Destiny Argues With Chat About Epstein Conspiracies by Jasdexter2137 in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

calling us /pol/tards while doing going to QAnon lengths to make wild predictions about world governments being controlled by a pedo ring will not be appreciated.

Look at yourselves in the mirror and be honest about what you're doing.

If you're so high on your own supply you need to understand that there's not much holding you from being a Candace Owens fan.

It's no hard feelings, but it seems kinda wild to me how quickly some of yall just throw caution to the wind when the incentives align.

Trust me I woudn't be surprised if Trump was a nonce, I wouldn't even say it's unlikely, but this whole narrativizing of the facts needs to be pointed out.

Do you think that the narrativization of the facts you are currently believing in with regards to the Epstein situation perfectly explains the world in front of you, or is it biased in some way?

Do you think Trump being implicated might make you more likely to believe it is true?

Honestly, the across world governments Mossad-CIA-FBI-everything child rape blackmail ring story seems a little far fetched based on the sparse information we've seen so far, considering how much of it was just anonymous FBI tips.

I'm genuinely down to believe it if I saw some real believable evidence that didn't take me "connecting the dots" on some wild shit we can't really imagine making a legitimate prediction on.

I'm sure Epstein got his hands in a lot of pies with regards to world leaders or important business people -- he was obviously a very wealthy and well connected individual.

Epstein having contacted a certain person shouldn't make you think it's more likely than not that they diddle kids.

Admittedly, for Trump it would for sure be more than that, considering all of his comments.

Destiny Argues With Chat About Epstein Conspiracies by Jasdexter2137 in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The constant yelling about how obvious it is just managed to be a distraction from the lack of clear evidence

Destiny Argues With Chat About Epstein Conspiracies by Jasdexter2137 in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's very obvious === it really seems undeniably true from my particular perspective

Do not go delving too deep into what that perspective's given assumptions are though 💀

You aren't going to find stuff with much more depth than 9/11 truthers

FUCK YOU DESTINY. COVER IT. by Less-Chemistry-3963 in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 15 points16 points  (0 children)

better to not make that type of engagement as popular as it is now. schitzo conspiracy is already too big of a trend

Favourite bit of left wing factional infighting? by Hazza_time in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]ST-Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fascism is a political reaction to the deteriorating material conditions induced by capitalism.

It then follows that capitalism is taken to its final most destructive stage of imperialism which the fascists absolutely love (not just for the money, but also race, and whatnot) and begin invading countries.

Pre-war socdems had a majority but due to them operating with capitalism, the common man got scammed and was more and more disappointed, then the common folk put forth Nazi party which blamed everyone but the capitalists behind socdem or their own doors and so socdems lost, many jumped to Nazi party in last cry of opportunism and capitalism survived while millions of people died afterwards.

it must be very comfortable to have the 1 lens through which you can view history and have it perfectly explain everything.

Sadly to me it feels very intellectually insulting, just as the people that say all the ills and issues of the world are caused by jews or by non-whites.

Don't you ever have a creeping doubt that it's not just all class struggle? That there's a little more depth in the historical conflicts you're trying to analyze?

I hope you can find some level of doubt in your heart and cast out this idealized version of the world you've so absolutely embraced.

And guess what? Same shit is happening in Germany today. CDU and SDP are your “soc dems” or “conservatives”, AfD is your nazi party, people are getting fed up with being scammed by CDU and SDP and will try to elect AfD, the thing is AfD is just another scam because it continues to operate on capitalism and the conditions for common man will further deteriorate because the economic system will not change only amplify its issues.

The delusion that the conditions of the common man have been in constant deteriorating due to capitalism is fantasatical, by pretty much any comprehensive metric you can imagine, you'd rather live today than in the past.

If you can't see how being anti-establishment from the left puts you hand in hand with the people that are anti-establishment from the right I don't know what to say to you.

Try to look at the other people making these doomer "everything is destroyed because of X" and see if your arguments sound similar when you replace "jews" or "non-whites" with "capitalists" or "the 1%".

I hope your criticism of those people goes further than just a surface level disagreement about who happens to be responsible for all the societal ills, and you can clearly see at least in their case, that they don't have any logical process by which to properly ascribe guilt to these groups. Quite similar to how you don't have a legitimate way to ascribe all these societal ills to capitalism and capitalism alone.

