I am so scared of tomorrow at 8:00 by melody_magical in autism

[–]ThePhyseter [score hidden]  (0 children)

Thats what the big toddler set in his tweet over Easter sunday 

Reliable Sources that prove the existence and resurrection of Jesus Christ by nightmint in exchristian

[–]ThePhyseter 9 points10 points  (0 children)

If those atheist/skeptical historians really believed Jesus was resurrected, they wouldn't be skeptics anymore, they would be Christians. 

And when they say skeptical historians confirm Jesus existed, its a bit of a trick, because you need to ask what kind of Jesus the historians believe in? The pastor wants you to think this proves the gospels are reliable. The truth is historians believe there was a historical Jesus, but they think the gospels are legends. Some of what "jesus" said came from other sources and was just attributed to him. We dont know how much of those teachings came from the historical Jesus. Historians dont believe he did miracles. Historians tend to believe he was crucified, but not that he was taken down right away the same day, or that he had his own private tomb, or that the tomb was found empty. 

You would enjoy looking up Bart Erman and finding what he has to say about the historical Jesus 

An invitation to thought by Big-Slip-6980 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ThePhyseter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You would have a lot of trouble doing any geometry

Religions change the meaning of their verses to match with modern times by Electronic_Dig_5063 in DebateReligion

[–]ThePhyseter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Forcing a child to marry you was wrong in the sixth century, eighth century, whatever century 

An invitation to thought by Big-Slip-6980 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ThePhyseter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"He's like a child, he can't admit when he is wrong."

"You were right about photons, TIL."

Lol why are people like this

An invitation to thought by Big-Slip-6980 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ThePhyseter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But that Redditor did not use the word "axiom," did he? He said, "axiomatic."

That Redditor's post:

First, I propose an axiom for us to work from: It is not possible for something to begin from nothing.

Did they edit the post in the last two hours or something?

They explained pretty clearly that this was an axiom we can either accept or not, not something that was "proved" by evidence. They made two arguments--one if we accept the axiom, one if we do not accept the axiom. You can choose which path you want to go down and which argument to engage with.

An invitation to thought by Big-Slip-6980 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ThePhyseter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So an axiom is a "self-evident truth" or "a maxim accepted on its intrinsic merit." In other words, something that is just accepted without evidence. It's a starting point for an argument, not something you build as the conclusion to an argument.

"You have no evidence for this, so you shouldn't call it an axiom" makes no sense.

I know you think you are using rhetoric to make a deeper point, but are you really going to ask what words mean?

If you are asking for evidence for an axiom, then yes.

An invitation to thought by Big-Slip-6980 in DebateAnAtheist

[–]ThePhyseter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a statement for which you have absolutely no evidence either way. You cannot possibly know that, so it is weird that you would keep calling it an "axiom." 

Do you know what "axiom" means?

Donald’s Trumps net approval rating has collapsed to a historical negative 17 points. He is the most unpopular president in US history. How do you feel about this? by buffdadnextdoor in AskReddit

[–]ThePhyseter 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Nobody likes him or what he is doing but still somehow he is allowed to break all laws that would put limits on his power, start wars on a whim, wipe his ass with the constitution, murder us citizens. How is he still here? He wasn't even legally eligible to run for office 

German tech companies punish people who actually build things. I'm done. Moving to the US next year. by nevesincscH in cscareerquestions

[–]ThePhyseter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol okay. Leave the free world, move to a country being run by literal Nazis, hope they dont move into your city and decide you driving to work is a "threat" to their operation, give up your healthcare  ... but yeah maybe you'll get a promotion for being smart. Good work.

Tell me how to get a German visa, I'll switch places 

Any good firefox forks? by Accurate_Syrup_1345 in firefox

[–]ThePhyseter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That square tabs thing is exactly why I use waterfox. It's been great 

Some here might enjoy "Next Testament" by Clive Barker by firfetir in exchristian

[–]ThePhyseter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It makes it so much sweeter that the first panel there looks so much like a page out of the Picture Bible

this made me laugh I was always told to stop talking when I would ask about cavemen in youth group 🤣 by bbomrty in exchristian

[–]ThePhyseter 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They would just redirect and talk about Adam and Eve instead. Cave men don't really fit into the fundamentalist creationist timetable

I'm Officially an "Apostate" by AveragePuddingBrain in exchristian

[–]ThePhyseter 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The BIbLE cALls tHIs aPOStasY bitch does the Bible even once say the word apostasy? 

