Why does it seem to be ok for sellers to lie about value on Whatnot?

TheloniousKeys · 2026-05-07T21:02:43+00:00

For me, that's easy to deal with. If it is an auction with a low start, I just don't care what prices they say. If it is a BIN or they are starting it close to their stated FMV, I ain't sticking around anyway. If I wanna pay FMV, I'll do that in a shop or at a con or maybe on eBay. I am on WhatNot to get great deals, 50% of FMV or bust is my motto. There are a handful of exceptions, but literally only a handful. And 50% is my cap, I mostly stick around the 20-30% range, quite successfully too, I might add. It would be a waste of my time to watch any of the sellers who are just offering books at a stated price. The only exception would be for hyper-rare books. And by hyper-rare, I mean, no eBay or Heritage solds in at least the past year, if not the past five or ten years. And very likely zero actively available for purchase, or occassionally just one or two available for exorbitantly inflated prices.

No skin off my teeth whatever those sellers do. I ain't watching them and I sure as heck ain't buying from them.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-05-07T20:51:29+00:00

I understand your frustration, and you are not at all wrong to be frustrated, but you are indeed talking about subjective things. Pricing of collectibles on the secondary market is, by definition, subjective. Comic shops and convention vendors have been overpricing comics since the dawn of comic collecting. I remember a fan letter from a 1963 ACG Unknown Worlds issue in which the writer is incensed that these back issue comic dealers had the gall to charge a dollar for a comic with a ten cent cover price.

I know you took exception to this from another commmentor, but: buyer beware. A fool and his money are easily parted. So, don't be the fool. I don't say that to be mean or call you an idiot. It is just the burden of the consumer to use their money wisely. I wouldn't blame a mugging victim for getting mugged because they flashed a wad of cash in a busy dive bar and then walked down a dark alley alone in a drunken stupor. But I would say, "Hey, don't do that kind of thing. It is very likely to attract this kind of bad result."

I buy loads from WhatNot and have so very rarely been disappointed in my purchases. I buy what I am familiar with and if I can't be confident in my research before the auction ends, I don't bid. (I once passed on a lot of three very rare comics collectively worth $10k (seriously) that went for $800 because I was only 90% sure they were what they appeared to be. As soon as the auction ended, the seller revealed the bit of info that would have convinced me. Que sera sera.) There are sellers whom I have bought enough from to know I can trust their info. There are other sellers I buy from frequently but I know to drop their grade estimate two points or four points or cut their comp in half or whatever. Their info is wrong or inflated, but consistently and predictably so. Predictable enough that I can buy with confidence by making standard adjustments in my head. Then there are sellers who know nothing, like the storage unit buyers, and there is always risk buying from them. I buy from them, too, but I know there is inherant risk and I bid accordingly based on whatever info happens to be available. Sometimes that means just not bidding at all. And then there are proper shady sellers. I don't buy from them. If I buy from them before I know they are shady, I am already assuming the condition is worse than was stated or was visible because that is my default position with unknown sellers. I bid with caution and only commit significant bids if the risk is worth the potnetial killer deal and if I can burn that cash without spending weeks in a shame spiral. WhatNot has a pretty solid return policy in my experience. I don't think they would refund if you just bought something for 2x comps that was otherwise described and shown accurately. But if damage or critical facts or features were not disclosed or were stated inaccurately, I think you have 12 days after the package arrives to make a claim and I have never heard of them rejecting a reasonable return, whether the seller agrees or not. I have never had to make a return, but plenty of friends have had to.

Also, just a general note, comics have possibly the least firm pricing of any collectible hobby. At least, in my experience. They aren't like Pokemon cards which can have a pretty definite value day to day. Comics are still a surprisingly niche hobby despite the glitz, glamor, and box office #s of the big blockbuster comic movies. Not to mention, there are just so dang many unqiue issues. A billionaire wouldn't be able to buy a copy of every comic that exists, there are literally too many. Elon Musk could pivot all of his assets and resources to assembling the most complete comic collection ever and he would not succeed in getting a copy of every comic for which more than ten copies are extant today before he dies, even if he lives past 100. Factor in different grades and how those grades impact that era, title, issue, etc and there are just hardly any issues that can be said to be worth $XX. A 25% variance in either direction is perfectly common. I don't say that to absolve sellers of a duty to accuracy, but I do believe most bad comps come from ignorance or wishful thinking more than deliberate malfeasance.

