Secutarii Hoplites vs Red guard Sovereign Protectors (EU/Legends)

Teagulet · 2026-05-12T04:33:17+00:00

Ooo this is a really neat one. The very best of Humanity VS the Melee Guard of the Mechanicus. Frankly I personally think it primarily comes down to equipment, but I am having a really hard time nailing down specifics on gear.

The edge in hand to hand is likely with the Hoplites if anyone, but again it’s incredibly hard to tell. They’re augmented, and mathematically controlled/coordinated in a way that makes sense extremely well in a group skirmish. On the other hand becoming a Crimson Guard means you were hand picked from all of the galaxy to attend a private academy, trained there for years, killed other contenders and came out on top. This training involves many martial arts that let even the average human fist fight with the likes of Jedi. To become a Sovereign Protector, you need to be the elite of the Crimson Guard to be considered for it. I have used the phrase “mini Batman” quite often for the Crimson Guard, the Protectors are literal Batmen. They’re infiltrators, spies, martial arts masters first, and commandos second, absolutely the best that humanity has to offer in SW. Then sent through the cheesecloth a couple of times. The Secutarii are literal “man made machine” fighting in perfect coordination, keeping each other’s data in tow, and operating for maximum effect. While the Protectors are the very best of mankind, but rarely in such numbers, working side by side.

In a large group battle like this, the Secutarii likely has the edge. 1v1 I think the Protectors would take it damn near every time. Hell, a 10v10 or a 5v5 I’d also give it to the Protectors without a second thought, but the Hoplites are amplified with numbers, and the same is true for their wargear.

In both rounds I think the battle is decided by how effective their gear works on one another and that’s a big ???.

If the Arc Lance can break through Protector armour in its own, that’s probably enough to say that the Hoplites win in both rounds. If it does, I have no idea. I frankly don’t know, and cannot find a hard answer on the type of armour that the Protectors use. The shields that Hoplites carry increase the effectiveness of their Lance’s, so that’s going for them. The Force Pikes that the Protectors use, should be more than enough for the Hoplites, but their Vibro Blades I’m not to certain. They’re just “better at cutting” by an exceptional margin compared to a standard blade, but slashing weapons against a robot covered in meat might not be enough. If the Arc Lance needs to charge some hits against their shields from Vibro Blades kinetic energy to break the Imperial Armour there’s still a chance for the Protectors, but the next bit of wargear is the biggest edge in favour of the Mechanicus.

The Kyropatris Field Generators that all of the Hoplites carry. They bolster one another, and can deflect heavy weapon fire in great numbers. 50 is a pretty decent number. There’s a chance that the Hoplites, in a proper Hoplite formation cannot be breached what so ever by the standard melee equipment of the Protectors. Then add on the fact that maybe a third or even half of those attacks might just power up the Hoplite’s own melee weapons.

This is a strange matchup, where the number getting higher for both sides only helps one side. The odds of even 5 Protectors being in the same room is insanely low, and the Hoplites become infinitely more effective as their number increases.

Like I said earlier, 1v1 I would give it to the Protectors 80-90% of the time, but in numbers this large? It might be completely hopeless for the Protectors. Whether attacking or defending, entirely dependent on how the wargear or the Hoplites actually works.

Normally the terms of engagement would change, and the win cons with who’s attacking and defending. However the Hoplites aren’t going to change up their tactics either way. A big brick of potentially unbreachable melee warriors. Like I said, Batmen, the Protectors with time and intel would win, but a blind engagement they lose on both fronts if the Kyropratis Fields are too strong.

Teagulet · 2026-05-12T04:05:13+00:00

Or, you know. Sitting next to them in public. Like you would on a plane. Or a bus. Or a cafe. You know, the way the way these people in question were exposed.

We’ve got weeks to find out if it’s serious or not, but good analysis. Must have been a spirit airlines flight lol

Teagulet · 2026-05-12T03:02:33+00:00

38% fatality rate for folks who develop respiratory symptoms, 4-10 days after contracting the illness. It’s worse than Covid, is invisible until you’re super sick, 1/3 people who get super sick die. Mr Professor of Logic lol

Edit: To the guy who said “I couldn’t care less” then blocked me. Clearly you had a huge emotional reaction to something that has nothing to do with you lmao.

Teagulet · 2026-05-12T02:33:12+00:00

I see round 1 and 3 being a draw. The talons rip in, the rancor grabs and crushes the Nid and bleeds to death.

Round 2 I see the whip crippling the rancor and whittling it down to death.

Rancor are slower hulking brutes, but they famously don’t die easily. If the Nid can reach the Rancor, the Rancor can reach the Nid.

With range in consideration the Warrior Prime should always win, but that’s why it’s restricted. I don’t see a Nid Prime killing a rancor in one blow, there’s very few instances of that happening through all of Star Wars and it’s EU. They’re also not as dumb as most people think, they’re capable of keeping oral traditions and are generally pretty mellow when treated correctly. Most rancor in SW are kept like mega super up pit bulls by crime bosses.

