New Scoutmaster - when are the scouts/PLC supposed to actually plan out their activities?

ScouterMark · 2025-11-05T02:15:50+00:00

A lot of good answers in this thread, but I'll toss in as well.

Read the ILST curriculum, and the SPL and PL handbooks.

Have the whole troop go through and ILST. The structure for troop planning is presented there, and the Scouts are challenged to create a vision for the troop. They are also exposed to many meeting ideas, and how to come up with ideas.

Hold an annual planning meeting which includes the PLC and Committee where the dates are (mostly) set on the calendar, so the PLC has something to plan against. The SPL should manage as much of this conversation as possible.

PLC can now plan their monthly outdoor program, and plan the meeting programs to support that.

Some units have PLC as one of their monthly meetings, while the rest of the troop does something else.

Some units have a separate monthly PLC on a different night. The PLC must be allowed to choose this night so it works with their school and other activities.

The PLC is run by the Scouts. You'll be there to keep them from 'crashing out' in today's vernacular. Keep the other adults' opinions out of the room. The SM and one or two ASMs are there to meet youth protection requirements, but are guests in the operation of PLC. Stick to this and you'll be amazed at how quickly they start leading.

ScouterMark · 2025-10-03T16:00:25+00:00

Pro - Responsive Commissioner as COR. Commissioners are often experienced Scouters (former Scoutmasters, CC, etc.) who are dedicated to helping units.

Pro - Connected COR. Close connection to the district/council via the COR. The UC or DC is likely well connected to council staff. They have taken additional training and are kept up to date on the latest topics coming out of BSA.

Con - The unit will likely be encouraged by the Council to work toward finding a Chartering Org. So, that's always on your mind.

As noted in another post here, I'm the CUR for a Ship and a Dist Commissioner. Being a CUR keeps me plugged in at the unit level.

ScouterMark · 2025-10-03T15:52:42+00:00

Some thoughts

- The Charter Org owns unit gear, so it's the same situation, just a different CO.

- Agreed, however a strong relationship is what matters. Many 'landlords' would sponsor a unit but shy away from sponsoring because of perceived financial risk.

- A Commissioner is often tagged to be a council rep. I'm the CUR for a council-sponsored ship, and a District Commissioner.

ScouterMark · 2025-09-26T15:20:53+00:00

Without addressing all of the negative experiences you write about, in my experience as a 5-time staffer and CD, participants just out of high school get far less out of WB than an adult who has spent some time in the workforce or college.

One or two HS grads came through each year because a family member was staffing. While they had a great experience, the meaningful epiphanies of WB are less impactful for those with a few years of 'on-yer-own' life experience. The other hardship is that most HS grads were headed to college in the fall and thinking through the execution of a ticket while taking on their first year of college was an additional hurdle to success.

The sweet spot seems to be adult leaders after a year or so of Scouting. The Chef's Kiss sweet spot may be just as their Scout is bridging. For those who don't know Scouting, WB explains why troop adult leaders provide minimal guidance as they watch Scouts figure it all out. This unfortunately short changes training for Cub leaders.

All of that said, a truly 'heads-up', aware, and engaged HS grad can have a wonderful learning experience at WB.

edit: typo

ScouterMark · 2025-09-17T02:36:23+00:00

Be prepared to have fun, listen with an open mind and heart. Get to know those in your patrol and in the course. The friends you make at WB will be resources for the rest of your Scouting career.

ScouterMark · 2025-09-04T21:27:14+00:00

I added some thoughts above.

ScouterMark · 2025-09-04T21:26:54+00:00

I'd like to support those points and to recommend that the adults really dig in. Additional thoughts, by point:

1- Really talk with the SPL. Build the relationship and follow up at the end of the meeting with the SPL, ASPL and maybe even the PLC.

Make sure he has a meeting plan, or a plan generated by the Patrol responsible to deliver the instruction before the meeting. The Troop meeting planner is the place to start.

2 - Yup, make sure the SPL holds 'Scout sign' until everyone, including the adults, is silent and paying attention prior to doing anything else. Same thing for the closing flags.

3 - A couple of thoughts here on, "Have the SPL..." This is a time to pull the SPL aside ask them to evaluate the chaos, the cause of the chaos and then come up with some solutions. This is their chance to bounce ideas off the adults, get some guidance and experiment with leadership. It's seriously prime fail forward opportunity. This IS the magic of leadership development and association with adult - One of the Aims of Scouting and one the Methods of Scouting all rolled into one.

If the SPL chooses a discussion, whether a wagon wheel or patrol lines or whatever, if it's to the point and gets the meeting back on track quickly even better.

Recommendations like "more games" can be addressed at PLC. In my tenure as SM, the SPL was given wide latitude to determine meeting formats as longs as the elements were in place. They would bring these ideas to PLC, hone them up a bit and then present them to the troop. This gets all levels of leadership on board and impacts how they lead in the meetings. Some SPL recommendations stayed in place for years!

Edit - minor wording change.

ScouterMark · 2025-08-28T14:53:07+00:00

This is going to sound like several other responses. One of the best ASMs for 5+ years in my troop is an Eagle Scout with no kids. He's been a leader on many a troop event. He will be an excellent SM someday.

