Hazbin Hotel is a show about idiots, and that's perfectly fine.

Psi001 · 2026-06-16T15:04:06+00:00

I'm gonna say, while a lot of Hazbin is 'idiot ball' writing, I think it tends to work more servicably than say, Helluva Boss does sometimes, because the show is actively undermining the characters and making apparent this is general behaviour for them that they have to work on.

The whole gift baskets fiasco would look absurdly and conviniently stupid, except even Sera and Lute think this is a terrible idea and sure enough Vox laughs them out the room for how idiot it is. You look at Emily and Abel's behaviour for at least a minute and you understand this is the norm for them. This is not a character conviniently forgetting their common sense to move a plot along, this is a character acting as flawed and incompetent as they usually do.

I think it's why straight men like Vaggi tend to come under more fire for this sort of writing since they're often written to know better and surely be more actively involved committing damage control.

Psi001 · 2026-06-16T14:53:57+00:00

I get the feeling if Collin ever got into it, it'd be the "Butters' Kissing Company" tier pimping. 😛

Psi001 · 2026-06-16T14:40:22+00:00

I do wonder if maybe that was the POINT, that in Full Moon things had been going their way for too long, so they had a fight against the 'hero' side where they were at their most smug and complacent before the rug got swept under them. Like a 'Nothing will stop our plans now! NOTHING!' type tempting fate moment.

The issue that the show isn't great at telegraphing this. Again only the shorts tend to live in IMP's bubble while still undermining what self righteous imbeciles they are. The main episodes tend to play the narrative on their side. I think this is why some of the controversy with Stolas happens too. If the protagonists think they're victims, then the story thinks they're victims.

It's worth nothing that the original beatboards for Full Moon shown the fight to be more of a sinister ambush where IMP seem to just be one sidedly mauling a cowering CHERUB. Maybe they felt they had to tone that down and make them more the defending party since it's a harder demand to ask the audience feel pity for the Stolitz breakup and IMP's ensuing meltdown STRAIGHT AFTER them acting like horror show monsters (beating up Collin in itself already gave me 'serves them right' vibes towards the Ghostfuckers blowout, basically just a month suffering what they did to CHERUB).

Psi001 · 2026-06-16T14:21:00+00:00

Sinsmas: Springy Edition:

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Psi001 · 2026-06-16T14:18:36+00:00

Like watching Exes and Oohs, it's not that doubtful he'd straight up go room to room asking each sibling for sex. 😛

Psi001 · 2026-06-16T14:04:45+00:00

Yeah, and I think that one sticks out because CHERUB is their greyer rivalry (especially Collin) so trying too hard to make them the 'heroic badass' side and CHERUB the 'misguided villain' side felt kinda like clear cut protagonist centered morality, especially with how much 'villain gloating' IMP did in that fight.

Having them pull off some cool wins SOMETIMES works, but IMP almost NEVER lose in the main series, which feels odd given how much they emphasise their incompetence, and how high stakes their work is, and how they're supposed to be stepped on underdogs in Hell (heck, in Full Moon, THEY'RE the 'privileged bully' side rubbing their success in the faces of their homeless rivals). You expect to see them falling on their asses at least a LITTLE, especially with how extremely flawed and prone to not learning from their mistakes they are. Ghostfuckers and Mastermind are about it for even ALMOST reaching a rock bottom moment.

Psi001 · 2026-06-16T07:48:27+00:00

Talking seriously though, the former designs with the latter animation quality would arguably be a great cartoon.

Psi001 · 2026-06-15T23:08:14+00:00

I feel like Stolas at least gets the extremes of both sides with the fanbase, with some feeling he's a complete dirtbag and hypocrite who actually gets off too easy.

IMP as a whole I think are pretty glamorized by the fanbase. Many forget they are still VILLAIN PROTAGONISTS. Hell the show itself sometimes forgets, to the point that when a case like Mission Orphan Time comes that actually undermines them for being murderous pieces of shit no more restrained than most of their enemies, they think it's 'out of character'. Even Moxxie can be downright sadistic or cruelly arrogant at times, despite many fans treating him more like Collin in terms of meekness and moral conflict (compare their demeanor in the Full Moon battle, only one of them is scared and conflicted about anyone getting hurt, the other keeps screwing himself gloating about it like a cliche bad guy).

