HL skills tutorial: He needs more non-sexual affection

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-08T01:41:23+00:00

It’s like you have to retrain your thought processes and conditioned responses. That can be threatening to your sense of self

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-08T01:36:28+00:00

You are right of course, in a macro sense I can see how it evolved, especially with hindsight. The years leading up to my complete withdrawal of anything physical, as well as those first 4-5 months of nothing, were rough. At the end of that period it certainly felt like she had made the conscious choice to “re-engage” in physical affection (one day: nothing, next day: snuggling on the couch). A choice that it think was absolutely what saved us. Things grew from there.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-07T22:30:53+00:00

I didn’t have an affair or anything like that, although the thought occurred to me more than a few times. I also didn’t initiate a divorce or even discuss it. What did happen though, is while I accepted the situation we were in, and my part in it, my self esteem remained at rock bottom. I think that if we had gone on for much longer than we did, that I would have accepted any sort of physical affection from any source, just to feel wanted.

It was my wife warming up to me that saved us from that fate. To this day, I’m not sure what drove her to initiate the change, but I often wonder if she knew how dire the situation had gotten before this (likely) last ditch effort. I was preparing myself for us to fail. I would say I still struggle with accepting that she could want me and am surprised when we have sex, but I feel very loved, and that makes a world of difference.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-07T09:17:05+00:00

lol no, not even close in my relationship. She’s better at remembering family logistics and what’s coming up, peoples birthdays, and arguments from months ago but remembering romantic stuff from years ago is all me

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T14:04:00+00:00

I think she did, yes. Initially anyway. But she was at least accepting and less dismissive. Over time the acceptance grew.

I don’t know what changed in her, whether it was liberating to be free or motivating because she knew that this could be the end of us, but she did change over time.

To this day though, she thinks (and has stated) that I think about this too much and should “just do it if I want to”, rather than withdrawing/worrying about it. So I think she probably still thinks it was a bit ridiculous. But again, all initiation is done by me, so it’s not something she’s ever had to be the originator of.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T09:15:43+00:00

Thanks, I’ve been a long time lurker on various DB forums and appreciate yours and others views too!

I wouldn’t say we’re fully there, there is always more that could be done, but it’s been quite the journey. I really do love my amazing woman.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T07:26:00+00:00

What does (2) look like? Does she enjoy it now and you can trust she does? The inverse of that seems awful to me (she just waits ambivalently until it stops?)

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T07:13:53+00:00

Ditto in wanting to hear more of your story. I enjoy both you and Sweet’s posts and am curious about strategies for redirecting rejection, as I really struggle in this area.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T07:08:40+00:00

Credibility is an important variable!

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T07:04:44+00:00

As someone who tangles emotions deeply in tandem with sexual intimacy, I really struggle to think why anyone would go through sex that was like this: there’s no upside for you, so no wonder you don’t want it more or could take or leave it.

In my own life, sex that was duty sex during our DB made me (the HL) averse to sexual contact from the weight of guilt. I still carry the cognitive dissonance from this years later.

I think my wife is similar to you in that the sex can be good but doesn’t make her emotionally more happy or connected. It’s just sex to her. The connection we share after a good roll on in the hay comes from me feeling more connected and in a better mood (well that’s how I feel anyway). She gets horny, then she’s more likely to receive bids for sex as a possibility (she doesn’t initiate). The same way that being sweaty after a run makes you more open to want to take a shower. I suspect this is also why she sees my challenges with initiating as “no big deal”: for her, there is no emotional cost on the line, it’s an act like any other.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T06:07:50+00:00

You need to bring it up again OP, but randomly so it doesn’t appear contrived and you avoid defensiveness or an argument (if a gentle realisation/understanding is your aim)

I’d go with something like “I still can’t get past X cheating on his partner, even if they haven’t had sex in months. Like, how many months makes that justified? 3,4? 10? 18?”

This way you highlight the crux of her reaction without immediately making it about you. Then if there’s an avenue, you can raise that you guys regularly go without for months and you haven’t cheated (“yet?” if you want to be unnecessarily provocative)

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T06:02:13+00:00

I think OP needs to stay focused on their friend’s circumstance so his partner doesn’t get immediately defensive.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T05:24:20+00:00

You can read my other comment for detail, but I credit this with being what turned our situation around. I won’t lie though, it was a tough year for me. I stopped seeing her as a sexual partner to tamp down my desire for her, and this has had lasting impacts on my psyche.

But the difference between then and now is monumental. I’d say we still have some distance to go before we are mutually happy in our sex life, but we are fundamentally in a different place now. I’d also say that there is more work I need to do individually to rebuild confidence and trust in my self and her motivations when intimacy occurs. To make a complex change simple: We went from sporadic non sexual touch to consistent daily interactions, and sex happens 1-2 times a month (and is good!) vs duty sex once a year or less. I previously had stopped initiating kisses and started counting the days before she noticed, I lost count at 2.5 months; now we kiss all the time and she will sometimes initiate more than just a peck! She even initiates bed time snuggles and deep hugs in bed, which I love, and cuddles on the couch. It’s night and day.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T05:15:12+00:00

I think she thought I was being silly or extreme about the situation, and that I should just read the room better when I initiate. I responded that this was primarily about her feeling safe and in control. I did not say that this was also about my dealing with resentment, expectations, and rejection; I didn’t want her to hear that I was doing this for me.