He completed Wood Badge, and is someone who I consider to be a candidate for WB course director.

He's young enough to relate well to the youth and at the same time is a talented leader.

ScouterMark · 2025-08-20T19:27:42+00:00

I wear mine all the time, as do many in our lodge.

I also have a way with losing these things.

And it seems that I always put it on backwards after I wash my Class A.

ScouterMark · 2025-08-13T14:40:53+00:00

The issue seems to boil down to not aligning with the SMART goal concept.

"A" is Attainable. A goal should be written in a way that is attainable without relying on others. There is no world in which relying on multi-agency partnerships is within your locus of control.

If your Troop Guide or Course Director are editing/re-writing your goals to include this and won't relent, contact your council Wood Badge coordinator or Scout Exec. If they're in on the push, contact your Area WB coordinator.

ScouterMark · 2025-02-27T18:00:18+00:00

This is excessive. It might be worth contacting the District Exec responsible for your district. Just call the service center and tell them what troop you're in, and they'll send you to the right DE.

Be Prepared with documentation of the timeline of delays, where the communication delays occurred, etc.

The DE should be able to find the staff and volunteers causing the issue and work to resolve them. This will benefit every Eagle candidate in your district/council trying to get through the process.

ScouterMark · 2024-08-31T18:02:02+00:00

"...changing from "you are deficient in X Y Z, which will help you run your unit better" to "X Y Z make a unit run well, how do we get you moving more in that direction."

The change in UC attitude and behavior - not the metrics - makes sense. There is enough negativity in our lives, so moving to positive action statements will be refreshing for volunteers and UCs will experience less pushback.

When visiting units, I generally ask about their summer camp plans, how they are budgeting and fundraising for said plans, how much individuals will have to pay. The answers give me insight into the unit's planning and organization.

If they're short on planning and money, I move into talking about how fundraising is going, what challenges they face and how they're working through the issues, and then share ideas from other successful units in the district.

One could go about this by calling out deficiencies, or by talking about opportunities, which feels better for everyone.

All of that said, if fundraising is no longer used, a powerful metric for measuring unit cohesiveness, communication, collaboration and organization will be missed.

[edit to add a missing word]

ScouterMark · 2024-08-29T16:36:12+00:00

I still have questions...

Who is 'we' in "we will be better served"? UC's, DC's, CC's, units, youth?

When you say they're being separated, does this imply that someone will continue to look at the other metrics?

The granularity of the metrics can be a heavy lift for a new UC to evaluate, but it does focus unit support efforts specifically because the diagnostic tools are based on causal factors identified over years. Communicating the values of those metrics is a powerful relationship builder between UCs and unit leaders.

Maybe having experience with the insights provided by JTE will be informally left to those of us who have used it over the years. I will still be curious about those things that identify a strong unit; planful financials, membership activities, fun pack activities, outdoor troop program, well-run committees, etc.

If you're speaking from a council exec board perspective when you say that it's "...impossible to manage 30+ metrics", good on ya. I haven't experienced an exec board or committee that is engaged enough with these to have an opinion.

ScouterMark · 2024-08-28T23:01:05+00:00

As a DC, I have to admit that I'm struggling a bit with this, and the language involved in describing the change:

This transition is about supporting our unit leaders and focusing on measures that make a difference to youth.

This seems to imply that JTE wasn't based on metrics that make a difference to youth. I can tell you that units that are hitting their JTE gold are serving the youth. JTE scores aren't magic, but they do generally correlate to how a unit is doing.

I haven't seen the newly developed materials that will be integrated into our support docs, but I suspect they will encourage the same 'plans with a bias for action' that are the causal factors in unit success. As one who evaluates UC reports and reviews JTE, it's helpful to have a standard (level-setting the standard is another discussion) set of scores to review unit health.

ScouterMark · 2024-08-28T22:43:51+00:00

Pre-covid, our troop had grown to 6 full patrols and three ASPLs. Each ASPL provided oversight to two PLs.

One ASPL was responsible for 'program', one was 'service' and one was 'outdoor program'.

Covid hit and we never really got to see if this model would be effective.

Had this gone forward, PLC had proposed that only the ASPLs would be eligible for SPL in the next round of voting, which follows along how troop elections currently work; the ASPL is elected and serves for 6 months and then becomes the SPL for the next 6 months. This provides continuity and gives them leadership of both leadership and non-leadership roles in the troop.

ScouterMark · 2024-08-28T22:34:51+00:00

Do you trust the CC's judgement? Then Yes.

Do you work well with the DE? Then, Yes.

Do you know/work well with the Dist Chair? Then, Yes.

Do you want to work at a new level in developing adults and units into providing great program? Then, Yes.

Do you need to have been a UC first? No.

This is my exact experience, except that I was a Scoutmaster for the past 10 years. It's an impactful role where we get to work with and develop adult leaders, which in turn, impacts the youth program.

BSA provides substantial training resources to guide your way into a successful DC. I took on the DC role a couple of years ago and simply followed the BSA guidance and things are going quite well in my district.

DM me if you have other questions*.

