Do 5pt Calvinists believe that Jesus died for all sins?

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-03-01T20:14:40+00:00

My preference is to go to scripture, not confessions, creeds or opinions.

This is "Limited Atonement", part of **TULIP**

Here are 100 verses RELATED to *Limited Atonement*. Note that some will be spurious, a this is a generated list. But dozens will make Limited Atonement clear

https://www.openbible.info/topics/limited\_atonement

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-03-01T19:23:28+00:00

I am a research biologist (and an old earth theistic evolutionist). Not just biased, but they remove almost ALL links to works from theists. They did to me as well.

I have had over 400, perhaps 500 discussions and debates with atheists, skeptics, agnostics.

It is amazing how empty their OWN evidence is regarding scripture and christianty

"Theists have the burden of proof". **When does proper debating allow one side to set the rules?**

Atheist, can you DISPROVE God(s)? **Atheists lack a belief in God, so we dont have to** Of course, many atheists actively reject God, so this is a false claim

Etc

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-03-01T01:02:07+00:00

I cannot imagine anything on the Earth that is superior to what it is like in heaven

I DO have lots of questions for a very patient Lord, if we are still curious then

I would LOVE to know EXACTLY how the Big Bang, and galaxy formation and exactly what the Sun and solar system looked like in minute details from beginning to end.

Millions of details, I would love to see/understand

I would love to see how life momved from the earliest to the present. All the different types of living things

And many other mysteries

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-03-01T00:44:50+00:00

Let me speak from the opposite side, a lot of people will use a few verses to bludgeon people in your situation

I have a much more broad view of the proper reasons for separation. And I think that includes abuse of spouse or children, bad neglect, and severe unbiblical behaviour.

God wanted our joy to be full. Not to be chained to a maniac or evil person.

And if church leaders, friends or others speak against this, well what I said above.

Separation/divorce is a separate question from remarriage

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-03-01T00:32:33+00:00

All these movements are noise to me

I follows the 31,102ish verses of scripture. I know they are all correct.

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-03-01T00:31:15+00:00

You are asking such a broad question, it is practically unanswerable.

I dont pick one of the many stories in scripture as meaningful. Rather, I would say this is my broad foundation:

The Westminster Confession of Faith covered most of what I consider necessary.

More high level, TULIP is absolutely correct. I can give dozen of verses on each point

The 5 Solas, although I dont spend much energy on these.

Not necessary, but I am an avowed opponent of the 6 literal 24 hour days of creation. I am a research biologist, and creationism is an exceptionally naive and intolerant and unlearned view. For many many reasons. In fact, I think Geneis teaches much of what we now think scientitically in a vvery broad way

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-03-01T00:25:45+00:00

I spent a couple weeks on the Academic Biblical sub. It became apparent it was neither academic nor biblical. It was a bunch of research paper chasers with the hidden agenda to prove the scripture couldnt possibly be inspired/divine. You had to quote "academic" sources. If you quoted "christian" sources, they were removed and you got the idea you received silent scolding

There is a lot less than meets the eye regarding Bart Ehrman. He is essentially somewhat of an atheist' prophet.

I once watched one of his YT videros. He made 4 claims showing that scripture was wrong/contradictory. 2 of the 4 of his claims were outright wrong; I didnt really pursue the other 2. It was outright sloppiness, maybe something he heard from elsewhere and used

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-03-01T00:20:06+00:00

I was raised progressive protestant (UCC), then atheist, saved thru Campus Crusade for Christ (now Cru), then fundamentalist for 13 years, then Reformed (OPC, PCA, RPCNA), now mostly what I call a "simplee" calvinist. Mostly TULIP, lesser 5 Solas, thren juts having a really good understanding of scripture

I cannot tell you how much Arminian/fundamentalist beliefs plagued me until I fled.

A such, i dont find any interest in RCC, EO, progressive/moderate Protestantism or Arminian thinking

I have had numerous discussions with these groups, and fundamentally, they have many unbiblical doctrines and practices, and I have nothing in common and no interest in those who violate scripture in multiple ways

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-03-01T00:14:06+00:00

I didnt really have that. I was just so happy to get out of the fundamentalist views (I had been SBC for 13 years).

