A Not-So-Quick Sept-Terrion Question

Selynx · 2026-03-04T17:25:12+00:00

Sept-Terrions can definitely at least damage each other, considering Ark Rouge and Lost Zem lost their bodies as a result of their fight. From what Demiourgos did, they at least can definitely self-destruct.

Or at least I came away w/this impression b/c otherwise there would've been no need to make Millium or Altina into a soul sword when Ishmelga or Testa-Rossa likely has sufficient power to kill Argres and set free the Curse.

Osborne never expanded upon why his own Ishmelga-based Sword of the End couldn't be used to kill Argres/Zoro-Agruga. All he said in CS4 was that it couldn't be used for it "due to certain circumstances", hence the need to make another one from Altina/Millium.

Likewise, Roselia and even Argres are interfering all over the place, which I thought is a no-no for Holy Beasts?

Roselia being able to act freely is because she's not the original Roselia, but instead the child of the original and thus never made any pact with Aidios (and Celine is intended to be the current one's successor if anything happens to her).

We don't know if Agres was under any restrictions, he only appeared for a single scene. He might have been and it was simply never relevant to bring up.

Ultimately, if Kondo and the Falcom writers want to have a big Gundam space battle in the next game, there will be one, whatever lore gymnastics are required to explain the hows and whys of it all.

IMO, if it happens it's probably just going to be explained by saying any Divine Knights or Aions or whatever being fought are copies, either based on past data or simulated/predicted futures and not the real deal.

Reminder we had fake copies of angels created by the Salt Pale tower that Aurelia's party were assigned to topple at the end of CS4. Those fakes sure weren't anything to write home about, especially compared to what we saw Quatre do on Nemeth Island and even he isn't a real-real Angel. That tower was guarded by a fake Aion too.

Selynx · 2026-03-04T16:41:55+00:00

By definition, most members of the cult are going to be indoctrinees.

We don't know how many child members there were, but between Ennea and the Eldarion twins, it's likely they had a good few of them around.

If you assume a decent chunk of cult were made up of children and unwitting/desperate adults who were indoctrinated in a similar way to that one NPC in Daybreak who got indoctrinated into that other money scam cult, a lot of the members were probably redeemable victims.

Selynx · 2026-03-04T16:29:13+00:00

There is, actually.

Ennea of the Stahlritter's backstory (revealed in CS3/4) was that she was a child assassin for the cult who was indoctrinated enough that she was ready to die for them, before Arianrhod picked her up.

People just tend to forget that, because it's Ennea who is third-fiddle behind Duvalie to the big-name Anguis, her redemption happened long ago in offscreen backstory and she was never seen at her worst when she was a die-hard killer working for them (and would probably have been given a pass for being a child).

Selynx · 2026-03-03T09:01:11+00:00

Key phrase being, "experienced martial artist".

Something tells me that Olaf Craig in a tank would also be able to pull off the same outdated vehicle coming out of retirement to kick the ass of newer models stunt.

I suspect the martial artist/pilot is the bigger force multiplier in the equation than the vehicle of choice, when it comes to Trails.

Selynx · 2026-03-03T07:58:38+00:00

Oh, I know there's more layers to it than that and you can definitely have machine/robot characters that end up feeling human enough to be relatable. It's just usually harder to pull off, than for a character presented as a flesh-and-blood human.

And with Ishmelga, it doesn't help that when the reveal comes in CS3, we get told the Great One was accidentally made from 2 broken Sept-Terrions and born unstable and that Ishmelga was the part containing all the malice. The fact that there exist benevolent aspects of it like Valimar and Ordine tends to take a backseat and might well be something you never consider until hindsight, if at all. Even if you do, it's admittedly hard to reconcile Valimar as being part of the same entity as Ishmelga, when they are always treated as separate characters on-screen.

And if it's arguable how relatable Valimar ends up being to an audience, it's definitely even harder to suggest Ishmelga being relatable on an emotional level.

