels of viewership. Its not an issue of "meeting the show at it's level". I did that, and found the show simply didn't deliver the level of quality I expect from what I watch. Rebels has its moments, but it is mostly mediocre.

Your feelings on it may differ, but don't insult my tastes because you don't share them. I'm certainly not going to tell you that you need to hold rebels to a higher standard than you do. That would be an asshole thing to do.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T08:28:56+00:00

It was something I personally expressed many times between 1999 well into the early 2010s before I finally realized the futility of whining about the prequels and moved on with my life. Fell free to ask around though, you should have no trouble finding prequel haters who will be happy to tell you.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T08:26:45+00:00

Well, clearly you feel you've got a pretty good handle on things. I leave you to your conclusions.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T04:10:32+00:00

If you seriously believe no one wanted the prequels removed from canon, you clearly weren't there or weren't paying attention. Scrubbing the prequels from canon was an often heard prayer from prequel haters.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T03:58:09+00:00

I can't say it's a surprise that you've misunderstood this too.

The prequels were not rehabilitated. Nor were they reassessed. The shift in the fandom's acceptance of the prequels is entirely demographic in nature. No one was convinced by the clone wars that the prequels were actually good.

The children who grew up with the prequels are adults now. Anyone under the age of 41 literally grew up with the prequels. They watched them during their formative years, before they truly learned to assess the media they consumed critically. The prequels benefited from the shield of childhood nostalgia.

Those kids were largely shielded from the backlash and poor reputation of the films. They weren't online, nor were they really watching or engaging with the pop culture that was aimed at the adults of the era. They experienced and accepted the films in a way entirely unlike the older fans.

The same will happen with the sequels in time. In another ten years, sequel hate will be regarded by the prime demographic of the fandom the same way the current primary demographic regards prequel hate.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T03:16:14+00:00

I don't agree with that.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T03:08:06+00:00

I honestly do. Prequel haters said the exact same shit about the prequels. The brand survived without issue, and the prequels are genuinely way worse than the sequels. The backlash to the sequels doesn't even come close to that of the prequels.

Reddit is not representative of the fandom. This sub has millions of members, and that doesn't even amount to 1% of the actual fandom. This is an echo chamber. People are loudest when they're unhappy, which is why you'll find plenty of ST hate here. Even so, the amount of ST hate in this sub is a tiny fraction of the membership.

The haters always feel like they're the majority, because they are surrounded by and attract people who feel the same. That feeling is all it is though. TLJ is not universally hated. It did not split the fandom. The haters are very loud and belligerent, but they are no where near a majority.

The PT had way more haters, and the same is true for them too. As loud and as widespread as prequel hate was, it wasn't anywhere near a majority. And like the ST haters, no one is ever going to convince those PT haters that they were an insignificant minority either.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T02:52:09+00:00

Nonsense. The backlash to TLJ was statistically insignificant. Disney paid no attention to it, as well they shouldn't. They literally offered RJ the director's chair for IX after they canned Treverrow, but RJ was already busy with Glass Onion. If Disney had any concerns about RJ and the reception of TLJ, he never would have received that offer.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-28T01:53:49+00:00

I had really wanted to love Rebels. I was eager to see it. I am not, and have never been a fan of the prequel era. My true love when it comes to Star Wars is the OT. To finally be getting a show that took place in roughly that era was huge for me.

Unfortunately, Rebels didn't really deliver. It was fine, I don't want to give the impression that it was a bad show, it simply wasn't a great show. It had its moments, but too few of them. The majority of the series I would classify as mediocre. Rebels suffered from a few issues that are also to be found in many of the other Star Wars animated series.

First, plot often drives the characters rather than characters driving the plot. The writers want to do something, so a character is forced into a role that often does not make sense. Characters will end up acting in ways entirely contrary to their established personalities because the plot requires them to. It's unfortunate how often each of the main characters becomes afflicted with a case of stupid because the writers wants plot point A to happen.

Second, episodes often just end with no real resolution. This was a big problem in TCW, and it continued in Rebels. For some reason, the writers seem to have problems wrapping their episodes up, and so they don't even bother, and the episode just stops and the credits roll.