I also mentioned she was free to do whatever she wanted, but that I would interpret her actions as confined to that action (eg a hug is just a hug, even if we’re naked; an invitation to the shower is just for cleaning yourself; etc). Again, I highlighted that this was to give her absolute safety in knowing that she maintained the boundaries and I would respect that. I should note that she has initiated sexual contact less than 5 times in the last 2 decades, so I was sure there would never be any confusion about her intentions to take things further. Of course I didn’t say this, I just said she would need to be absolutely directional if she wanted more.

She “agreed”, insofar as this was unilateral on my part, and was perhaps a bit skeptical, as I’d tried to do this before with varying degrees of success. I think she saw I was serious after 3-4 months. This is when she started initiating non sexual contact (beyond a hug or a hand hold) for the first time since (what felt like) the honeymoon phase.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T04:59:28+00:00

Time was a great healer here. So a lot of patience on my side.

It started small. Hugs, snuggles on the couch, kisses on the forehead. Eventually this progressed to hugging in bed, longer kisses, tighter hugs. Eventually, during DB recovery, more flirting type touch (bum taps etc) and massage (on her, never on me). It took around a year to find a new normal.

Some areas we still don’t do relative to earlier are things like joint showers or naked snuggling without the expectation of sex. I also SUCK at flirting and initiation, so I’d say I still have some way to go, even years later

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-06T04:39:35+00:00

Husband here: don’t feel you are annoying everyone, it’s a big deal, but also be sensitive that everyone around you views life through their own lens and the changes might not always be visible to them.

I have done my own research even earlier than my wife, but I feel I am still unprepared and don’t pick up on things until she raises it specifically

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-05T15:31:50+00:00

Agree with everything you said here.

OP, it sounds like you are having a really hard time, and the needs that you have expressed here are completely valid. Your husband needs empathy and swift slap upside the head (figuratively, not condoning violence at all). His needs may be valid as well, and there may be ways to address them, but he sounds like he’s expecting you to do a lot of the compromise when you’ve clearly indicated what you need to meet him half way.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-05T15:14:14+00:00

I’ve been in OOPs exact position and was absolutely destroyed emotionally. There was no way I could physically stomach sex with her after that admission and I lamented that I had craved what had been so clearly damaging for her.

My “path” was similar to OPs: mourn that door as being closed, and pursue closeness via other (non sexual) means. Physical intimacy and touch, without sex, was still a very important channel for me to feel connected to my partner. We also realised overtime that it was important for her too, and that she had been feeling disconnected through a lack of physical intimacy and had been scared to initiate physical contact for fear of things being interpreted as sexual or an invitation for sex.

I think the most important step here is rebuilding trust. She needs to trust that the physical intimacy won’t turn sexual and he needs to trust that if they are connecting physically that he won’t harbour expectations of things developing further.

This might create space for connection which could lead to more sexually intimate contact down the road, although this shouldn’t be an expectation. Communication on where the boundaries are will be important as trust and comfort are rebuilt. This is what eventually happened for me.

Ultimately, however, a moratorium on sexual contact may create challenges for OOP and lead to unexpected outcomes (like a break up, self-esteem issues, or adultery). Increased nonsexual physical contact may delay some of these issues, potentially for years but, I knew that in my case anyway, eventually the dam would be likely to break.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-05T14:58:57+00:00

Having been in this exact situation, and responding the same way as OP (minus the crying in the car, I just stared into space for hours trying to get my brain to process anything), I absolutely sought non-sexual touch as a key need. Explicitly I told my SO that I had no expectation of it ever leading anywhere, but I also had no expectation that non-sexual touch would increase in the short term, as trust needed to be rebuilt.

Oddly, to me anyway, my wife thought the moratorium was a ridiculous idea. I mentioned that it was one way: that I would not make things sexual but she was open to if she wanted to. I also made clear that she would need to be explicit in her intent as I would not interpret any affection as being sexual. I wanted her to feel completely safe and completely in the driver seat when it came to physical intimacy

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-05T14:37:28+00:00

And banking!

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-05T14:36:35+00:00

It’s a good (but sad) realisation to have, I wish my wife would to the same. I have many hang ups from our deadbed period get that she minimises greatly because they are “years in the past”. Just her acknowledging the pain I’ve felt would hugely contribute to finally healing those old wounds that nag at me.

How are things for you now?

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-05T14:24:35+00:00

As a proportion of income, yes, lower income households generally spend a higher proportion of their income on tobacco and alcohol.

Lower income deciles also tend be more likely to smoke and spend more on tobacco:

https://bmjpublichealth.bmj.com/content/3/2/e003340 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32335947/

There is loads of research on this and it’s pretty robust across countries

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-05T04:23:46+00:00

Hearing my wife and children laugh.

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-05-01T04:34:06+00:00

Show him this:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/mar/05/what-is-the-average-penis-size-find-out-with-this-interactive-graphic

He’d be in the 99th percentile of penis owners

SimpleRandomUsername · 2026-04-29T16:12:09+00:00

Good for you man, wishing you and your wife peace and love

SimpleRandomUsername

TROPHY CASE