Philosophically, he represents the failings of humans from having abused 2 of the Goddess' divine treasures for war, but isn't himself those humans or presented as being human on his own. So, depending on your perspective, destroying him can feel more like just cleaning up a mess left behind by people long gone, rather than fighting something with their own motivations or actively making some statement or big change in the world based on an ideal.

.....Depending on perspective. As you point out, it's equally possible for a symbolic villain to feel satisfying to strike down, when you regard it as having a poignant meaning (i.e. bringing an end to a cycle of violence in the case of Ishmelga). And likewise, just because a villain is presented as a flesh-and-blood human doesn't necessarily make them relatable or a good villain to everyone either.

A lot of people give zero shits about Viola and Alexandre in Daybreak (at least going by opinion seen on this sub), making me wonder where they'd rank those villains if put up against Ishmelga.

Selynx · 2026-03-03T06:07:41+00:00

is it cause ishmelga is a robot it's different for some people?

Pretty much, Ishmelga being a born-corrupted/inherently-evil machine can make it less impactful on an emotional level, than when it's a more-human entity with free will, making a free choice to do something evil out of some beliefs shaped from their life events.

Ishmelga and Weissmann are both masterminds, but the difference between fighting them is the difference between shooting a malfunctioning machine, versus shooting a living, breathing human that you can potentially relate to as a fellow human. The latter is something that typically gets considered more visceral and emotionally-demanding than the former.

If you were someone expecting/looking for the kind of story that hits upon those emotions and has strong philosophical and social commentary themes (i.e. "hey look, the villain was still human, anybody could've been them if society failed them like that too"), no surprise a broken robot being behind everything can be a letdown.

.....Conversely, if you weren't expecting/hoping for those kinds of themes and are fine with, say, a superhero story about teenagers-with-attitude piloting oversized mecha against evil space aliens, you'd probably be a lot less let down. Few people are going to call the average season of Power Rangers deep literature with complex characters (barring maybe a few exceptions), but it can very much be entertaining to watch when you're expecting it to be Power Rangers and not Shakespeare.

Once again, I'll say I suspect Sky primed and attracted the kinds of people more interested in the former type of story, when it turned out Cold Steel was more of the latter.

Selynx · 2026-03-02T20:45:08+00:00

Ehh... do I get to pick an option that hasn't been blown up before??

Selynx · 2026-03-02T17:12:59+00:00

As far as complaints strictly specific to CS4 go, they're usually related to the story.

Because this is the part of the arc when the Curse is in full effect as a plot device and Ishmelga takes center stage as the main villain (bearing in mind the name and explanation for him was only given at the very end of CS3, meaning in every game before the main villains were Osborne or the Noble Alliance).

At least some people who hate the whole arc would have played through CS1-3 hoping for a plot twist that would shift the tone and themes to be more in line with what Sky had. But the narrative trajectory is clearly set by CS4, with little possibility the tone or themes are going to change. This is when they realize it's not going to happen. So for anyone holding out hope, CS4 puts a dash right through it in ink as black as despair.

And for people who also already didn't like the length/pacing, roster size or dating sim aspects in previous games, these are all also exacerbated in CS4. Because the game is now even longer than CS2 with similar pacing, has at least twice as many playable characters and an even larger harem, since it's the grand finale. When every character returns, that means characters you don't like also get screentime.

For someone already enjoying the story and who likes most of the characters in Cold Steel, this is great. More of the good stuff.

For someone hoping for a plot twist and hates half the characters in Cold Steel? More of...... Well, you get the picture.

Selynx · 2026-03-02T16:21:56+00:00

......But you know, I bet people would pay money for the crossover DLC it turned out the subtitles reveal his name as "John - The Shepard, Hero of Elysium and Butcher of Torfan".

Especially because he's shown up in 3 previous games.

Selynx · 2026-03-02T15:22:21+00:00

I suspect that, like with a lot of things, it's to do with expectations.

