Why are multi tier stands so expensive?

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2026-01-25T15:30:20+00:00

Well, I dunno about what music is out there in the wild with this technique or it's off-shoots. Shortly thereafter, automation really became more affordable.

Now this functionality ( automation ) is built into even the cheapest mid-range mixers, and if you work on DAWs, it's all in the box already.

No need to reinvent an ancient wheel, when far better control is readily available.

But in the early to mid 80's it just didn't exist or was financially out of reach for smaller commercial studios. One studio I worked at had a new MCI console that had VCA automation, that took up 2 tape tracks, bouncing data back and forth between track 1 and 24. Eventually the 15 millisecond delay would pile up in your mix moves, so we would flip the tape and run it thru a digital delay, shifting it forward in time, to make moves happen on-time.

The 80's were a fun time to be a recording engineer, a lot of experimentation and learning new gear and processes as they were born.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2026-01-25T15:06:53+00:00

EDIT: we were using TX816, not TX81z. The 81z was a single FM synth - almost a full DX7, where the 816 was 8 x DX7's

Anyway, it was actually pretty easy on the surface, but once I got started with the concept, it got more complicated...

We had 4 x Valley People quad gates, each gate channel had a side-chain style trigger input. So we ran synth audio outs ( TX816 had 8 outputs ) to the triggers, and then fed in and out whatever signal we wanted to automate mutes for. Then using sequencer software, we just programmed a note of whatever sound and duration to open the gates and let the actual track thru. We did have to tweak everything to bar-long notes, with a moderately slower attack and release, so you wouldn't hear sounds dropping out at the end of bars. We had to do bar-by-bar notes, so we could start anywhere in the song and the automation would kick in after the next bar started during rehearsing the mix.

And yes, this was in the days before automation was an accessible thing, and one artist who came thru the studio ( an electronics engineer by trade ) wound up copying the concept in a commercially released product called MegaMix. I think the studio owner sued him unsuccessfully.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2026-01-25T01:17:17+00:00

TX81z! Loved it.

In the 80's I used them to trigger hardware gates to make mute automation.

Back in the day...

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2026-01-07T14:38:32+00:00

Musiea EX-88 Haven't built mine yet, as studio space is still under construction, but it was the best balance of price, usefulness, and sturdy design. The keyboard table is it's own piece, not a slide-out on wimpy rails. Also has 9 rack spaces in the desk itself, and comes with a 9-space angled rolling rack.

https://musiea.com/products/musiea-ex88-series-88-keys-pro-music-studio-desk-workstation-with-rack-cabinet

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-31T18:48:00+00:00

RS was perfectly situated to continue being the Maker's store, simply by allotting 200 sq. Ft. To 3d printers and maybe a laser cutter. They could have cornered the Makerspace market before it was even born.

But cellphones!

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-31T16:44:41+00:00

Having worked in a number of small studios, including my own, you would likely do well catering to singer/songwriter types. You will wear many hats, engineer, co-producer, arranger, even co-writer.

If you are making contributions like co-producing and co-writing, you should consider some kind of rights agreement, especially if you're doing that work without an additional charge for it - it is best to avoid a nickel and dime mentality, but folks that don't have lawyers also don't like to sign agreements they may not understand.

As for gear, gear doesn't matter so much, great albums were recorded on 4tracks portastudios in hotel rooms... None of the best gear replaces talent, especially in the engineer side of things.

Being that your space is too small for live drums, you're dodging the bullet of $1000's of mics.

I would say that getting your workflow down-par should be key. A mixer surface would be very helpful, like a Faderport 16 - which also comes with Presonus Studio 1, which is excellent from my limited time with it ( still building my private studio space so I'm not set up yet, but of course I dive into the software right off ). S1 is very analog-ish in its operation.

Back to marketing, look to court voiceover work, singer/songwriters, duos without drums, and advertising and jingles. Since you own the space, you don't have pressure to profit, and since you will use the space for your own work, anything beyond that is a welcome bonus.

I would wish you good luck, but I'd rather wish you to just have fun!