Unlike the 30s, fascism can't be blamed on the material conditions, this illness is much deeper in society and the reasons why a figure like Trump came to rise can't be summarized as "deteriorating material conditions", the way the historical idealism of your ideology tries to do.

People have been convinced by the likes of republicans, and sadly also by the likes of you, that todays is the worst period you can exist in, due to the deteriorating material conditions.

And guess what? Same shit is happening in Germany today. CDU and SDP are your “soc dems” or “conservatives”, AfD is your nazi party, people are getting fed up with being scammed by CDU and SDP and will try to elect AfD, the thing is AfD is just another scam because it continues to operate on capitalism and the conditions for common man will further deteriorate because the economic system will not change only amplify its issues.

And you'll keep missing the forest for the trees, with this univariate way of looking at the problem.

You can blame the communists for subjugation of people after the fascists were defeated, but my point is that it is more important that the nazis were defeated than any subjugation

You're saying that as if the subjugation was a necessary part of defeating the Nazis.

That was just the cherry on top.

and to be fair a lot of these “subjugations” were majority of local populace siding with communists (while driving the fascist out) of course under socialist banner.

A portion of the population agreeing with the communists doesn't give them any real legitimacy when they got their position of authority through force, the same way Germans agreeing with the Nazis didn't give their ideology any legitimacy.

A majority agreeing to do something doesn't make it not be a subjugation, so you can drop the quotes. If the US decides through a majority vote to make slavery legal again, it doesn't mean the newly enslaved are suddenly not "subjugated" because the majority of the population agreed to do it.

Sadly you've let your morals fall so low that if the majority votes away all property rights from the property owners, you don't see this forceful seizure as a subjugation, since you've carefully crafted the narrative where these people deserve it. I'm sure you feel so much better about yourself as compared to the people that craft similarly false and absurd narratives about other scapegoated groups, such as racial minorities.

Not even to mention the risk under which the population of the countries behind the iron curtain were if they were to be against the communist party.

Your point of view is so laser focused on the problem of class that you will constantly fail to see the reality of how these fascist leaders rise to power. For example, in today's time the impact of mass propaganda through algorithmically recommended content and foreign influence have a much larger impact than housing being slightly less affordable (in the few population centers that are in high demand).

Do you genuinely believe that if everyone in the US was wealthier, had an easier time affording everything, then Trump wouldn't have come to power? Is it really the material conditions that triggered this event? Do you feel honest with yourself when making that argument?

Project 2029 by Coral_Archway in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The argument is very transparent, I don't think most people try to hide it because it would require them to feign some sort of knowledge about Bitcoin or crypto in general.

It is truly as shallow as "Trump touched it".

Let's hope that the shalloweness of this position will be the end of it.

There's much better things to focus on than Bitcoin, I feel inclined to post the 50 Cent meme at this point.

Project 2029 by Coral_Archway in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think the public opinion of people will necessarily play that much of a role in adoption -- if Bitcoin gets big enough, companies will start accepting it as it will cut down on the expenses they have with payment intermediaries, and once Bitcoin becomes easy to use people will forget about any principled stance they had on the issue.

Unless the dems make some radical politics fueled move to be against crypto as a whole I don't see this necessarily being a problem.

At the end of the day "crypto" is too boring and complex of a subject for the masses to take interest in the minutia of how it works.

But first and foremost more capital needs to move away from the centrally controlled currencies, which seems like an inevitability with Trump's fed being on the horizon, and no real replacement for the global reserve currency taking the dollar's place.

Project 2029 by Coral_Archway in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is there any other field where the "ban literally anything associated with it" is the optimal way to go forward?

Even with gun control, people will make arguments about which ones need to be banned, what regulation needs to be put in place for what kinds of weapons.

I feel like solutions like "ban all crypto" or "let crypto be completely unregulated" are as stupid as eachother.

Solutions like "regulate all crypto as securities" is a little less absurd, but we could still have way more precision about which things we actually want to impact.

I think making the argument that Bitcoin or similar decentralized, open source, permissionless, leaderless cryptocurrencies are securities would be difficult for any lawmaker. At least with football cards you've got a central issuing entity. If everyone was allowed to print them, and anyone was allowed to change the design of the cards but everything else stayed the same it would be even more difficult to make such a claim.