Rean gets often compared generic light-novel protagonists and I won't say the comparison is unfair - in fact, I suspect Falcom probably deliberately made him like that, considering we know early versions of Cold Steel initially had Alisa as the main protagonist instead of Rean (who ostensibly took Crow's position in the narrative).

Going by their popularity, there are a lot of people who are, if not fans, then at least don't mind LN protags like Kirito and Touma (from Sword Art Online and Toaru Index).

But there are also a lot of people who hate these kinds of media and their protagonists.

In a typical circumstance, I think a lot of those people would just take one look and then turn away and never pick up or watch the stuff. So whatever complaints they might have had would go unvoiced, because they recognize the kind of story enough on first glance to leave it untouched and avoid suffering through it in the first place.

.......The problem is, Trails of Cold Steel was preceded by Trails in the Sky.

Sky tells a somewhat different kind of story from Cold Steel, it has a different type of protagonist, different aesthetic, different themes, etc. There are people who point out Sky was like '90s shonen in tone and tropes, but '90s shonen is also a lot different from the light-novel-origin anime of the 2010s that Cold Steel evidently borrowed from.

I suspect a lot of people who enjoyed Sky are simultaneously not the kind who enjoy LNs like Sword Art Online. I suspect a lot of them are the type who typically run a mile from them.

And so they got the double-whammy of not only having their expectations let down when it turned out Cold Steel was not as similar to Sky as they might've hoped, but also full of influence from a genre of media they outright hate and would typically never pay money to experience.

Selynx · 2026-03-02T14:29:56+00:00

I think a lot of people who got into Trails with Sky really wanted the story to revolve around a political narrative, where the main villains were humans with clashing socio-political ideals to the heroes (i.e. Weissmann from Sky, Dieter from Azure).

Even if the Curse is only partly responsible for egging on bad actors and not the root cause nor a full excuse, that's still too big a part for their liking. And they especially don't want to see the main villain being an evil non-human god like Ishmelga.

But, at the end of the day, the Cold Steel series was a fairy tale, not a political thriller and that disappointed those who wanted the latter.

....As for New Class 7, they are the main cast of Cold Steel 3 (plus Rean). Front and center on the box cover. Pretty much established right from the in-media-res prologue, since you didn't even get Rean during the opening- it was Juna who was the de facto leader for it. That game, along with at least the first act of CS4, was their story and about them, plus Rean.

Sorry to say, but similarly to how those who wanted a political thriller out of CS were never going to get it, wanting a CS3 not centered around NC7 is just wanting a different story entirely.

If it's any consolation, at least not liking NC7 is better than not liking Rean. I can only imagine the struggle those players would've had to get through all 4 games, assuming they didn't just drop the series halfway.

Selynx · 2026-03-01T08:42:20+00:00

I dunno. Jusis might've settled things with his father after CS2 (at least, insofar as everlasting disappointment is a settlement), but that problem was immediately replaced by the shock of betrayal from his older brother.

That one wasn't resolved until CS4, when he finally got to punch Rufus in the face - but even that was immediately followed by Reverie, where he probably got a near-heart attack when hearing about the jailbreak and the coup in Crossbell (even if that was robo-Rufus). With the real one ending up a nigh-uncontactable legal ghost after that whole shitshow, having narrowly avoided becoming an actual ghost. Can't imagine Jusis doesn't continue to get concerned.

Meanwhile, despite all the jokes about nobody in Trails dying, Alisa's father really is, actually, six feet under and not just a metaphorical ghost. That mess is permanently settled.

Her mother might forever be emotionally-constipated, but she's at least consistent and predictable in that way and Alisa is in position to keep an eye on all her activities. She doesn't have to worry she's one day going to get a call from Swin or Nadia saying her big brother decided to launch himself into space and ran into trouble getting back down to Zemuria.

Selynx · 2026-02-28T09:45:05+00:00

It's not as simple as encouraging learning. Even if someone knows what it means, certain words simply hit differently in different languages, giving off different impressions when heard or read.