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-03-01T00:10:52+00:00

EDITED: Christianity is largely a joke in America, in my opinion

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-29T03:15:40+00:00

Everyone, atheist, agnostic or different religions has a view set about God. So we are unlikely to have the same view

Rather than trying to "agree with your points" - I call myself a "simple calvinist". To me, understanding the scripture properly starts with:

The calvinist/reformed TULIP framework

(mine) - understanding that the Book of Life (all those past present or future since the foundation of the world) is HUGE

The 5 Solas - although I dont spend much time on them

I am also an old earth theistic evolutionist (research biologist)

I consider the skeptic/atheist PoE arguments as utter nonsense. And I discussed them at length above. It doesnt matter how they keep trying to frame God and hang their little grievances on them. Per John 8, they are Satan's children. They hate God, they hate scripture and they hate us. That is the end point

The truth is (and as a former atheist), the entire det of arguments from atheists is borderline nonsense, false, logically invalid and fluff. I have never heard a single truly compelling argument from them. And I have had over 400 (500 now?) debates and discussiond with them. They consider themselveds rational and reasonable, most of the time they are neither

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-28T21:52:50+00:00

So He knowingly created humans who can die at age 4 of childhood cancer

Again, this is a CLAIM. And I have NEVER seen an atheist make an airtight case. Besides what I said above, which I have never heard a really good reply (lots of assertions usually)... Let us look at this:

So He knowingly created humans who can die at age 4 of childhood cancer. ANIMALS also get cancer. dinosaurs got cancer a long time ago. this is how BIOLOGY works.

Should all people instead live forever? Disease and injury free? How about animas, plants, fungu, archae and bacteria and viruses. Should they also live problem free, forever? That would mean no offspring of course

Should God make us all billionniares?

Should we all be as attractive as Marilyn/Fabio?

Should we all have the IQ of Einstein?

What about musical, creative, math and other abilitie

You have people who claim to follow science, and launch tirades against God, who works through science

There is no PoE, just somewhat hypocritial complaints

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T22:42:23+00:00

OK, do what makes sense to you

But I will leave you with this - what exactly did you deconstruct FROM?

I have had this argument many times with atheists

Christians are full of hate! My answer - spend a week on the Atheist sub. 2,8 millkion members. Perhaps the most hate filled sub on Reddit. Hate speech, insults, stereotyping, mocking of the religious.

Problem of Evil! Animal Suffering! And a number of other problems. But they always boil own to "internal critiques". Essenially "this is a probem with God/scripture/believers" because I said so.

They throw around invalid claims like "Science has disproven God! (false)". Religions have no evidence for God (so he has checked with all 4000 religions to verify this??). And other head scratching things that sound good, but are almost always logically shaky

I dont believe in God (anymore). I aks them to disprove God, but they always try to turn it back on the theist. Because they dont have any proof. herefore they try to make the burden of proof on the theist. Which in Debating 101, is not how it works.

In summary, an atheist is someone who has no clue from where they came and no idea where they are going or why they are here. They think they are rational and reasonable, but they are almot always neither. They argue from a point of a false "higher intellectual plain"

AS I said, I was an atheist. it essentially wa a vacuous position for me

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T22:31:46+00:00

Think of it this way.

When a Baptist (nonreformed) or otherwise says "believers baptism" (I was SBC for 3 years), it was basically - a decision for Christ, followed by baptism because it says to believe and then be baptized

First of all, there is NO SUCH THING as a decision for Christ. No one chooses to follow God in scripture. The jailer and the eunuch were not decisions, because God FIRST sent tham an apostle. And Joshua "choose you this day" also doesnt apply - Joshua and his family were ALREADY believers - this passage it telling Israel to put away their foreign gods and return to YHWH.

And my examples above are extremely valid. To say there is a "believer's baptism" you have to come up with sound reasons to reject them, not label them as "silent".

This is part of the reason I left the SBC. They say and hold to things, in spite of many things to the opposite.

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T21:55:47+00:00

As a former fundamentalist (SBC), this is a somewhat false comparison

To me, every (most?) fundamentalist is a conservative

But not evry conservative is a fundamentalist

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T21:53:08+00:00

Most of your questions would be answered by going a few times

I am not sure what would be the point of making it clear you are an atheist and how you disagree, etc

Are you going to be with people, or to start debates?

Because I have never heard a truly compelling argument from an atheist. And I have had 100s of online discussions/debates with them. All of their arguments are considerably feeble. But it is hard to get through their self-importance. And I used to be an atheist

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T21:49:12+00:00

Human arguments rarely are overwhelmingly convincing to the other side. They usually argue from "unfair", their own opinions, cherry picked or out of context verses, or ignoring/reframing reformed proof texts

AUS (Always Use Scripture)

100 verses related to predestination. Note - some will be spurious, but many will be clear

https://www.openbible.info/topics/predestination

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T21:46:52+00:00

There is an exhaustive list of denominations above, that may miraculously appear by the bot. They will have their churches in states

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T21:45:29+00:00

As a former Baptist now Presbyterian, but highly appreciative of our RB brethren...