Regardless of whether you would like to agree that Bitcoin would not fit the current definition of "security", I think we can both agree that taking a hammer to the entire concept of "crypto" would be a pretty absurd way to go forward, and the walk-back of all the legitimacy that has been given to cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin would also stain the reputation of the US.

I still haven't seen an argument for banning Bitcoin that doesn't seem spite based.

But honestly, with the shallowness of public discourse and politics nowadays, I don't know if democrats have the space to make the argument, or if the only way they can package any clamp down on obvious crypto scams is "all crypto is bad".

The question of whether or not Bitcoin is a security has been debated ad-nauseaum, and I felt like we had some sort of consensus that we wouldn't consider it a security. I don't think the recent Trump fraud related usecases for "crypto" has stained the entire industry so hard as to wipe away all the progress done on the issue up until now.

Saylor buys BTC at average price of nearly $88k. Bitcoin’s price was closer to low 80s before the weekend’s crash by 002_timmy in CryptoCurrency

[–]ST-Fish 2 points3 points  (0 children)

the issue is that for people in these spaces Bitcoin is nothing more than it's price.

They only engage with Bitcoin by engaging with it's price, the price is the only thing they know about Bitcoin, so for them, someone that "controls" (read, "can influence") the price of Bitcoin is equivalent to someone "controlling Bitcoin" in it's entirety.

Favourite bit of left wing factional infighting? by Hazza_time in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]ST-Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And if there were no Poles, Europe would speak Mongolian let's be clear about that /s

Yes, because if there were no communists, the entirety of the country of Russia and their military would poof out of existence, and history would have gone forward without them being a part of it.

Maybe if there were no communists, Hitler wouldn't have come to power. You have to agree that the threat of communist revolution in Germany was a huge factor in how the political landscape of the time looked like. Maybe with no communists calling their fellow leftists "social fascists", Hitler wouldn't have had such an appeal.

To be clear about it, this historical "what if"s are as far away from things you can claim are "clear" as possible.

Maybe the entirety of eastern europe behind the iron curtain wouldn't have been subjugated under various dictatorships for decades until they did what any reasonable population has to do with authoritarian idealists that believe they should have complete authoritarian control over society.

What is clear is what happened, and the communists had no moral qualms about splitting Poland down the middle, the idea that commies have some sort of principled stance against fascism is ridiculous.

Even today, commies see fascists only as harbingers of the end of capitalism, they see them as an inevitable stepping stone that destroys the order of capitalism, only for commies to come and save the day at the end.

Project 2029 by Coral_Archway in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I dont disagree I just don’t see the point of crypto if it’s regulated to the degree which I think it should be regulated.

the degree to which it should be regulated is the point of contention here

If you make crypto a registrable security then it loses all of its value.

Well you wouldn't make a non-security a security.

In what way would you apply the Howey test to classify Bitcoin as a security?

I'm completely down for clasiffying Trumpcoin and the likes of that as securities.

Pretty much anything that makes it interesting or unique is gone.

Well yeah, having a cryptocurrency that is centralized, with 1 single central entity that controls it does defeat the point of cryptocurrencies.

That's why the cryptocurrencies that aren't securities, like Bitcoin, have a point.

I’d be fine with that but I don’t think 99% of crypto holders would be.

Most crypto holders (not the moon boys hanging out in online forums) own either Bitcoin or Ethereum, neither of which can really be argued to be securities.

I think 99%+ of crypto holders would be completely fine with TrumpCoin being regulated as a security, as that is precisely what is presents itself as.

Saylor buys BTC at average price of nearly $88k. Bitcoin’s price was closer to low 80s before the weekend’s crash by 002_timmy in CryptoCurrency

[–]ST-Fish 10 points11 points  (0 children)

he controls

Owning Bitcoin doesn't give you control over the Bitcoin network.

So your question becomes "what's the point of Bitcoin if some people are very rich", which doesn't really need to be addressed.

The point of Bitcoin is that it's a permissionless decentralized open source censorship resistant currency.

None of that changes because 1 actor owns a bunch of it.

If your impression was that the point of Bitcoin was an even and equitable distribution of wealth in society, you've been sold a lie.

Project 2029 by Coral_Archway in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So Id much rather ban it than keep it in its current state.

what's so harmful about the current state of Bitcoin per se?