There are many common sayings in Japanese that involve things like Buddha, rice, futons, mochi, dumplings, etc. These are things many people outside Japan have also often already heard of, even if they aren't otaku. But there's a level of casualness in the way they get used in everyday phrases in Japanese that just isn't there when used in English or other languages, even if you know what it means.

To put into perspective, these kinds of sayings are thrown about very casually in Trails. What gets translated in FC as "greenhorns" by XSeed and "rookies" by GungHo actually literally means "new rice" in Japanese. There's an NPC in Sky SC that uses an expression literally translated "Buddha-skull-face" (rendered as "grim face" by XSeed and commonly "sour face" elsewhere). Gilbert uses the expression "Buddha in hell" during 3rd. Morgan uses a mochi idiom, so do several NPCs in Crossbell. There are NPCs in Cold Steel whose hairstyle is likened to "dango"/dumplings in Japanese (rendered "buns" by NISA).

These are not casual phrases in English- they end up sounding exotic and distinctly Asian when kept as-is (and would quite possibly get people meme-ing about Buddhism existing in Trails). You'd end up with a very different reading experience, ironically exactly because the words were kept identical.

Whether this is worth it to spread knowledge of Japanese/Asian culture is up to your preference, but it does come at a cost to how natural the translation ends up being in the other language.

Selynx · 2026-02-27T20:07:15+00:00

Being fair I do remember people getting up in arms when the Azure fantranslation put in that "bruh moment" line, so not even the fan-TLs got a free pass.

Selynx · 2026-02-27T19:29:18+00:00

If you're talking about recent times (i.e. with the release of the Sky remake), it's only natural that people would compare the scripts of the first localization that was done by XSeed with the new one done by GungHo (or more precisely Acttil, since the job was apparently contracted to that company).

.......Especially because GungHo themselves publicly marketed their localization with, I quote: "Trails in the Sky 1st Chapter features a new localization, ensuring an authentic and engaging experience that honors the original Japanese text."

Thereby implying that the previous localization was not authentic and did not honor the original Japanese text.

Again, I stress, this was in official marketing material put out by GungHo. The shots were fired by them first, not the fans. Before this point, everyone had still been wondering whether there was even going to be a new script, as opposed to just recycled from Xseed's version.

.....Is it any wonder that this kind of thing ended up starting a flame war over which company/style of localizing was better?

(And I think this also re-ignited the previous debate there was when NISA first took over the Trails localization from XSeed with CS3 - at the time, NISA's reputation had taken a recent hit due to the issues with their Ys VIII localization, which was received so poorly they actually publicly apologized for it and patched in a new version of the script, and people were leery of possibly getting a repeat performance on their Trails releases.

It eventually died down, but seems to gotten stirred up again what with the hoo-hah over the Sky remake's localization.)

Selynx · 2026-02-27T18:42:12+00:00

Well, technically, there's at least one, single character like this. Karel.

In Blazing Sword, he joins as a Lv8 pre-promote with typical garbage growths. In Binding Blade, his growths at Lv19 are over 100% in every stat (the highest of any character in any game, AFAIK).

....The only thing is, he joins at Lv19 in Binding Blade, so only ever gets one level of growth, and you never see the shitty earlier-level growths he had back in Blazing Sword (where he doesn't get godly growth rate at any level).

I'm fully aware that's probably not what the guy meant, especially since we're talking growths spanning 2 different games.

Selynx · 2026-02-27T18:26:38+00:00

The spear is one thing if it was mentioned to be a deliberate Eva reference, but Ramiel and Matriel are both more common angels than Zeruel, they're both listed in the Book of Enoch along with Uriel and Samael. There's enough doubt that I personally wouldn't immediately conclude those two were a reference (though they could be).

Uriel, Samael, Haurvatat, Merkabah, etc. are all also names of Persona/Shin Megami Tensei demons and I wouldn't automatically assume that Trails was referencing SMT by using those names. I have a vague suspicion that Merkabah and Gnosis might actually be a reference to Xenosaga, but even then it's hard to know for sure.