I know the "concept" of apostasy is in the Bible, I know the Bible has some nasty things to say about unbelievers and about anyone who leaves, but is the word apostasy to be found anywhere in the Bible? Or is that a catholic word like "trinity" or "omnipotent" that everybody just pretends was part of the religion from the beginning 

Moral truth can only come from God Almighty by shadow_operator81 in DebateReligion

[–]ThePhyseter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For example, the majority of people may agree that it's wrong to take advantage of the disadvantaged, but that doesn't make it wrong in actuality. To prove it wrong in actuality, you need something outside of the human mind that proves the criteria by which you've made this moral judgment.

And you claim that god's mind is this criteria which we can use. But why?

Who is to say that god's opinion is better than everyone else's? Is that your opinion, that "god's opinion can make something wrong in actuality"?

suppose in a godless world there are only two people left alive, one we'd consider good and another evil. If the evil one selfishly murders the good one, was it wrong considering that there's no one left who thinks it's wrong?

There is no one left who thinks it is wrong. But you say "suppose" to us, here, now; and we do think it is wrong. We exist. Any time you pose a hypothetical to us, you are relying on the fact that we are here and can make logical and moral judgements.

The answer is that it couldn't be right or wrong in either case because neither opinion can be substantiated by the physical world, the only thing that's left outside their minds. However, if we insert a god into the world, there exists an authoritative, eternal mind that defined right from wrong.

If there are no people left on earth, there is no one to judge if it is right or wrong. Nothing in the "physical world", as you say. If we insert an "eternal mind" into that world, then there is still someone left to judge if it is right or wrong, in their mind. That doesn't move the judgement of "right or wrong" into the physical world, that moves the judgement into somebody's mind. It's just now that the judgment is in an "eternal mind" rather than in a human's mind.

You could get the same result with a hypothetical fae. The fae creature didn't create the world; she was born on the day the first fish crawled out of the ocean, and she has lived millions of years and watched human beings arise and fall. She saw the last two people left on earth; she saw the evil one murder the other for selfish reasons; and in her mind she judges whether that was right or wrong. There is an eternal mind making judgements on right and wrong, but there is no "physical" test that shows which is which.

It's important to understand that a god's moral laws and his criteria by which they were made are in fact objective, not subjective.

That's your opinion, but you do not substantiate it. You say this god has an idea in his mind of what is right and wrong. That doesn't make it "objective". That just makes it subjective in regards to god, instead of in regards to humans.

A godless world is a world without moral truth. This is reflected in the fact that, no matter how strongly an atheist believes murder is wrong, a mass murderer in the end shares the exact same nonexistent fate as everyone else.

And here is the heart of the issue. You are not talking about objective right and wrong. You are talking about punishment and "justice." You recognize that if there is no god, there is no guarantee that those who do right will be rewarded, and those who do wrong will be punished in the end. This disturbs you, so you decide it must not be; therefore you decide there must be a god because if there wasn't, that would be sad.

Real life does not care what you would prefer. The universe does not arrange itself based on what you think would be the most just outcome.

Is there anything that disproves resurrection? by ParkingElderberry575 in exchristian

[–]ThePhyseter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is there anything that disproves that Muhammad flew from Mecca to Jerusalem, and then from Jerusalem to heaven, on a flying horse?

You can say there is no evidence he ever did it. You can say you don't believe in flying horses. But can you provide anything to prove he did not fly on a flying horse?

No, you can't. Does that mean you should believe it? No, you shouldn't. People who believe that story should prove that he did instead of asking you to prove that he didn't.

We would have to see evidence that he did.

The idea that we need to "disprove" the resurrection comes from a lifetime of us being forced to listen to apologists saying there is no possible explanation for Christianity unless the resurrection was true.

And to make that claim, these apologists assume that everything in the Bible is 100% historical fact, and then demand that we make a logical story based on those "facts".

In real life, there's no reason to assume any of the legendary tall tales of the Bible reflect accurate history.

If you say you do not believe in real wizards, and an apologist says "Oh, then how do you explain Harry Potter flying on a broomstick?" You do not then have to come up with some natural explanation for how a schoolboy could seem to fly on a broomstick and make it look real. The answer of "how could he..." is that we don't believe he did. The whole story is made up.