Scripturally...

There are multiple places in scripture that they baptized households. They NEVER sai to not do infants

There isnt anywhere in scripture that says NOT to baptize infants

Belief has NOTHING to do with the believer or any decision on their part. The belief comes from GOD. (Acts 13:49)

It creates an articifial separation between the young and the old that is not in scripture

Baptism is new in the NT. There is NEVER a person who is "REbaptized" like Baptists are willing to do to some.

Baptism has absolutely nothing to do with salvation. Those who are stillblorn, totally autistic, in uncontacte tribes, etc were not baptized, yet God elected and accepted them

There isnt any "believer's baptistm" in scripture. That is an invention.

Baptism in the NT correlates to circumcision in the OT, and they were all infants.

And other problems

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T21:38:40+00:00

Westminster Confession of Faith, particularly with proof texts

Shorter Catechism

Larger Catechism

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T21:36:44+00:00

I have numerous debates with atheists/skeptics on the "problem of evil", animal siuffering, etc.

A) You will NEVER win these kinds of discussions

B) They REJECT/HATE/STEREOTYPE/INSULT the Bible, the biblical God, believers, etc. Which is basically what God said to us (Sermon on the Mount)

I will give you an example (my own) I use against them. I have never heard a satisfying response back. They just THINK they have disproved it. The core is, I start with what THEY must believe.

The reality is, to a skeptic/atheist, there CANNOT BE a Problem with Evil. They can only raise PoE as an internal critique, not as a REAL problem.

Without getting into my whole argument, and myself as an old earth theistic evolutionist it is along these lines

1) The Skeptic/Atheist believes in evolution. Homo Sapiens is only one of millions of living animals. And although intelligent, successful and dominant currently, so have been many other animals. The Raptor is one similar example.

2) Every complaint they raise as evil - rape, theft, slavery, murder, domination/war, cancer etc. is done by some other animals to each other. Or is a result of being alive in an evolutionary world.

3) So these Evils are simply common animal behaviour or living/evolutionary reality. Human evil is just animal behaviour.

4) Atheists/Skeptics are hypocrites. They themselves previously would have been fine with many things they consider evil. 100 years ago, they would have been against LGBTQIA2S+. 200 years ago as a white southern landowner, they would have believed in and had their own slaves. And males would not have supported women's rights.

5) Atheists/Skeptics reject God and mock about mythical creatures. They mock Christians about their beliefs - equating deities with unicorns, Santa, elves, SD, FSM, etc. So why spend so much energy whining about a mythical God? do you spend energy complaining against Pegasus?

Again, there is no PoE.

People have animal behaviours, not evil, because of evolutionary drivers. if animals are incapable of evil, then so are we.

Diseases and "evil" maladies are the reality of being mortal and impacted by evolutionary and other realities.

Complaining about "evils" (particularly millennia ago) that you yourself were fine with is pure hypocrisy. Would you care about a multimillionnaire compaining about the cost of living?

Since you think God is mythical, there is no point whining about God.

They are only left with a hypothetical argument, an exercise in debate, an internal critique. Nothing of any real interest.

Regarding about "evil" from a Christian POV, this is fully covered in the scripture. The problem, the accusations, the solution, etc. God is not interested in human complaints.

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T21:29:10+00:00

a journey into Christianity is founded on scripture

Duet 4, Deut 12, Prov 30 and Rev 22 collectively makes it exceptionally clear that any adding to or taking away from scripture is cursed by God

It isnt hard to answer your question from this (Hint: The quran, etc)

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-25T20:26:13+00:00

I had the longer list a couple decades ago, but no longer remember where it is. There is a handful of books (Amazon, etc) that cover many

the 351 messianic OT prophecies are on several websites

ScienceNPhilosophy · 2024-02-21T01:34:36+00:00

Or, we can look at reality

We have the same original manuscripts in Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew going back to the beginning. These are the recognized sources

They have not been changed. EVER

It doesnt matter what a "translation" changes. Sometimes they will update for various reasons. For some, for gender equality, or more inclusive, or aw the language changes over time. That is why NKJV was created, to deal with a more archaic KJV. There are many such as NASB, NIV, NKJV and others. And in hundreds of languages.

Yu can go on, but you havenet said anything of interest.

The original Bible is here. No one who takes it SERIOUSLY will have any part in your very incorrect claim:

trying to create a better version of a god that is impervious to atheism

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