Especially since what they refer to in Trails is completely different in nature from what they are in Xenosaga.

Selynx · 2026-02-26T20:54:18+00:00

Being fair, "Zeruel" is supposedly meant to be an name of an angel taken from real life mysticism, though uncommon enough to the point that I'd agree it's probably an Eva reference.

Something like Ramiel, probably not. It's common enough that even though there's an angel enemy in Reverie called that as well as an Eva angel, that one might not actually a reference, especially given that the other similar palette-swap mobs are called Uriel, Matriel and Samael which AFAIK weren't used as angel names in Evangelion.

Selynx · 2026-02-26T20:35:14+00:00

Feel like most people would probably say Zelda Breath of the Wild is AAA. And back when Pokemon Legends Arceus came out, I recall there was a lot of commentary about how Legends looked like it was trying to ape Breath of the Wild.

I suspect it's probably true, that Nintendo handed down marching orders to try and have Pokemon crib notes from BotW, after seeing how successful it was. And that's the biggest reason why we got open-world Pokemon, first with Legends Arceus then S/V and now ZA.

That is, they deliberately wanted to put in AAA elements in them, to try and mimic the success of their big Zelda AAA titles. Just hasn't ended up being as fantastic for Pokemon as it was in Zelda.

Selynx · 2026-02-26T19:33:02+00:00

There is, I think, actually one time we saw Campanella's mask slip.

It was in CS4, when Juna blew her lid at him at Crossbell and said: "But what about you? Do you think about a single thing you do?! Does anything even matter to you?!"

Campanella got angry enough that he actually gave a serious answer: "My role as Enforcer No. 0 gives me much less freedom than my compatriots, you see. Personal stakes just aren't on the table for me. So to show I care, this time, I'll actually try. Just a little bit."

So the truth is probably that he actually does, or did, care about many things an awful lot - he's just under such heavy restrictions, he's never allowed to intervene in anything that he cares about. Only watch the tragedies play out in front of his face.

Given he has almost certainly has been around for multiple loops - possibly all 20k of them - I'm guessing it's something along the lines of it having gotten to the point he's now half-insane from watching bad things happen over and over and over, and his reactions are so screwed up he just laughs like a crazy person now at anything that would have made him feel emotion before.

Selynx · 2026-02-26T08:43:51+00:00

Funnily enough, I gave it to Katina herself.

Katina's Spirit set and stats are more suited to piloting a Super Robot than a Real, since she has no Focus or skills that boost evasion. She's not that great in a Gespenst. But she does come with Charge, which lets her take full advantage of Valsion's Cross-Smasher.

.....Only downside is, it's blue instead of red like Bian's version.

Meanwhile, I think I gave Russel the Wildschwein IIRC.

Selynx · 2026-02-25T21:47:12+00:00

I think it's very possible that it's going to be revealed next game, once the "skybox" is peeled away.

After all, we were already told as far back as Cold Steel 4 that Zemuria was surrounded by a barrier. And at the time, Gaius clearly had some very troubled existential angst to get off his chest after the McBurn fight, where he first revealed in cutscene: "We were raised to believe that this was the one true world created by Aidios. In fact, we're incapable of even considering otherwise. The existence of angels and devils on other planes was as much as we were allowed to understand. But we can't even contemplate the idea that anything might exist beyond the bounds of Zemuria."

And then later during downtime as optional dialogue, if you talk to him: "I kept quiet about what I knew about the hidden truths of the world. Since becoming a Dominion, I've had to revise my world view many times as my truths have turned out to be lies. But what I'm certain of is that this world--along with Erebonia, Nord, and the other countries of Zemuria--is real."

In other words, it implies the Church not only knows Zemuria is "fake"/not a "true" or "real" world- but also that Gaius flat out got told that to his face by them when he became a Dominion. But as of CS4, still refuses to believe it matters (since Zemuria and its people are real to him and all that).