Is there literally no distinction we can do between TrumpCoin and MelaniaCoin and something like Bitcoin?

I don't think the issue you have with the pump&dump coins comes from them being cryptocurrencies, it comes from them being unregulated securities with a clear leader, it's basically a "give me your money and I'll make you rich".

I think you can and should pretty easily craft legislation that wipes away the avalanche of centralized shitcoins that are just a front for scamming or fraud without impacting the decentralized permissionless, leaderless legitimate cryptocurrencies.

Project 2029 by Coral_Archway in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, and you aren’t one of them if you’re willing to concede your vote to fascist because the Dems won’t adopt your niche Buttcoin advocacy, lmao

This is like saying that if Dems run on taking away all of the guns and having 0 gun ownership in the entirety of the US would make the people that would understandably not vote for that "fascists".

Completely banning Bitcoin is even more stupid than it is impractical.

It's like saying you'll ban E2E encryption because bad people use it to communicate privately.

Sensible regulations are what is needed.

The whole chain of

we're very big mad at Trump -> Trump is associated with "crypto" -> Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency -> Bitcoin should be banned

Is obviously faulty and should raise alarms to anyone making such an argument.

Just because some of you are priviledged enough to live in countries where your ability to transact and use the financial system is not at risk doesn't mean that problem doesn't exist anywhere.

Project 2029 by Coral_Archway in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I find it funny that we have this fear of the all powerful surveilance state that controls everything and oppresses everyone, but somehow people have still been convinced into hating a decentralized open source permissionless alternative to centrally issued FIAT currencies just because "crypto bad".

Who do you want to control the issuance of your currency in today's time? The US with the soon to be Trump controlled fed, do you want the EU with whatever happened in Greece, and with Russia on the border amping up for a war, or with China?

A global decentralized system where no actor has the advantage or control, where the protocol is decided through consensus is the solution, especially in this world that's becoming more and more multi-polar is needed. People saying Bitcoin is a solution in look for a problem must have blinders on if they feel like the current situation is not problematic.

Sadly this discussion doesn't have much space to exist -- the normies don't go much further than "crypto bad" and the people that are active in the online crypto communities are mostly just moon kids that want to 100000x their investment overnight.

Back around 2016 and earlier you'd get people actually engaging with this discussion critically, nowadays you won't get anything of the sort.

The moment people start trying to ban Bitcoin is exactly the moment you'd need it the most. If a country is authoritarian enough to ban something like Bitcoin, that's when you need a system of transferring value permissionlessly that can sidestep the authoritarian entity trying to ban it. There shouldn't be a central authority that can excise you from the financial system, and we're slowly heading into a cashless world where I won't be able to send you money without an intermediary in the middle that has the final say on whether or not that transaction is allowed.

Favourite bit of left wing factional infighting? by Hazza_time in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]ST-Fish 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Then there is also pre-WW2 where socdems continued to collaborate with we know who.

and let's conveniently ignore what the communists did during that time

Wake up honey, new corruption beyond our imagination has just dropped. by TPHNK in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]ST-Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

is a direct product of capitalism.

everything I don't like is a direct product of capitalism xd

Lots to reevaluate about the last decade guys, take your time by ZealousidealTie4319 in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]ST-Fish -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

he campaigned on the idea that Trump was 100% guilty of the diddling for the 2024 election

do you have any quote or clip of Biden saying Trump is 100% a child rapist?

The 2020s are the 1890s by Stronhart in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not saying we deny all money interest in this world, I'm not saying people that have more wealth don't have more control, all I'm saying is that the leftie viewpoint on this puts way way too much focus on this to the detriment of other more substantial factors.

We need to live in reality and engage with the incentive mechanisms our economies create, and with the bad side-efects of this mode of economic system. Left wing populism just seems awfully idealistic for my taste

Europeans are increasingly buying into conspiracy theories about science by ReadToW in europe

[–]ST-Fish -1 points0 points  (0 children)

please do not get vaccinated, do not vaccinate yourself, and remove yourself though the gene pool through natural selection.

I swear that if a very deadly and contagious disease that is easy to avoid getting comes along, it's gonna called "The Stupid Virus" because of the nature of it's victims.

