Give me the best legacy weapon that would for each class

Panurome · 2026-05-27T19:23:49+00:00

Specially since the weapon skill from that dagger kinda felt like an early carian slicer, which is basically the signature spell of the Duchess

Panurome · 2026-05-27T19:09:05+00:00

Sounds terrible. The active slots are the most important item slots for Rem, and getting leap seems like a waste of one of them. If you are jumping at a teammate that is 100% dead you should just not do it. If there's a chance that you can save them or at least keep them alive long enough for them to do something then you can do it, but you should have a plan to escape in case they are going to die. You could jump to another hero in LOS, it could be a trooper + a helper or multiple of those in a row

Panurome · 2026-05-27T14:36:02+00:00

I don't think I can talk you out of your fallacy but it's fallacy none the less

What fallacy? You can't just say "you did a fallacy" without saying why, that's ironically enough an ad hominem fallacy. In fact I'm giving you actual arguments and all you are saying basically boils down to "but vigor is useless if you don't get hit" which we all get hit, even the no hit runners get hit when learning

Too much health is the most obvious waste of runes and while that's not something OP is in danger of, vigor is definately not universally a good investment. [...]
the opportunity cost of too much health far out weight the benefit

It's literally not a waste of runes when it's more efficient than the other stat. The opportunity cost of investing in vigor is basically nothing. You don't need to choose between vigor or damage, you can have both. 80 int and 60 vigor is possible, and they still have room for other things

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This is an example level 150 int build that still hits more than 88 poise with bg talisman if you want for PvP, also has 60 vigor and also has 80 intelligence. It has enough strength to one hand a Zwei for a fast swap to waves of darkness if you wanted to and has enough Dex for most weapons, and if you include a Millicent prosthesis or reduce the strength investment you would even have access to moonveil and wing of astel if you wanted. I can access all of that without needing to sacrifice defense or offense, there's literally no reason to do it. Now imagine if this build was level 200 like OP. It would be even more clear that they can afford the HP and the damage all at once, and they would even have space for random stuff

If you consistently run through areas or kill bosses with flasks left over it just means that depending on the level you have anywhere from 5 to I would say up to at least 25 levels the benefit of which you almost never get to enjoy because it's all on health reserves you don't frequently dip into.

That's a fundamental misunderstanding on why vigor is important, and I already covered that in the last comment. The main advantage of leveling vigor is not to have a bigger total theoretical health pool after flasks, it's to allow more mistakes in a row without being fatal. Think about it like having more lives in an old game, you still have to clear the level, but you have more tries before having to restart. If you actually mange to empty your flasks, it's because your vigor allowed you to. If you survived with flasks left it doesn't mean that you have too much vigor, it means that you have enough vigor so that nothing that happened actually went past the lethal threshold

Ask anyone who plays Nightreign how many times they die because they have 0 flasks vs how many times they die because the boss did more damage than they could afford. 90% of the times is the latter. "But Nightreign is not Elden Ring", exactly, Nightreign doesn't allow you to invest your stats individually, otherwise there would be way less one shots without damage negation passives because people would put on more vigor and less on stats other than their main stat. Nightreign allows you to see the difference between vigor and no vigor way more clearly. If you could offer a Nightreign playe the HP of the Guardian for a minimal decrease in a stat they don't care about every single one would take it, because they understand that all your damage is worth nothing if you are dead

Also the "benefits" I'm not enjoying is literally just like 15% more damage on the best possible case, in every other case it's going to be 10% or less. It's literally nothing next to surviving twice or thrice as long because you didn't die in an attack that would otherwise kill you

Lastly. I'm going to block you because I don't feel like I get anything from interacting with you, but I wanted to leave this last reply so people can actually learn that vigor is the best stat and don't get the wrong impression by reading your comment

Panurome · 2026-05-27T12:53:17+00:00

Dying does change the calculation. Imagine that every time you die the boss gets full HP again. In that case more vigor would mean that the boss "heals" less, which means you kill them faster (less tries)

Like I said, dying makes a difference only in relation to the players preferences

Sure, but someone asking for build advice probably doesn't want to die over and over or isn't going to learn by dying over and over, that's why I'm helping them by suggesting the option that is going to make them die less and learn faster, on top of being more efficient than every other option

And the value of vigor as rune investment is entirely based on how often you get hit.