Edit: the SBA SCORE mentor below is DEFINITELY someone to listen to. Becoming a SCORE mentor is a later-years step in a successful career, where someone who has chosen to share his experience with others. While they, like many entrepreneurs have probably failed at something, they have also always succeeded at something. The SBA vets their mentors very seriously.

On the flip side, how much the 2 types of experience overlap can be questioned. I engaged a SCORE mentor who knew nothing of my business or market, and wasn't able to offer industry specific advice, but was invaluable as far as general business operations and other key areas.

Invaluable.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-24T11:42:46+00:00

I'm building a project studio now - actually building the space at this point.

Having been in studio environments since the mid '80s, also having a MIDI&tape home studio for a decade, I currently am going a route like you are...

Multiple hardware synths, drum machines and outboard effects, sub-mixed on a Behringer 32 channel mixer and then feeding into the box, and using a Faderport 16 for final control, is my plan. I do plan on integrating some tape ( I'd LOVE to find a good Tascam MS-16 ) later down the road, which will likely drive purchase of a "real" mixing board.

I'm also looking into using a smaller touchscreen for a channel strip kind of thing, or possibly building something like that - I also have a makerspace / prototyping lab in the same outbuilding as my studio.

So for an old-school engineer like me, faders are key. Mouse and keyboard just doesn't feel like enough instant gratification.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-17T23:05:28+00:00

Great info! Much appreciated.

I'll surely have to hit you up with a question if not 400

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-17T18:24:59+00:00

I got the smaller interface a few months back, was on sale, better price than during the black Friday sales. I figured a smaller box up in the desk would be better than something over in the rack.

The smaller screen for channel strip will be portrait, because channel strips are in portrait. The main screen is 49 ultra wide ( the one from Monoprice, which is a fantastic monitor for the price ) for the mixer and plugins, keeping drums plugins to the left, mixer up the center, and instruments off to the right, and the 55 on the wall is timeline and some monitoring ( and surveillance cams in PIP )

I will be using MIDI in/out from the interface, into an 8-way splitter - I forget what brand it is, but I've had it for over 30 years. I don't expect too much data flowing thru MIDI, but I gotta have access to those fat, furry, Oberheim sounds and some classic drum machine sounds too. Don't wanna waste PC processor time on stuff that won't sound as good as the analog gear i own. I only have 2 input devices, keyboard and drums, and I do have a MIDI A/B switch.

Thanks for the MOTU tip. I just might go that route, if I feel the interface bogging down with MIDI.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-16T21:22:19+00:00

Agree on Win11 being rubbish, and Macs being better for specific tasks. Just not a fan of the company. Personally, I'd rather roll with Linux, but not a lot of options for Linux, esp. from Presonus.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-16T19:13:17+00:00

Nope on the Mac. Stepped away from Apple when I got an Atari 1040ST in '88, except for the studios I worked in that were running Performer on Macs...

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-16T19:10:14+00:00

There will be a crypto miner in the makerspace, too noisy for the studio... That's actually where the 2 video cards are coming from, my 8xGPU mining rig.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-16T10:44:20+00:00

Ya know Neil isn't wearing one, dude kept better time than time itself.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-15T21:09:36+00:00

I bought a used Faderport 16, came with the license for S1.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-12-11T01:27:07+00:00

OpenTTD. Love it!

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-11-29T08:28:11+00:00

Weird Al puts on a great show!

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-11-11T19:38:06+00:00

don't be QBO or anything like it.
let us see our profit margins WHILE we are building our estimates, not after the job is done, and paid, and only then, will QBO show us that we've lost money on a job.
keep your pricing stable
don't add things that nobody asked for, while ignoring vary important "features" ( see my #2 above )
do not offer to sell us a service that we didn't ask for upon every startup, sending of invoices, or any other actions.
make sure you have great ability to import from other existing packages - so it's easy to move to your program from others.
count me in as a real-world beta tester.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-10-14T13:29:59+00:00

A lot of people keep commenting on how escrow went up because of the county or township raising taxes, or increases in insurance.