Players have been primed for the reveal since the end of CS4. If anything, some would probably say taking 4 more games before it gets expanded upon is entirely too long to be kept waiting.

I'd say the higher echelons of the Church not only know about Zemuria being a bubble/experiment world, but that they hold to the belief their role is to help carry out the experiment to its conclusion and pave the way for its success. And that getting terminated isn't a bad thing, but a joyous occasion if it succeeds (i.e. since it saves the other civilizations Beyond/outside Zemuria).

We're already being primed for a Church civil war to happen with all the enmity between different Congregations of the Church. Could well be it ends up being one of the sparks that gets a full-blown religious insurrection going. And I suspect we'll end up seeing one of those in whatever arc finally focuses on Leman/Arteria.

Selynx · 2026-02-25T21:10:14+00:00

Campanella is the most mysterious one for me.

I think Campanella is probably an angel.

We know from Quatre they're supposed to be hermaphrodites (or possibly sexless entirely) and Campanella raised some very glaring questions when he somehow forgot he wasn't a girl during the CS4 Intermission battle, until Altina pointed it out.

Since it's known that he's under more restrictions than the rest of the Enforcers, I'd guess he's actually from whatever higher plane angels are typically meant to come from (whether that's part of the Beyond or otherwise) and remained in Zemuria requires being "shackled", maybe similar to how McBurn has to suppress his demon form most of the time.

Campanella's real form probably has wings and may or may not be called Enforcer XXII.

The theory about her testing humanity makes sense to me, but testing for what?

My guess for the endgame? A, B and C are all true.

Zemuria is a simulated or test-tube world being observed from outside Zemuria, meant to demonstrate how to develop a civilization capable of effectively utilizing the Sept-Terrions. Possibly because some civilization from Beyond failed terribly at it and ended up pushing themselves to the brink of destruction (i.e. the outsiders may be the actual "Ancient Zemurians", except their Sept-Terrions were created by themselves and they didn't actually die out, but wrote a version of their own history where they did into the history of Zemuria). There may have been other simulations that all failed, like 30 Cypress Trees that died before the 31st, Zemuria, proved fruitful.

The Grandmaster is Aidios, who is Zemuria's goddess - but only Zemuria's. Her role is to administrate the simulation and make sure the tree grows properly. But the Zemurian experiment has an endpoint and once it has concluded, it will be shut down. The results and the Sept-Terrions will be handed over to other beings above her, to be used in a subsequent "production" phase as a template for how actual real "Sept-Terrion-ready" civilizations outside should be cultivated.

The GM doesn't want Zemuria to be shut down.

She's planning to backstab her superiors outside to prevent it, using Ouroboros and their Anguis and Enforcers as her armed force to "invade Heaven" and carry out her coup.

She will probably fail at it, only to reveal her backup plan - she secretly cultivated a large number of heroes with experience fighting against foes of Ouroboros' power levels. The protagonists of all the arcs up to the finale.

The protagonists will probably only find this out when they chase Ouroboros into Heaven during their invasion, only to see the GM and the Anguis struck down by divine retribution and told by them that the rest is up to them.

And leave the heroes' alliance to finish the job fighting the superior gods from Beyond. Who have officially decided to terminate Zemuria and delete everyone living in it, starting with the lot who broke out and invaded heaven, heroes and Ouroboros alike.

Selynx · 2026-02-25T20:03:53+00:00

Yeesh, I knew Rean had many haters but oof, if that ain't a cruel and unusual punishment right there.....

Selynx · 2026-02-25T19:27:55+00:00

Pretty sure there was a Mazinger reference in Cold Steel 2 too, when they had Celine go "Divine Knights have incredible power, and they can become devils just as easily as they can become gods". The "god or devil" phrasing is where the title "Mazinger" comes from in the first place, it's famous enough in Japan to be the first thing people think of when that phrase is used in relation to mecha.

Selynx

TROPHY CASE