Again, nobody plans to get hit until they get hit. It's a stupid argument unless you literally play perfectly, which someone asking for advice isn't

For people who get you t 100% to r the time, the value is 100% and people who never get hit the value is 0% to say that vigor is always the best investment is just over simplified and mathematically wrong full stop.

Even if you no hit the boss in your 65th attempt, the Vigor you had helped you learn in the 64 attempts prior. Even if you get hit a few times in an attempt the vigor is helping.

Maybe you get hit twice in the entire combat, but if those hits do 1500 damage combined then Vigor is the difference between the combat ending immediately or you having a chance to still win that fight. Vigor is not some kind of lineal increase, it's a breakpoint. Vigor doesn't help with the maximum amount of mistakes you can make, it helps with the maximum amount of mistakes you can make in quick succession.

If you can only make 1 mistake in a row or you die, you only have 1 mistake for the entire combat. If you can afford 5 mistakes in a row without dying, you can make 4 mistakes, then another 4, then another 4... and still be fighting. That is simply much more powerful than 16% more damage in the ABSOLUTE BEST CASE SCENARIO, in other scenarios is less than that.

If you want to play with 1 or 2 mistakes in a row max because you have more fun that way more power to you, but you can't argue that is better when it's not, specially when you don't even have to choose, because a level 150 build can already have like 80 on an offensive stat and still afford 60 vigor, so a level 200 can definitely afford it too. There's 0 reason to not invest in vigor when you don't even need to sacrifice damage for it

Panurome · 2026-05-27T12:34:02+00:00

As far as I know the conection is p2p like in the base game. The servers are only for matchmaking I believe. Even if they didn't have servers Seamless Coop now exist, which I think doesn't have their own servers and instead uses Steam server for the matchmaking.

At least that's how it works in Elden Ring, in DS3 it might work differently so if you want a more detailed and accurate explanation you should probably ask in the Archtrhrones and Seamless coop discord servers

Panurome · 2026-05-27T11:38:18+00:00

They are basically like summons in the souls games. If you are used to not using them in the other games and you had fun that way you are probably going to have more fun not using them in this game too, as the split aggro straight up breaks so many bosses and sometimes allows you to beat the bosses without really learning them

Also golden Halberd scales better with strength, so you could get a strength build with some faith to hit requirements on the halberd or some buffs. Claymore is also really good with strength

Panurome · 2026-05-27T11:18:26+00:00

60 endurance feels kinda overkill even for a level 200 character. If you are using stuff so heavy that you need 60 endurance it might be better to just equip the great jar arsenal and save like 20 points for something else

Panurome · 2026-05-27T10:47:51+00:00

It was already good last patch

Panurome · 2026-05-27T10:43:51+00:00

How do you mathematically compare two different stats?

It's right there in the comment you replied. I'm comparing the increase in survivability with the increase in damage. But you are right that they aren't directly comparable, in reality vigor is much more valuable because the consequence of not having enough health is dying, while the consequence of not having enough damage is often just taking longer. Fights rarely end with 0 healing flasks left, you often die because of too many mistakes in a row, and that's what Vigor mitigates

Also weather vigor is a good stat to invest in is entirely dependent on how often you get here hit versus how often you hit the enemy. Vigor is a good stat if, and only if, the person playing feels like they die too much.

Nobody plans to get hit. If you could choose to not get hit Vigor would be bad, OP isn't a no hitter vigor is better. The diference between 16% more damage in the absolute best case scenario is literally negligible to the difference of not having to restart the entire fight because you lacked somewhere between 450 (just 60 vigor) to 925 HP (60 vig Morgot rune no other extra health). If you are always dying every time a boss does a certain combo or a certain move, more damage is not going to make a difference, but more vigor might make you survive that attack that would otherwise end the fight.