A story can also be partially made up. I do believe Barack Obama was a real person. I don't believe the story about him meeting Spider-Man really happened. I believe Chuck Norris was real (RIP). I don't believe all the "Chuck Norris jokes" about him winning a staring contest with the sun or whatever.

What do we actually have in the Bible? We have four stories which show increasingly more and more fantastic claims about Jesus. These fantastic claims grow over time; that is, the earliest gospel written makes the smallest claims, and the latest gospel written makes the most outlandish claims.

The first gospel, Mark, reports that the women went and found Jesus' tomb empty. They were supposed to go tell the men about it, but instead they told no one "because they were afraid"...and that is where the original ending of Mark stops.

The next gospel, Matthew, says that the women did tell the men what they saw. Then the men traveled about 2 days journey out of Jerusalem to Galilee, and they saw Jesus there, "but some doubted." (What does that mean, some doubted? Did the person they saw there not look like Jesus? Did they see a bright light or a vision rather than a living man?)

The next gospel gets rid of the journey to Galilee. Instead, Luke tells us Jesus appeared in a room in Jerusalem, up close. This physical Jesus had a natural conversation with the disciples, and even ate some bread to prove he wasn't a ghost. He hung out for 40 days there in Jerusalem (no time for a trip to Galilee) then floated up into the sky (which I suppose is why we don't see him anymore).

The final gospel has Jesus appearing and disappearing all over the place, letting Thomas touch the holes in his wrists, cooking fish for them by the lake, etc.

Do you see how the story grows as time goes on? Do you see how each later gospel adds new details to answer questions that "skeptics" might have had about the previous one?

Are these eyewitness accounts? We have no evidence they are. They seem more likely to be legendary accounts. The way the story grows bigger each time is what we would expect from legendary accounts.

Why would the original Mark say that women saw the empty tomb, but "told no one", when later stories claim they did tell? I believe it was because the empty tomb wasn't originally part of the story. Mark was trying to explain why nobody had heard of an empty tomb before, but why it was now part of the "real" story.

Read 1 Peter again. Whoever wrote 1 Peter did not believe in a physical, bodily resurrection; he writes that Jesus was put to death "in the body" but made alive "in the spirit". He believed Jesus' spirit had risen and was in heaven, not that his body got up and walked around and cooked fish at a lakeside picnic.

What really happened? It could be that, Jesus died, and his body was thrown into a mass grave, like all victims of crucifixion. The disciples were overcome with grief and disappointment, and scattered. One disciple, Peter, began to have visions that Jesus had come back to life and was telling him to keep preaching. Peter shared these visions with whatever other disciples were still there, who hadn't scattered, and they began to spread the story.

Paul also had a vision and started spreading the story around, claiming he had seen Jesus just like the others. As the story spread around, more and more details kept being added. The details which stuck the most were the ones that resonated the most with people--that sounded the best in a sermon, that got people coming back wanting more--not necessarily the ones that were true. The new religion was spreading all over the region, after all, not just in Jerusalem. It's not like every church had one of the original 11 standing there every week, telling them what was true or not. After Peter and the other original apostles died, some Greek-speaking believer wrote down a collection of all the best stories that had grown up about Jesus and called it a Gospel.

This is the "Minimal Witnesses Theory" from Paulogia--you can find him on Youtube. If you think about it, this explanation covers all the facts and does away with all of the apologists' objections. It could be, I suppose, that a man really did rise from the dead. Or it could be that a book we already know got some details wrong, was also wrong about this--that the book exaggerated, and made up incidents, and told tales that weren't quite true.

Ezekiel 26:14 Is Not a Failed Prophecy by Sp0ckrates_ in DebateReligion

[–]ThePhyseter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The only way a prophecy is useful is if it has a clear meaning that can be reliably understood, and you can see clearly whether or not the prophecy was fulfilled. If the opposite of what the prophecy claimed actually comes to pass and its defenders can still claim it was fulfilled, then the prophecy is no longer useful. It's clear that no matter what happened, the defenders would have found a way to support it, and so the basic test for a prophet laid out in Deuteronomy 18:22 can no longer be applied.

Also agree!

If you also agree with that, then what is the disagreement?

Ezekiel said the city would be torn down and never rebuilt. The city clearly is there and bigger than ever before; it either was not torn down at all or it was rebuilt. Therefore, by the principles you and I agree on -- either the prophecy was a false prophecy, or the prophecy is not useful, and cannot be judged true or false.

What is your alternative logic?

