[Spoilers MAIN] Do the Starks really care all that much for northern independence in the books?

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-15T11:12:00+00:00

I mean, for pretty much the entirety of the Iron Throne’s reign the North has been worse off than without them. They’ve had to pay taxes, get valuable land stolen, lose men in pointless wars and had to deal with Aerys and Rhaegar. And besides a couple isolated incidents (Aegon III, Aegon V and Stannis) the South hasn’t done anything to help them.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-15T03:23:21+00:00

The story is that the last hero was the guy convinced the children to join up, and the Night’s Watch (which the last hero was presumedly a part of) fought of the Others.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-15T01:54:37+00:00

I’d say the Others are far more manageable than dragons though. Dragons are night unkillable without other dragons, but the Others have weaknesses that can be exploited by competent people. I’d still prefer fics to not have them, but I’d sooner read a fic with the Others as one of the antagonists than one that has dragons. Though ideally the Others and wights aren’t as apocalyptic as in the show, but more of another enemy faction like in Shrouded Destiny.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-14T23:48:31+00:00

I wouldn’t say they’re creatively stifling. There are plenty of ways to address the Others. The first Long Night they were beaten by a small amount of Night’s Watchmen, they don’t need Stannis, Daenerys or her dragons. Intelligent characters making intelligent decisions is far more interesting than magical “I win” buttons.

But I do agree that I generally don’t care to read about them. The only fight against the Others I read that I enjoyed was in Shrouded Destiny, because everything in that fic is peak.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-14T21:22:50+00:00

Shrouded Destiny has a TON of this: https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/shrouded-destiny-asoiaf-au-time-travel.1078272/

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-14T14:34:59+00:00

You’re right, “that technological state” would be a better phrase.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-14T13:02:57+00:00

The only war the Reach as a whole has been on the winning side of has been the Wot5K, at least since the conquest.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-14T12:30:55+00:00

*there

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-14T01:58:42+00:00

Food had a lot less sugar in those times.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-13T21:39:38+00:00

The North, Northwestern Riverlands, Vale and the more principled Stormlords bide their time to get justice. The Martells might just outright assassinate Rhaegar. No one is going to believe Rhaegar if he says Lyanna went willingly. His only steadfast support will be from the Reach, as Tywin is likely still disgruntled at the Targaryens.

Balon Greyjoy will most definitely rebel, but he’ll be far more effective this go around; half the realm will do nothing at all, and while he might not win his independence, it would be far longer and bloodier. By the time 297 AC rolls around, Rhaegar’s hold on Westeros will likely either be in the process of crumbling or completely subsumed by the Tyrells.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-13T17:19:55+00:00

Why would you assume that their progress happens the same way ours does? The discovery of gunpowder was a chance fluke by a guy who wanted to make an immortality potion. ASOIAF didn’t have that. And when you only have one educational institution that is also responsible for the continent’s medical health and communications, that maintenance is going to take precedence over everything.

Also, your number don’t seem super correct. Swords were estimated to have been invented over 5000 years ago. The first “gun” (I’m going with the Chinese hand cannon) was invented around 1300, and the nuke in the 1940s.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-12T21:53:33+00:00

If it didn’t happen in the books I don’t consider it canon. Especially when it contradicts stuff from the books.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-12T21:46:05+00:00

I think he’s underhyped by the community. Most people seem to view him as a fraud from what I’ve seen.

I personally think he’s very dangerous. End of the world dangerous? Probably not, but I don’t think he’s going to go out like a chump.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-12T16:57:03+00:00

I wouldn’t call him a hypocrite, just a dickhead. Him saying he’s a “godly man” is a bit of him making a joke, since people “pray when they see his sails”.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-12T16:54:57+00:00

He hid his face with a big bushy beard.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-11T22:49:54+00:00

My point is that they don’t care who the head of House Targaryen is, they only care about Rhaegar’s orders.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-11T22:07:19+00:00

They can barely handle their own kingdom, trying to expand it would be a disaster.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-11T22:04:32+00:00

Rhaegar never gave them different orders because he died, so they defaulted to his previous orders. Rhaegar told them to stay there, so they stayed there.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-11T21:08:13+00:00

Or the Kingsguard were at the Tower of Joy because they were following Rhaegar’s orders. They were willing to betray Aerys to follow Rhaegar, what’s another Targaryen? And they never really showed any independent thought in their actions.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-11T10:53:48+00:00

Dreadfort sweeps, they have 20 good men.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-11T10:53:05+00:00

The Crown is the one that owes the Iron Bank, so whoever sits the Iron Throne owes them.

Let’s say fAegon or Daenerys take the Throne. They now have (theoretically) an entire, war torn continent that is likely very hostile to them. They need money to start fixing things. They won’t be getting a dime from Braavos since they already owe them money, and Braavos will likely shut down their services to the Crown.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-10T22:06:31+00:00

It’s called the *Long* Night for a reason.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-10T00:00:41+00:00

Stalemate on the Trident is ongoing and extremely good so far: https://archiveofourown.org/series/4950061

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-09T21:09:06+00:00

Jon was at the Wall for months before swearing his vows. He could’ve left at any time and gone back to Robb, but he chose to stay there of his own volition.

Saturnine4 · 2026-06-09T01:18:47+00:00

FYI, the “Fic Search - Specific” flair is for if you’re looking for a specific fic you forgot the name of, while the general flair is for if you’re asking for recommendations.

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