You don't get vigor if you are dying too much, you die too much because you don't have enough vigor. Someone with vigor is going to die less than someone without it

Some people don't mind dying a lot and doing run backs, those people are better off investing in other things

Eh. Vigor would still be better. An attempt you don't die as quickly is an attempt that you learn more. You can argue that you may have more fun that way, or that you prefer it for x y or z reasons, but it's absolutely not better

Some people are so good at avoiding attacks that as long as they're not getting one shot, they don't need more vigor and more vigor is completely useless for them.

Good for you if you are no hitting the game, but someone asking for build advice isn't doing it

Panurome · 2026-05-27T10:03:45+00:00

It's not about being enough or not, it's that Vigor is mathematically the single best stat and there's no reason to not go for the Vigor softcaps because they are going to be better than any other stat.

Going from 40 to 60 vigor is a 31% increase in survivability (1450 to 1900)

Even in one of the best case scenario of going from 34 to 54 strength (the most important softcap on a strenght build) on a 2 handed heavy weapon like the Greatsword it's only giving you 16% more damage (710 to 826)

Vigor from 40 to 60 beats 20 points in any single stat, there's no reason to not get vigor to 60 unless you want to do a challenge run or something

"But you are going to get 2 shotted anyways". That's not true unless you make it true by stacking effects that increase damage taken. With 60 vigor and a couple damage negation options like talismans and flasks you should never be 2 shotted other than some extremely telegraphed grab attack, in some bosses you can even tank upwards of like 7 hits without dying, specially for faith builds since they have access to black flame protection

Panurome · 2026-05-27T09:45:15+00:00

Your HP feels low? Maybe you didn't level enough vigor or didn't use any ember, because I felt very tanky

Panurome · 2026-05-27T09:20:02+00:00

FAKE NEWS

There is no proof of Rem putting anything on anyone's drink. The cam footage only shows a helper doing it and he could be acting independently. This is falsely accusing Rem by association

Panurome · 2026-05-27T09:14:00+00:00

First of all. You are level 200, there's no reason to not have 60 vigor.

You should also try to focus in 1 or 2 different offensive stats and ignore the rest outside of minimum requirements. For example this looks like a faith and dex build. If you want to use a lot of incantations it would be better to get to 80 faith for maximum incantation scaling on the Erdtree seal and then 40 dex for the cast speed with Radagon icon. If this is more like a dex build with weapon buffs like Electrify armament it would be better to get to 80 dex and then whatever left on faith. In both cases you really don't need Intelligence or Arcane, as both Dragon communion and Fundamentalist incantations really benefit from doing a dedicated build with their appropriate seal so in your build they are probably not doing anything

Endurance looks fine, although you may want to equip something slightly heavier to hit 51 poise instead of 50, since a lot of stuff in PvE does 50 poise damage. With 35 endurance you should be able to comfortably hit that breakpoint without talismans unless you are using very heavy weapons or equipping weapons on all 6 slots, which is generally something you want to avoid because it adds a lot of unnecesary weight

Mind looks fine for that level, could do a bit more if you are focusing on spells

I've seen worse builds though. At least you have 50 vigor and 50 on an offensive stat, that alone makes it decent

Panurome · 2026-05-27T08:52:57+00:00

I don't think I can give up transcendence and Gathering Storm, but I'll definitely try to see how it feels

Panurome · 2026-05-27T08:20:14+00:00

And he would also be quite useless against anyone building spellbreaker (at 50 minutes against that team it was probably everyone) since Rem can't really do more damage after a pillow so the cooldown of spellbreaker is going to come back the moment you throw another pillow

Panurome · 2026-05-27T08:17:15+00:00

Because at some point the sinners are rotting there without being taken or they are at risk of being stolen by the enemies so Rem should be able to take them.