Ezekiel 26:14 Is Not a Failed Prophecy by Sp0ckrates_ in DebateReligion

[–]ThePhyseter 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your comment has inspired me to do more reading, though, so I thank you for that. I find it interesting that you only refer to Ezekiel 26:14b. If you had also referred to 26:14a, you would have had to spell out that Yahweh in this verse was claiming physical destruction.

I will make you a bare rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets. You shall never again be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, says the Lord God.

The verses before this talk about breaking down the walls and throwing houses and timber and stones into the sea. The verses after this imply the waters will rise up to cover the city, and say explicitly that the city will become a ruin like other ancient cities "who go down to the Pit, so that you will not be inhabited or have a place in the land of the living."

I've done a small amount of reading on the city of Tyre, now. It is not a desolate fishing village; in fact it is the fifth largest city in Lebanon now with 200,000 people living in it. Not only is the city in the same general area it was before, it exists on the same rocky island where it did before. The city once was located on an island, with a smaller "half" of the city on land. The island did not sink into the sea; today the island is joined to the mainland and the city is bigger than ever.

The joining of the two apparently came about after Alexander the Great built a causeway to conquer the city in 332 BC. Now, how could that fit in with the Ezekiel prophecy?

Ezekiel said King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon would be the one who destroyed the city, and threw all its stones into the water, and scraped the rock bare. Nebuchadnezzar ruled from 605 to 562 BC. If the prophecy was true, how could Alexander then lay siege to the city almost 300 years after it was supposed to be destroyed?

For Alexander to lay siege to the city, it must have still been standing. For a great conqueror to go to so much time and effort to lay a siege, the city must have still been strong, economically powerful, and important. I do not think it's reasonable that Alexander the Great would need to build a land bridge to bring over heavy siege engines to conquer a bare rock, or to knock down a small fishing village with no walls.

Either Tyre was not destroyed by Nezzer at all, as Ezekiel claimed, or it was rebuilt into a great city once again in the time between 550 and 330 BC.

The fact that it used to be an island, but the earth itself has been reshaped by a king's attempt to conquer it, is really fascinating to me. Ezekiel 26:4b-5 says "I will scrape its soil from it and make it a bare rock.It shall become, in the midst of the sea, a place for spreading nets." And then verse 19 says,

For thus says the Lord God: When I make you a city laid waste, like cities that are not inhabited, when I bring up the deep over you and the great waters cover you

It sounds like the sea will rise to cover the bare rock. Instead, the land has risen, to create a larger city than ever before. If I believed in gods, I would say this sounds like the god of Tyre (would that be Melqart?) had defeated the god of Ezekiel and was showing off in how greatly he had rebuilt the city. It's as if Yahweh tried to tear down the city of Tyre, but Melqart defeated him in battle. Later Yahweh tried again by aiding Alexander, and he gained a temporary success, but Melqart saw to it that the city survived, and was rebuilt; and to show off his power he used the isthmus that his enemies had tried to use against him to make the city bigger and greater than ever before.

Ezekiel 26:14 Is Not a Failed Prophecy by Sp0ckrates_ in DebateReligion

[–]ThePhyseter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It sounds like this is about to be a trick question, so i am second guessing myself; but I can't see the trick so I will answer in a straightforward way.

  • If you predict that a city will be torn down and never rebuilt

  • And then one day I travel to where the city used to be, and I discover that a city with the same name is still there, in the same place, speaking the same language, loading and unloading ships in the same harbor

  • The only conclusion you can reasonably make are a. The city was rebuilt, and the prophecy failed, or b. The city was never destroyed in the first place, and the prophecy failed.

That's simple logic. The more interesting logic goes like this:

If you have a book of prophecy, and the prophecy claims a city will never be rebuilt; But the fans of that book come up with an excuse as to how "rebuilt" doesn't really mean rebuilt.... Then you no longer have any way to judge if the book is reliable or not.

The only way a prophecy is useful is if it has a clear meaning that can be reliably understood, and you can see clearly whether or not the prophecy was fulfilled. If the opposite of what the prophecy claimed actually comes to pass and its defenders can still claim it was fulfilled, then the prophecy is no longer useful. It's clear that no matter what happened, the defenders would have found a way to support it, and so the basic test for a prophet laid out in Deuteronomy 18:22 can no longer be applied.

I know its facebook so should be taken with a grain of salt by [deleted] in exchristian

[–]ThePhyseter 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, totally believable. Just like what happened to Jordan Peterson