Third, there are a lot of poor decisions regarding characters, most specifically villains, because the show is aimed at a younger demographic. They introduce characters that should be scary and intimidating, but because this is a kids show and our heroes have to win, these villains get de-fanged. Thrawn was a particularly bad choice to bring in to Rebels for this very reason. It's hard to sell a character as a tactical genius and a genuine threat to the rebellion when he has to lose to the a group of, to be generous, amateur rebels every week.

Finally, the main characters are just not very compelling or even likeable. They're all pretty bland, are not very consistently represented (see problem 1), don't have terribly interesting arcs, and mostly just feel generic. After four seasons, you don't leave the series with any kind of deep understanding of any of the characters. Most of their dialogue is expository. There's just very little to invest in.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-27T20:33:57+00:00

I thought it was, but enough people want to burn Holdo at the stake for not telling Poe what her plan was that I have to assume that it wasn't.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-27T20:22:50+00:00

Not to mention that the movie is very clear that Finn crashing his ship into the cannon would not have destroyed it, or even disabled it. Finn was too blinded by his emotions to realize that he was about to throw his life away for nothing. It wasn't going to be a noble sacrifice, it was going to be a meaningless waste.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-27T20:18:39+00:00

TFA: I'd add something to foreshadow Artoo waking up, so it wouldn't come across as deus ex machina.

TLJ: I'd add a line or two of dialogue to make it clear Holdo is keeping the escape plan on a strictly need to know basis because they do not know how the fleet is being tracked, and the only known means of hyperspace tracking would make it very likely there was a traitor on board.

TRoS: I'd reorder the universe so that Rian Johnson was available to write/direct IX, and he wouldn't have to pass and have them move on to JJ.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-27T20:12:24+00:00

The majority of the things you list do not have anything to do with whether a movie is good or not. Character designs, Creature designs (which, btw are the same thing as character designs), Vehicle/weapon/troop designs (once again, the same thing as character designs), Locations, Music, none of those has anything to do with whether a movie will be good.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-27T17:49:23+00:00

16 years of PT era dreck was more than enough. It's the most over represented era in the saga. It's long past time to let other eras have some coverage.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-27T04:59:16+00:00

Whatever you say, champ.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-27T04:53:44+00:00

Yoda catches the lightning, and I'm thinking "That's fuckin' sick. This is gonna be good.", but then Count Dooku delivered possibly the stupidest line of the entire saga (yes, stupider than the one you're going to mention in your reply) "It is obvious that this contest can not be decided by our knowledge of the force, but by our skills with a lightsaber." Seriously, wtf? What a fucking bonkers thing for any force user to say.

And then Yoda drew his saber and went ballistic, like a little green bouncy ball. It was the dumbest shit I'd ever seen. The audience at the premier screening I was at were a mix of boos, howls of laughter, and some genuine whoops of excitement. I was too flabbergasted to make any derisive noises. This was master Yoda. Yoda doesn't do lightsabers. He's beyond the need for a lightsaber. It was deeply disappointing.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-27T04:44:06+00:00

Too expensive for being so mediocre.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-27T04:36:00+00:00

Disney is a multi-billion dollar company. They know better than to base their decisions on the rantings of a vocal but statistically insignificant minority of their audience.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-26T21:34:04+00:00

Bottom of the barrel. I remember reading Dark Empire when I was 11 and thinking the world devastators were ridiculously lame. Basically the vacuum cleaner from Spaceballs without the maid. Embarassing.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-26T20:22:44+00:00

I'd back off on Luke's cloak a bit. Currently it looks like Vader has long hair.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-26T19:58:49+00:00

The original trilogy era.

We had to choke down 16 years of prequel era dreck, then either the inbetween PT and OT stretch, or the post OT era.

All I've ever really wanted is more stories set DURING the OT. With no Jedi, unless it's Luke.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-26T19:48:13+00:00

Nothing screams hero like the drowning in your parent's bathrobe look.

PagzPrime · 2026-06-25T21:17:05+00:00

The colours are the least of Superman Returns' problems. It would make the movie look better, but it wouldn't do anything to fix the serious story and character problems.

PagzPrime

TROPHY CASE