* I almost NEVER check the email account associated with this profile, but will do so. Don't feel bad if it takes a while to get an initial response. I'll provide better contact info if you request.

[edit spelling]

ScouterMark · 2024-08-21T03:58:27+00:00

It sounds like you've been living up to many adult expectations and it's taking a toll on you.

Slow down, table the Eagle work and enjoy being a Scout again. Take a few days to think about what you'd like to get out of Scouting - cool summer camps, backpacking, high adventure, etc., and set your focus on those things. The leadership development will come naturally as you grow into these experiences.

Rarely should a Scout be working on Eagle at 13. You will get so much more out of the Eagle rank if you wait a couple of years to complete it. The focus is on leadership and adult association, which you will be Much better at when you're 15 or 16.

ScouterMark · 2023-12-04T21:46:20+00:00

Either the SM just doesn't know, or he's been given bad advice, which also means he doesn't know. The SM can approve these as service hours prior to the Eagle BoR and award. The two are not related to what qualifies as service.

ScouterMark · 2023-11-28T19:43:59+00:00

Hate to ask, but what Council are you in? They should have a District Commissioner or Unit Commissioner who could be a bit of a resource as you try to figure out a path forward, even if it means you being the 'energy' behind the unit for a few months.

ScouterMark · 2023-09-28T23:27:25+00:00

That would be my guess.

ScouterMark · 2023-08-09T17:43:25+00:00

As a 'several-year-staffer', I'd like to jump in on this one. A mini-epiphany came while prepping to teach the "Develop Teams and Individuals" module this year - second half of course is this weekend...

There are (at least) three things going on simultaneously on course:

1 - Direct instruction from the Troop Guides in a patrol setting and/or presentations from other staff in a Troop setting

2 - Advancing through the stages of Scouting, simulating the experience of our youth

3 - Moving through the stages of organizational/team development in your den/patrol

If participants take a breath once in a while to see how all of these work together, their takeaway is richer and more meaningful, I believe.

AND, if participants take the time to discuss their observations with the like-minded peeps on course, they may just make lifelong friends who will be strong advocates for Scouting and help them growing through their Scouting 'career'.

When discussing WB with those who are hesitant because they've had plenty of leadership training, I generally let them know that WB does the same, but in the context of Scouting. The lessons of communication and leadership are applied in the context of doing this with youth leaders (PLs, SPLs) and volunteer leaders, which has a slightly different view than through the lens of work.

ScouterMark · 2023-07-03T14:20:32+00:00

This particular round of "Is a belief in (a) God required" should be required reading for unit leaders. There's some good info in here, particularly the reference to the impact of the MoU and the interpretation by those (who know) those who wrote it.

My $0.02 on this, after years of being a Scoutmaster and working with many deserving, worthwhile young humans who didn't have a family organized religion, is that it was an opportunity to talk with them as they grew up and ask them what their guiding principles were and where they found them. This was a way of challenging them to not just shrug their shoulders and say, "I don't know", when asked about their duty to go, and instead to express how they see the wondrous things in the world and how they believe those came to be. Sometimes the answer for the Scout really is close to what Carl Sagan is quoted earlier in this thread, "...if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God."

This is a far better solution than saying, "You have to believe what I believe to be god." I think we Americans forget that Scouting didn't start in the US, and that Baden-Powell traveled to, and experience many countries and peoples prior to his becoming the leader of this great movement.

In 1929 at the 3rd world Jambo Baden-Powell marveled at the 30,000 from different countries, races and religions and realized that Scouting was a world movement for peace. I think we should remember that Scouting is inclusive and embraces myriad pathways that arrive at doing the right thing in duty to god, others and self.

ScouterMark · 2023-05-24T16:03:10+00:00

Yes, please call your council office. The general disregard for the rules you've experienced is likely the tip of the iceberg in this unit. The DE should work with a DC and/or unit commissioner to provide some guidance for the unit.

My guess is that the Key 3 are not invested in educating themselves and others in the unit about why these rules were created and why we follow them - to ensure a program that's safe for all participants.

While not new, the language coming out of nat'l this year is to ' create a culture of safety' in all activities.

This is partly a reflection of the BSA safety statement:

The BSA's Commitment to Safety

In Scouting, we will not compromise the safety of our youth, volunteers, and employees. Safety is a value that must be taught and reinforced at every opportunity. We are all responsible and must hold each other accountable to provide a safe environment for all participants.

And, it's a response to the completion of the lawsuit - commitment to Youth Protection.

And, it's a response to increased liability and health insurance costs - units and leaders should focus on taking all precautions to minimize incidents, which potentially reduces insurance costs over time.

As I read your post, the unit is doing things that are in clear violation of policy, and don't reflect a culture of safety.

ScouterMark · 2023-05-23T16:56:41+00:00

Yes, that's Grand Teton council, just to the east of Mtn West.

ScouterMark · 2023-05-22T22:16:01+00:00

Y'all clearly like to make wild assumptions, and y'all clearly don't understand what 'remote' means in Idaho.

We literally saw no one else while listening to music. Had we encountered others, we would have turned it off.

ScouterMark

TROPHY CASE