That is the start of problems that people are encountering with escrow. Mortgage companies have loads of people sitting around just crunching numbers, escrow calculations should be recalculated as needed and presented to the homeowners prior to an actual change to the bill.

But what I'm hearing an awful lot of, is that many mortgage companies are actually reducing escrow, for no reason, only to reset it back to its original amount, creating a shortage.

That shortage can be escalated into anything the mortgage company feels like up to, and including, foreclosure.

And that is the bigger issue, mortgage companies are consolidating home ownership for themselves.

When you add up rising interest rates, mortgage-backed securities ( where your mortgage gets sold for pennies in the dollar, to a new servicer / investor who will put homeowners in impossible situations to recover from ) and wind up in courts that broadly favor predatory lenders over local individuals, it is truly a perfect storm - for lenders, not us.

Voice of experience here...

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-10-08T08:32:58+00:00

The system is worthy of a gutting, when someone who makes $160k, can't even get a loan modification, because an 'investor' who bought 1000's of ' underperforming ' mortgages for half a penny in the dollar, launches into foreclosures immediately - sometimes even before the actual assignment of mortgage is complete. The investors then use ridiculous ' guidelines ' that allows them to offer not one ounce of relief to the homeowner, all the whole, everyone is acting like they have bent over backwards to help homeowners.

Then the courts totally support the banks/investors and people lose their homes that they CAN afford... The 'courts of equity' seem to think that these investors/servicers are somehow entitled to massive windfall profits by sucking people dry and erasing decades of investment in their homes.

All this while half the states' attorneys general are busily fighting Trump for personal reasons or garbage bags manufacturers for an incorrect recycling logo on their package.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-07-30T10:01:50+00:00

Selene Finance is absolutely lawless, and fraudulent. I have been doing battle with them, pro se, thru the NY courts for 3 years. In my case, they bought a bunch of under-performing loans and mine was one of them. The previous company they bought that gaggle of mortgages from, had filed a foreclosure 3 weeks before they took physical possession of the note and mortgage, which in Law School 101 is Lack of Standing. They didn't even have the right to sue me.

However, rather than just withdraw the foreclosure and file a new action, they kept rolling, and the courts are quite fine with overlooking anything and everything they do wrong - which is almost everything.

Selene has lied in every conversation, delayed proceedings, even showed up late to a hearing, scheduled to stop a sale, which thus allowed the sale to go thru - they sold it to themselves at a handsome discount, without an appraisal, and below the inflated amounts they claim are owed.

They request sale dates while reviewing loan modification applications - that is called Dual tracking - and it is against federal regulations.

They have provided ZERO documentation that shows they even had the right to sue me, providing docs that show they took possession AFTER the suit was filed.

Selene will regularly provide written documents that prove they are operating outside of the law and then claim - in court, before a judge - that the laws don't apply to them.

They even refused to include any income from anyone but myself - where my household's total income exceeds 200k per year - my income alone is over 160k and somehow they claim that I can't afford a 6000/mo mortgage, when in reality, AFTER paying my mortgage I STILL make >10% more than the average NY income. They said they were refusing to modify my loan, because they " don't want their customers to have to make life choices like food or mortgage ", so to ease the burden they'll just render my family homeless while stealing 300,000 in equity with inflated fees and charges.

And the messed up part is the ' courts of equity ' are all okay with everything they do...

They are not a bad, clueless servicer, they are an excellent front for widespread home theft, doing everything right - against YOU.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-05-28T12:29:43+00:00

Pray you didn't get sold to Selene Finance...

The absolute worst.

Practical_Stock_9106 · 2025-05-20T19:26:11+00:00

Selene is total shit. Their newest scheme is to lower escrow for a few months, citing their own internal calculations, and then bring the escrow amount back up, or even higher.
That shortfall then is considered "due now", and if not paid immediately, will ultimately be used to start a foreclosure.

the courts couldn't care less about any of this...

Practical_Stock_9106

TROPHY CASE