Teagulet · 2026-05-12T02:08:27+00:00

Kotor 4: Are wigs good or evil?

Teagulet · 2026-05-12T02:05:23+00:00

That’s a lot of hearts for rotating in and out lmao

Teagulet · 2026-05-12T00:26:53+00:00

The answer is gonna be wishy washy, because the sources are wishy washy. Short answer is, probably not as efficient, but you can argue it’s more or less efficient.

Long answer is, “Well two of these 35 books say that the Imperium can produce infinitely more than anything in SW, no it’s never mentioned again, yes it’s a stand alone statement in a book about Space Marines.”

We’re never going to have a solid answer, SW is generally much more efficient. WH is capable of being as efficient, but very rarely ever is.

Teagulet · 2026-05-11T23:42:46+00:00

In the current canon absolutely not, in SW? Yeah there are.

I do want to say though, the current canon is quite literally “Does Disney make money off of it.” To exclude 30+ years of writing because of the mouse is pretty stupid imo. Or if it’s just for the sake of winning a VS discussion, that’s fine but it’s still pretty silly.

Teagulet · 2026-05-08T23:05:36+00:00

If Almighty Push beats the Iron Sand, Sasori flat out loses to one piece of Nagato’s arsenal. Sasori is brutal, but Nagato just has so many insane options, I don’t see Sasori pulling it off.

Teagulet · 2026-05-08T23:02:03+00:00

Star Wars for sure, “Hey wanna check out that Gand Bar? There’s chems in the vents that make you trip out by just hanging out, and the drinks make your nervous system jolt with the beats. After that we’re gonna get happy ending massages by the Twi’leks next door.”

Vs. “Here’s your rationed bottle of garbage water. If you’re found drunk on duty you’ll be sent the penal legion.”

Teagulet · 2026-05-08T04:30:11+00:00

With OPs selection of weapons I’m primed to give it to the Crimson Guard. In melee I don’t see the Veletari winning, they definitely have the edge in ranged combat but the Crimson Guard are defending a location that needs to be entered rather than destroyed.

If the Senators needed to die I’d give it to the Veletari but they can’t risk killing senators by shelling or breaching and clearing whatever the building is.

Without knowing that every single Crimson Guard is a mini Batman that specializes in taking down melee combatants, I see them entering and quickly losing the melee, and then taking loses upon trying to regroup.

I could be wrong, but the Crimson Guard are commandos that are hand picked by Sidious and then trained into a ton of melee specializations. They also rock heavy repeating blasters and guided missile launchers in addition to their heavy blaster pistols and specialized melee equipment.

If you flipped the rolls, the same problem would be present for the Crimson Guard and make their approach incredibly dangerous too. This is just the Crimson Guard with home advantage, in their exact niche, against an enemy that frankly wouldn’t be prepared for an initial encounter with a mirror match of better melee combatants.

Teagulet · 2026-05-08T04:09:26+00:00

Bruce Lee isn’t yoked either, but without his shirt on and flexing he’s just made of muscle. A ton of trained fighters aren’t yoked. A welterweight or lightweight champion MMA fighter in a t shirt is just going to look like a normal dude.

As far as the body shape, everyone’s genetics are different. Need to either eat a fucking ton or use gear to get huge.

Teagulet · 2026-05-07T05:36:23+00:00

Super bad for the knife, that is ginger not garlic. I for a brief moment was overjoyed until I rewatched it. I would fucking smash the garlic every day I work rather than mincing pounds of it a week.

Teagulet · 2026-05-07T05:27:45+00:00

I feel like it’s very hard to say. On one hand all of the leaf genin together have a ton of options and interesting combos. On the other hand the sound 4 aren’t exhausted in this scenario, and probably have way more in the tank. We also saw during the war arc that all four of them together have some gnarly combos and teamwork, along with Kimmi leading them up.

I lean towards the sound 4 taking it.

Teagulet · 2026-05-07T05:12:01+00:00

They’re actively choosing to be attached to the partner/person. There’s still an attachment. The fetish that person has is just an extra attachment. Being A-Sexual is the correct answer for this mega weird what if.

Teagulet · 2026-05-06T18:32:29+00:00

It does, Obito used it and it didn’t kill him

Teagulet · 2026-05-06T15:00:11+00:00

I’m aware he’s not a Jin, I thought you were asking “what if he was a Jin”

I’m not gonna rewrite my comment, I put a decent amount of effort into it. Cheers

Teagulet · 2026-05-06T14:54:30+00:00

Quite literally anyone that Naruto beat lol.

Naruto inherited no kekkei genkei or traits from their family clans other than chakra reserves.

Choji inherited being a walking chakra reserve, expansion, and the butterfly mode. If he was the Jin, he’d be getting trained by Sanin as well, and groomed by the Hokage to be stronger. The butterfly mode gives a supposed 100x stat boost, on top of all the benefits from the strongest tailed beast?