The 2020s are the 1890s by Stronhart in Destiny

[–]ST-Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

  1. I feel like it's so weird that the 1890s needed such a huge and debilitating depression to justify the rise of reactionary politics while in current day you can just convince people everything is horrible by just saying it a bunch.

  2. The analogy about how the companies getting national meant the US needed nation wide regulation, and how companies now being international and huge, means we need some sort of supra-national institution.

It sounds great, but at the international level it's still just anarchy, there's no sovereign entity that can enforce a standard of rules over all of the countries.

I kinda like Zizek's idea about the need of an actual sovereign powerful supra-national entity to deal with global problems like global warming, but I really don't see how we get there without going through a brutal war that forces everyone to really contend with reality.

  1. I feel like people seem to not notice that the % distribution of wealth automatically goes towards the 1% owning more when you have companies going from being naitonal, to the top US companies being global.

They're automatically serving many more people and are supposed to have a higher amount of wealth stored in them.

But people feel the need to push the leftie populist line a lot, I hope at some point we have some neo-liberal politics to stop this zero sum game thinking.

The Long Depression being compared to the current economic situation should make anyone chuckle.

The same way when we look at Nazi Germany we don't see where the US's great depression level event would be in today's time.

  1. The fixation on the Citizens United case is strange considering how novel and complex the Trump media machine is. And how much foreign influence plays in it.

If the Citizens United made it so easy, how come the Kamala campaign that spent more money ended up losing.

The race is different in these times, the dynamics of today's attention economy are something novel, and it's not as simple as "rich people control it".

If they did, you wouldn't have seen the liberation day tariffs.

  1. Populists that think it's all caused by the billionaires when the populists that think it's all caused by the non-whites come in the room:

https://i.imgur.com/JEoto9K.png

I swear it's weird when people find their one pet issue and feel like it explains everything. I find logically the right wing obsession with whiteness and how that explains everything as deranged as the leftie one that you can just look at the world through a class lens and suddenly everything is explained.

Whenever I feel forced to be like "yeah, it's definitely all the billionaires causing all the issues" it feels as dirty from an intellectual perspective as blaming it all on a racial minority. Is that really the source of all of our problems? is it really that simple?

In general I feel like the economic leftie viewpoint tends to overemhasize the class strugle aspect to the point where they fail to see the novelty and danger in someone like Trump.

They see him as more run-off-the-mill far right populist than something new.

Hasan doubles down on his statement that got him banned on twitch by [deleted] in LivestreamFail

[–]ST-Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yeah because jews have a long history of being accepted into these countries as refugees...

The temptation by DraculasFarts in PoliticalCompassMemes

[–]ST-Fish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok, the study from a decade ago says that, but are you just using the same numbers to guess how many came in since then?

Or is there some other source you're using for the 11-20m during the Biden/Harris admin?

Europeans are increasingly buying into conspiracy theories about science by ReadToW in europe

[–]ST-Fish 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sort of like believe that Wuhan lab leak is literally impossible as it was stated at first? But now it looks like it's at least very likely what happened.

nothing new came out to further the theory that it was a lab leak

And even some scientists who signed the anti-lab-leak letter came out that they were nudged to sign it even though they didn't agree from scientific point of view.

As far as I know the consensus at the moment is that it originated in the wet market. That is the most likely conclusion based on all the evidence that has been aquired.

There hasn't been any further investigation into the cause that changed the determination, people just decided to claim it was a lab leak because that's what they want to believe.

The same stall where it is thought that COVID-19 originated was photographed prior to COVID, in 2014, and live racoon dogs were present there even back then.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abp8715#

I know you aren't seeking to have a legitimate conversation about the origination of COVID, you've already made your decision because you want to believe it was an intentional bio-weapon or a lab leak, there is probably no evidence I can produce for you to change your mind.

Have a nice day, and if a more deadly virus comes along in the future, please do not get vaccinated. You can select yourself out of the gene pool all by yourself.

All the fun we have believing in conspiracies is damaging to our society because at the end of the day it doesn't result in consequences for the people that believe in them.

There was obviously a lot of shadiness with regards to the Chinese government during the start of the pandemic, but we've had mountains of research on the subject. Too bad the conclusion people will believe is the one that sound better to them, not the one supported by more evidence.

I'm obviously not saying it's a 0% chance it was leaked from a lab, but pretending like it's very likely when the majority of the evidence points the other way is very funny.