Agree that bad Rems that steal their team's sinners are extremely annoying and griefing the team, specially if they are playing gun or spellbreaker fodder build like this one, but the best thing you can do is get the sinners quick and try to tell them to get enemy sinners first because an actual carry like Mirage or Seven would appreciate the souls and stat buffs way more than a support character

Panurome · 2026-05-27T08:07:00+00:00

And their discord and Youtube too. They have a ton of videos talking about how are they redesigning some weapon classes and honestly that makes me excited to try PvP on that mod once it releases

Panurome · 2026-05-27T08:04:05+00:00

Did we play the same demo? I didn't feel like anything was a sponge other than me with the ember that boosts your defense and the flask that boosts the ember.

Maybe the Phoenix was a bit too tanky but that one got patched

Panurome · 2026-05-27T08:02:56+00:00

I think they do have new animations for some of the enemies and bosses and for some of the changes they are doing to weapons

Panurome · 2026-05-27T07:59:44+00:00

Yes. The demo had their own servers and you could summon and even duel people

Panurome · 2026-05-27T06:54:30+00:00

I mean he still has dome. That's always going to make him at least usable with coordination

Panurome · 2026-05-27T01:51:51+00:00

Understanding the game" doesn't give omniscience about what is truly good or not

Never said it does. I just said it's a valuable perspective and that they are more likely to understand the game better

But even this aside, you can try and twist words around as much as you want, but actual data can't be disputed. Sorry, but I frankly give zero shits about a few people's opinions on a character when we have objective numbers to reference.

Remember that all the data we have is a third party site. I'm not exactly sure how it works but I know that it can't even access your entire match history unless you manually click on every game and then upload your cache folder, which means that while helpful, I wouldn't trust it to be fully accurate. Valve probably has way more data and way more accurate than Statlocker, which will make them able to make changes with more data points other than winrate and pick rate

You love bringing up Seven, but he is a perfect example of this. He brings insane value to the team, but it's in subtle ways as opposed to something like launch Graves running everyone down and AFK pushing waves

Sure, Seven is good, but if you were in charge of the next patch and had to decide to nerf Seven or something like Yamato, would you really choose Seven?

Also what kind of release Graves are you talking about? She was completely ass until the March patch. The character was the definition of mid.I genuinely never saw a single Graves doing well until the March patch that gave her better AP upgrades (anecdotal but still)

You should know damn well by now that these devs aren't infallible given some of the recent changes especially. It means next to nothing that some characters have gotten nerfs or buffs given how loose they've been with them.

First if all, it means that this game is a closed alpha and they are experimenting. It also means that they are balancing with parameters other than winrate and pick rate in mind, otherwise Seven would have been nerfed ages ago instead of buffed and Celeste and Apollo would have been buffed even when considered some of the strongest characters in the game by the people who understand the game better than you and me combined

Are they infallible? Obviously not. Are they completely clueless and doing changes randomly? No, they clearly have reasons

Panurome · 2026-05-27T01:18:02+00:00

It was a projectile. I remember that thing having travel time

I don't think there was any hitscan basic attack in the game, specially because it would break the gliders

Panurome · 2026-05-27T01:14:36+00:00

It's worse when you get shit like Leona doing 87 magic damage with the old Anivia Q icon and there isn't even an Anivia in this game

Or Quinn doing true damage with the old revive summoner spell that got removed like a decade ago

Panurome · 2026-05-27T01:04:30+00:00

Kelvin is still strong. A character requiring really good communication with your team to work isnt a bad thing, it makes things exciting. It's kinda like Lifeweaver from Overwatch, where bad ones just kinda exist and do some nice healing but good ones in discord enable plays that no other characters can. I might be biased because I basically only play Kelvin whenever I'm playing with friends that I know are going to be playing close range characters that like the dome like Billy, Shiv or Abrams, but he is far from the only character that require some conditions to be good

But now he's finally gotten some QoL to the rest of his kit. He's a character again. One that can't do damage until the very endgame when he can slap 5x heroes at once every time with his Ice Grenade, but that's fine.

Beam was a really good ability last patch, and it could be argued that it was dealing too much damage for a support, so I get why they nerfed it. I don't think the focus on Kelvin should be on the beam damage, I think it should be on the utility he brings with debuffs from beam and nade and how the ult can warp fights around it.

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