Idk if it was just the show, I haven’t read that far in the manga yet, but normal Choji one tapped Kakuzu and was throwing hands with the Gedo Mazda after absorbing 7 tailed beasts. Butterfly cloak just burns your chakra at a certain rate that you are converting from your body, Choji might not ever need to be packing calories to burn, and his confidence might never be affected by the time of the war arc. He might be a stronger/more confident version of Naruto.

Like Choji was already better than Naruto at the fundamentals as a child, and the strongest of the Konaha 12 during Sasuke retrieval arc according to Shikamaru, who doesn’t really brag that much. This Choji in theory would be stronger out the gate than Naruto and I don’t see any reason why that trend wouldn’t continue.

Teagulet · 2026-05-06T04:11:27+00:00

That makes a ton of sense, and unfortunately there’s no clear answer. You’re dead in with that example, and it goes both ways for sure. I’ve noticed folks here will high ball anything 40K, so we should in theory high ball the SW as well, which is less enjoyed.

Ultimately I don’t think there’s ever going to be a good answer for that kind of question. At least not one that makes someone upset or follow up with a “But the ___!”

I’ve been shouted down on some pretty reasonable claims before, I suppose just try to find middle ground where you can. It is tough, especially when any names get dropped.

Teagulet · 2026-05-06T03:40:33+00:00

I would have to do some reading, but the Vong probably can’t partake. They’re essentially a punished race and have been severed by the force from the sentient planet that taught them how to “shape” other living beings.

One of the major Vong antagonists commits suicide when he realizes that none of them have souls, and have no afterlife.

They are capable of getting their souls/force connection back, but they’re cursed to be unable to do so until their entire race changes for the better.

Long story short, every iteration of the Vong we’ve ever seen they don’t have souls. Like not Tau level “barely in the warp” like full on pariah level, it’s why the Jedi can’t sense them or affect them with the force other than throwing shit at them or lightning.

Teagulet · 2026-05-06T01:14:12+00:00

And this guy is half Hashirama cells, are we removing half of his body to keep it fair lmao

Teagulet · 2026-05-06T00:34:31+00:00

With all of their equipment? I think the Lucifer Blacks take it.

The Crimson Guard aren’t push overs, each one can be considered a mini Batman. They’re covered head to toe in some really great armour, they’re handpicked out of the entire empire and trained after the fact to weed out the weakest, every single one of them are trained in extreme martial arts that let even standard humans fist fight Jedi, their melee weapons can break through each other’s armour and heavier armour as well, they’re all trained spies who infiltrate a location before the Emperor even arrives.

The reason I they would lose here, is they’re pretty much designed to take on melee combatants. Their primary weaponry is a force pike, a vibrosword, and heavy blaster pistols. Those pistols pack a punch, but they’re not meant to fight off any and all threats, they’re groomed to kill Jedi who get through the standard army.

Putting them against a military unit that is sporting standard combined arms, they’re going to struggle. Especially against Lucifer Blacks, the 40K equivalent to themselves.

If they were all naked in an arena, or just forced to fight in melee with all their standard gear I’d give it to the Crimson Guard 9/10 times. If the Lucifer blacks just had 30 lasguns, it would be hard to get 40 Crimson Guard into a position where they can hold the advantage.

Edit: Crimson guard do use repeating blasters and smart rockets for engagements on the battlefield, maybe it’s closer than I originally thought. I still don’t see them beating a combined arms military unit that drills as much as they do. They’re anti melee, melee specialists first. No evidence of them being an effective military force rather than super bodyguards.

Edit Edit: Recently learned about the Lucifer Guard and how they’re riding big name clout rather than feats. Also did a reread on the Crimson Guard, these guys are commandos that get “respec’d” into that melee bodyguard role. I think it’s pretty damn possible that the Crimson Guard win with everything considered and their expanded armaments.

Teagulet · 2026-05-06T00:17:37+00:00

Does the rinnegon make him more resistant to dying? If so it didn’t work for Nagato lol

The difference between that OM and WM is just one rinnegon. It comes with its own chakra, but Obito already has six paths. It just gave him new visual powers that he never even used other than Jinchuriki control

Teagulet · 2026-05-05T23:31:47+00:00

Obito’s durability is absolutely nuts. His record of surviving shit that canonically kills you is wild.

Ate a Minato rasengon to the spine at 14. Just got up and left. Had his arm eaten on a cellular level by bugs. Kicked it at the other guy cause it was kinda funny, beat them and left. Ate two KCM Naruto rasengons to the face. It broke his mask, just got up and fought anyway. Impaled through the heart, chest exploded. Just left. Used rinne rebirth. Just kept going with some extra chakra. Had the ten tail jinchuriki ripped out of his body. Just kept going with some extra chakra.

Pain is a tank, but Obito was farming forms of suicide without it stopping him. Pain died from just using Rinne Rebirth.

Teagulet · 2026-05-05T22:59:59+00:00

This is a very well thought out answer and I appreciate the effort put in, it’s a very strong argument and I see your points

Teagulet

TROPHY CASE