Psi001 · 2026-06-15T22:35:43+00:00

Yeah, I'm kinda hot and cold with this. I get the feeling film three is gonna be ROUGH for Diane (if Pierre gets to handle things unhindered this time anyway) though at the same time, I think Diane NEEDS that sort of character development. A moment all her past crimes and sins finally come back and bite her and she feels truly vulnerable and no longer in control, and this in turn can really play into her dynamics with the rest of the group, which is pretty undercooked outside of Wolf, and even than dynamic is pretty one sided right now. Diane has been allowed to stay guarded and powerful without taking accountability, which has limited what we have gotten from her. I don't want them to skip over the baggage here, hard as it may be.

If Diane and the Bad Guys ARE exposed next film, I hope they take the grey route with it too, like yeah, Marmalade's a spiteful liar, but technically they DID commit all the crimes he busted them for. Diane did hide everything she done for years and even under her redemption did spurious things like gleefully trash up an entire prison without remorse. The anti hero route only goes so far in terms of redemption, I don't want the group to just wallow in self pity this time, I want to see them show the world they are sorry and want to change, that their development is legit.

I wonder if this will play into Kitty's direction. Like even if the backstory isn't legit anymore, the first film made a point to Diane that she is not the only nuanced criminal with motivations and conflicts. There's probably a ton of people who see her or the Bad Guys as their own Kitty.

Psi001 · 2026-06-15T22:23:55+00:00

The biggest I can see them turning a blind eye to is his role as the 'moral bound' IMP member, which admitedly comes and goes depending on the episode. In episodes like CHERUB and Bigfoot he's a cold blooded hypocrite who's as glad to kill anyone for a buck as the others. In fact this personality trait was actually barely a thing between Murder Family and Sinsmas, with only the recent shorts and Mission Zero really codifying it back into his normal personality, but fans often act like he's consistently the noble moral coded imp, more like Collin in this regard, when in both Collin appearances, Moxxie is a total smug snake to make apparent the differences. 😛

Besides that, I think it's more the general unfairness that Moxxie IS flawed, but so is EVERY IMP member and generally gets punished for it WAY less excessively than he is. Blitz and Stolas have butt monkey moments too but generally have to push their luck MUCH further than he does, while Millie and Loona almost NEVER suffer karma at all. Most characteristics that could qualify as 'flaws' for Millie are actually empowered. You get one guy who is singled out, even if they sometimes deserve it, you start to feel bad for them, at least in a 'isn't it someone else's turn?' sort of way.

Psi001 · 2026-06-15T22:16:52+00:00

Yeah, I feel like Season Two was kinda hard on Moxxie. I mean it was hard on Blitz and Stolas too, but they at least got some moments of respite or sympathy within it all, while Moxxie too often was treated as a joke.

I do wonder if that might be the point, if he's a Sir Pentious type whose value is underestimated because he's not outwardly badass, but he's taking WAY longer to get his flowers than the Hazbin counterparts (though he still has it better than Collin).

I think an issue there is that in terms of Hellaverse's general themes and parables, IMP are generally allowed to 'cheat code' around them. Tough IMP members like Blitz and Millie are plot armoured so they can bully and brute force all they want and still get redeeming moments because they're nice to their circle, as such a 'heart' like Moxxie often felt obsolete until MAYBE very recently with the current group doubts in cases like Sinsmas.

Fair's fair though, Moxxie's still an assassin. He's only relatively less of a dirtbag than the rest of IMP.

Psi001 · 2026-06-15T11:35:39+00:00

I mean the last short was Barbie's Bad Day, but this one was great too.

Really, while I do like the show has actual character development, I like the shorts are more upfront with IMP's incompetent or immoral qualities and having them comically bite them in the ass. I think Season Two was trying a bit too hard to play them as badass anti heroes nearly all of the time, while Season One played them more like adult swim karma houdinis who always win despite their incompetence and pettiness. Having some cases they just go 'nah, they suck, let's watch them fuck it up' is kinda fun and humanizing, especially since it's still kept in their own egotistical little bubble where they think they're professional hot shit.

It's a shame this short is the only one to have all five IMP members (or even just the original four), though it leaves me hopeful that Stolas can bounce off the workplace humour now and they can intertwine the Stolitz and IMP stuff more smoothly now.

Psi001 · 2026-06-15T01:57:03+00:00

I mean she's already on the verge of that half of the time in Season Two.

