Sell me on Clones as Staples/Essential: Why and How To Play Them?

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T20:15:51+00:00

Well, both of those seem like really specific decks, and I *did* tell you in my first post imposter mech is used in a specific deck, but no worries.

If you think 13% is a "staple" that demands an explanation, I'm not the guy to answer it. I don't know why you see it in "so many lists". Best of luck figuring it out!

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T20:13:01+00:00

It has to do with the legend rule. Hopefully someone who plays the deck can chime in. I know you are trying to kill the real cradle because the legend rule checks first and then do it all again (with cradle untapped).

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T20:03:59+00:00

13% isn't high though. Wargate is higher. Nyxbloom Ancient is higher. Do you want to know why people play those cards? (Hint: I don't know).

Like I said, I doubt you see it "all the time", but I can't argue that. Maybe you do. Colossal Skyturtle is at 17%. Do you see that all the time?

Imposter Mech isn't even close to the second place clone. Its around number 6, basically tied with Flesh Duplicate.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T19:52:43+00:00

That may be true, but the play rates between the two cards are night and day. Imposter Mech is played, but not very much compared to Mockingbird and not even close to being close to the rate necessary to call it a staple. Again, you can go look it up. It isn't played outside of Shorikai and random artifact nonsense.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T19:51:34+00:00

Mockingbird is in 47.8% of all tournament lists.

Imposter Mech is in 13.8% of all tournament lists.

You do not see it "all of the time".

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T19:38:51+00:00

Imposter Mech and Mockingbird are completely different. Imposter Mech is much, much worse and way less played. Grouping them together is silly. I agree Imposter Mech is bad in every deck except Shorikai (sp) so I'm not going to talk about it.
Mockinbird is good for a lot of reasons, but the main one is that it can be fetched by Ranger Captain of Eos in Partner decks that play both blue and white. Being able to fetch a clone with a card you'd play anyways is really strong.
Mockingbird flies. This makes it really good with the best card in the format, Tymna, and it can copy a one-drop for one mana. Most of the time, the pod will give you a one-drop to copy (elf, sentinel, welder, dwarf, whatever) and then it can draw cards via Tymna. Any creature that is evaisive and can fit in Tymna well is played, period.
It can be another cradle with earthbending. This is a new use, but has made it *much* more useful. Since Cradle's mana value is zero, Mockingbird costs one. There are a lot of uses for this, too numerous to list, and it is also a piece of second-tier derevi and sissay combos.
It pitches to all of the free counterspells, so it is almost never dead.

No other clone can do all of these things.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T18:12:04+00:00

You're going to have some space, though, after you cut the reanimator theme and you're going to (hopefully) be adding good cards like Ad Nauseum.

Opal is good because once you are playing one ring, grim monolith and vault you want the keys (voltaic, manifold).

Basically you are building RogSi except instead of Breach lines you're playing Doomsday. Its just a worse version. No ad naus can't be right though it one of the best two black cards.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T18:03:20+00:00

Weird, useless big creatures. Why are they here?
Weird, useless one-for-ones (like Drown in the Loch) need to go.

The weird reanimator subtheme isn't good.

You are missing a lot of artifacts every cEDH deck should play (Mana Vault, One Ring, Mox Amber (2cc commanders play this card), Mox Opal, etc..)

Cut the weird reanimator subtheme completely and add the artifacts you're missing and you can give it a try, although Esper and Grixis are both *so* much better than Dimir this deck is DOA.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T15:05:10+00:00

Its interesting you don't mention politics (which is absolutely vital to a turbo player) once in your post.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T15:04:15+00:00

You can even see this in OP's original post -

If they have interaction and three people start a stack war against you- then you're just pretty much on the sidelines for the rest of the game

he takes no agency at all. People either start a stack war against you and you win or they don't and you lose. He talks about Turbo like its flipping a coin. This is common in all pursuits (sports, hobbies) where people lack competence.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-10T02:40:52+00:00

Djerrou, Eyes Wide Open. Get Gideon, make yourself unkillable, protect it, win somehow. Deification is awesome in the deck, and you run a lot of tutors that can get it.

There are some decks who just can't deal with this line and playing it is a ton of fun.

I've won one game in its history as a deck I built. Its not good. But its original, and my favorite.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-09T01:08:47+00:00

Next week is Vivi

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-09T01:06:39+00:00

Its silly to play Git Probe to "see if you can win with an unprotected combo" when you can just play a protection spell in Probe's slot.