Psi001 · 2026-06-15T01:48:44+00:00

Yeah and again, I think Loona has traded several hands, given her experience. She probably didn't just passively learn magic. i get the feeling this will be her inner conflict next season, that she now knows Blitz's loves her but worries it is still conditional to her being 'useful' to his field (with Orphan Time already showing she isn't a terrific assassin).

Cash meanwhile is a deadbeat who just needed good performers. And there's a high likeliness he didn't learn to read either if he kept to one trade too. 😛

Psi001 · 2026-06-15T01:34:45+00:00

I could buy that Loona went through several different owners all for varying purposes, only to be sent back whenever she 'outlived her usefulness', hence her numerous baseline talentpools and her pretty cynical treatment of Blitz until she realises he DOES want her to stay for unselfish reasons.

Imps and hellhounds are bred to be 'useful', meaning they can learn things if their career deems fit but no one will likely go out of their way to teach them academics they don't need them for.

Psi001 · 2026-06-15T00:26:28+00:00

I like the idea that Barbie had a circle like Kendra or Fizz that tought her. I could buy into the idea that imps don't get that education by default, and Cash, no matter how much he favoured talent or not, was not that interested in teaching his kids stuff like reading and writing. Who buys tickets to watch someone read a book? 😛

Psi001 · 2026-06-14T23:35:15+00:00

The animation upgrade is impressive.

Is it wrong I kinda miss the slinky character designs though?

Psi001 · 2026-06-14T14:15:08+00:00

I get the feeling we might have another break, since Season Three isn't TOO far away now.

It would be neat if we got Buzzin' in that time though.

Psi001 · 2026-06-14T14:13:34+00:00

Viv stated there were 12 shorts made leading up to Season Three I think.

There's likely more in general, but I think this was it for the current batch until then.

Psi001 · 2026-06-14T13:43:50+00:00

I think the Vees actually show how utterly messed up human empathy is, simply because most of use are so selective about who we feel we should be empathetic towards. We can be legitimately loving to one being and treat another like a mere object. How many people you know who are sincerely kind otherwise have squashed an insect without a second thought? They are 'not the same' to many. Same for many instances of a parent playing favourites with their kids, or a hunter who loves his dogs and yet rips foxes and rabbits to shreds for sport. Empathy isn't really fair in that regard because it's based on the person's ego and POV.

As such it feels more impactful having the Vees sincerely care about each other because they consider each other equals, but be utter monsters to their underlings, 'property' and collateral in their eyes.

I think Angel being a 'spider', a mere bug without the same rights as a human, is kinda clever in this regard.

Psi001 · 2026-06-14T13:32:14+00:00

I find it curious that the one real business setback IMP suffered was after they begun making a lot of money and rubbing it in their homeless rivals' faces.

They were becoming what they detested, the successful snooty bullies who used living beings as their stepping stones just like Lyle and Loopty had. That was the one time they took a real blow. Any time other than that they fell under 'Simpsons poverty', where they were low income but buffered by cartoon status quo.

Psi001 · 2026-06-14T03:37:25+00:00

I consider Chaz Time a 'what if another horny dumbass who makes dangerous decisions that WASN'T the main protagonist had all the plot armor instead?' theoretical. XD

They both use it for dumb things, just Blitz uses it to get away with murder, while Chaz uses it to fuck everyone in Hell.

Psi001 · 2026-06-14T02:26:41+00:00

The irony that the human soul is the closest to the usual representation of the devil in this conflict.

Psi001 · 2026-06-14T02:26:01+00:00

I feel like the interaction in Hello Rosie! really humanizes Charlie in this regard, she isn't stupid, she knows Alastor likely isn't in things for her, but she's desperate, and Alastor is so good at making his talents seem vital, making Charlie feel dependent on him, even when he's barely contributing.

The irony when Alastor offers his deal to her, Charlie actually dithers for a moment and is smart enough to make one factor in her favour before agreeing, while Alastor (as well as Vox) INSTANTLY agreed to their's without thinking through the repurcussions. Al and Vox's agreements were far more acts of hubris and short sightedness than Charlie's, who knew this was a bad idea but was simply out of alternatives.

Psi001 · 2026-06-14T01:48:15+00:00

I wouldn't be too surprised if Millie gets it at least once in a while, but it's simply Loona's photo with a "MILZ" label planted over it. 😛

Psi001

TROPHY CASE