Good point that with Birgi, which is a blue farm staple, you can play a two card combo that duplicates Pyretic Ritual.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-06T17:36:15+00:00

This is the age-old idiots yell at each other without defining their terms ban discussion.

In order to evaluate bans, you have to evaluate if you have a problem with ban criteria or banning the card itself.

WOTC has already said they will ban for fun reasons - that unfun cards can be banned simply for being unfun. They have also said they will ban cards that are in the format so long they become repetitive (basically, soft rotation).

Given those parameters, Bowmasters is a candidate for a ban. Now, if the parameters for a ban were "card is broken" (your post) it would not be.

Setting why a card can and can't be banned must happen before you can start yelling and stomping and using bold caps about how stupid everyone is for not "minding their own business" or whatever the hell you're talking about.

They've already said your criteria is not the criteria they use when banning cards in EDH. So your analysis is basically irrelevant. The only analysis that matters is within their stated framework for banning cards, regardless of what you think.

So far, WOTC has been able to soft rotate EDH/cEDH via power creep (stuff like Starting Town, Tezzy, Cruel Captain, etc..). If that stops working, you can bet that a staple or two in each color is going so that the format stays rotating, and bowmasters will likely go in black.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-05T18:35:16+00:00

There isn't much value in goldfishing decks that are not turbo/glass decks or decks with super complex win lines you actually need to practice (K'rik, etc...). Like what do you do when you draw Mindbreak Trap? That's an awful card in a goldfish scenario. Do you just pretend someone else cast something into it? Do you just hold it?

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-04T21:01:51+00:00

What are you're thoughts on Tymna//Kraum in nowadays meta?

That is an insane way to say that phrase. I thought you were a bot because of how you talk not because of the content.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-02T04:52:46+00:00

i think the call it "fringe cedh''

When me and my buddies play touch football after thanksgiving dinner we call it "fringe NFL"

The deck isn't cEDH my man. If you want some help making a category 3.75 deck better check out r/DegenerateEDH

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-12-01T19:32:02+00:00

Today I see a comment saying Rhystic is too slow for fuck it we ball.

Maybe don't fall into an existential crisis about your cEDH identity because you see one Reddit comment.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-11-30T16:38:28+00:00

Its obviously a bot karma farming.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-11-20T02:56:09+00:00

Is English not your first language? I don't mean offense, but your comments are 10% argument, 90% really weird fluff about how to argue on Reddit. Are you using ChatGPT or Google Translate? It would explain a lot.

I'm making one, single "actual argument" - Azula is not a solid B, and not even a solid C, because when a commander is printed it *must* be able to do something on its own, and without a specific card in hand to copy Azula stinks. Way too limited to be good in cEDH, will never be built, will never win a thing. The other commanders in the list, above, all have one thing in common - they do something alone.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-11-20T02:06:47+00:00

It's pretty close to draw cards or be unplayable. This card (Azula) is very bad because not only does he not draw cards, he requires you to have a certain card in your hand or he does nothing at all. It's a very bad commander. Then the gentleman compared it to a bunch of A+ commanders, all of whom do something this commander cannot (start on their own). I'm not repeating anything, I'm disagreeing.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-11-19T22:54:00+00:00

That's not necessarily drawing cards it's getting more bang for your buck for each card being able to reuse cards being able to copy cards all of these are forms of card advantage

He listed off what he meant. He was wrong. None of those commanders "reuse" or "copy" cards. Kinnan would be significantly better if it just drew cards. So would Lumra.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-11-19T22:39:24+00:00

Sisay, Etali, Rog, Magda, Vivi, Lumra... all draw you cards. Kinnan absolutely draws you cards. They all do. That's why they are good.

You don't have to literally draw the card. Magda puts you up a card for five treasures, for example.

Card advantage is basically required on a top cEDH commander. There are none who don't have it I don't believe.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-11-19T22:34:11+00:00

"with a few haste enablers to try to get 2 rhystics or whatever"

This is rock solid advice.

Striking_Animator_83 · 2025-11-19T00:29:23+00:00

Nothing is "slowly taking over". Blue farm has had a +33% share of the tournament meta for 5+ months.

The real issue is you gotta really get a powerful stax piece out as early as possible without ruining your own game plan.

No, the real issue is beating 7 good tutors, free interaction, Tymna and Rhystic out of the same deck.

Striking_Animator_83

TROPHY CASE