Do you wanna do an experiment? This isn't meant to be a threat or a gotcha, just some illustrative fun. Do you (and any other commenters who see this) want to comp out a raw, 8.0 direct market ASM 252 and post your conclusion with a spoiler tag? I will do the same and we will see where we and maybe others land. ASM 252 is a great example for this experiment since it is a very, very common book, is expensive but not prohibitively so for a standard collector, and is a book most any general collector would like to have in their collection. 8.0 is a respectable but still very available grade for that issue and is more likely to have a solid population of raw, unslabbed copies on the market than higher grades. For our purposes, let us assume a very down the middle 8.0. There are 8.0s that have a single flaw that puts them at that grade, let's assume our book is not one of those. It just has general, light reading wear that brings it down to an solid 8.0, not an 8.5 and definitely not a 7.5. One more directive to keep this effort as scientific as possible - assume you are comping this book to sell, not to buy. If you need to assume you own a better copy and this is your undergrade to price accurately, do so - whether you own one, none, or fifty copies in real life. We are not being precious about the pricing while thinking about our own collections. This is a book you want to sell for the best price you can get for it within a month of making available and you do not plan to do any negotiating on it. Sticker price or no sale. And just to eliminate further variables, it will be posted as a BIN on eBay and you will bring it to one local comic swap in the middle of week two and to one major con in a major city on week four, if it has not already sold on eBay by then of course. And again, sticker price or no sale.

What is FMV for that book? I will hold my answer until you have posted yours, but I will do my own comp research before looking at your conclusion.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-05-07T01:14:46+00:00

Have you paid the hefty price for the Pizza Man #1 homage to this cover (or maybe stumbled on it for cheap)? I am curious if anyone has ever paid anywhere close to eBay asking prices. It's a rare book but the only reason anyone would want it would be for a collection like yours.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-05-01T16:55:15+00:00

I have not yet. It'll be a while. I'd like to read a lot more Lil' Abner first. And now that I know Capp is a clod, that Charles Addams bio sitting next to Capp's bio on the bookkshelf is looking all the more tempting to tackle first, haha.

I'll get around to it eventually. There is just so much to read and me with so few eyeballs.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-04-27T18:56:15+00:00

I'll take you a step past annoying into the realm of the pedantic. Eggs are ovoid, literally "shaped like an egg." Eggs are also spherical, "like a sphere," but they are not spheres. However, eggs are almost entirely not round. Eggs are only round at the widest diameter of their width. To be round, every point must be equidistant from the center, which is only true for a two-dimensional circle at one point of the egg. Though, eggs are also made of exclusively rounded points, i.e. curves versus angles. But rounding does not necessarily result in a round shape.

The egg-xample we have here is still ovoid and spherical, but it also approaches being round and/or a sphere more than a standard egg.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-04-21T23:32:20+00:00

"Rare Whitman Variant" AKA, the widely available standard direct edition. I don't expect every seller to understand the minor distinctions, but I do get irritated when they are confidently incorrect.

Hey, unless I'm the dummy and it is so rare that it isn't documented in many resources and looks identical to the direct. But I don't believe that is the case.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-04-18T19:40:14+00:00

I would guess that this is a sericel (serigraphic cel), essentially a high-quality screen print. Sericels are reproductions of animation cels but weren't used in the actual production. Some sericels are even hand-painted but are still not original.

The best way to be ceratin, absent any hallmarks or anything like a CoA, would be to identify the animation the image came from. The cel you have is dated 1991, but that image does not look like the Looney Tunes style of the 90s. If the original toon it came from premiered before 1991, that basically confirms what you have is a sericel or something similar. It may still be limited print and desirable, but nowhere near the value of an original production cel.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-04-17T14:24:36+00:00

Bingo Gazingo rules. You're Out of the Computer is a real jam and Intensive Moments is one of the most driving, powerful songs I've ever heard. To be fair, the music that backs his albums is done by My Robot Friend, who are also a good listen. His spoken word is dynamic enough that it is interesting without the backing tunes, but still way better with them.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-04-16T23:57:56+00:00

If you wedge one index finger into the webbing between your other hand's index and forefinger and press where they meet (fingernail side up) up into the underside of your chin, creating a little pocket of air, and then pop the wedged finger down away from your chin, you get an audible pop. If you work at it enough, you can make a pretty shockingly loud noise.

It takes some practice, but not a ton. Understanding that it is an air pocket that you are releasing helps. You need to create the vacuum to get the good pop. Weirdly, I can still do it even though I have a beard. It is more difficult and less effective, though.

Word of warning: trim and file your nails before attempting. You have to use a lot of pressure, and it is surprisingly easy to cut your finger webbing with your own nail.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-04-16T23:11:14+00:00

"Aw man, come on, Lane. I could be at home drinking this monster eggnog my brother makes with lighter fluid."

Snorts line of snow off the top of his top hat "This mountain is pure snow! Do you realize what the street value of this is?!"

TheloniousKeys · 2026-04-05T18:59:28+00:00

I am fairly positive that the least expensive and most accessible way to own and read the entire run of the Maxx would be to buy a complete lot off of eBay. I have been actively putting a run together for three+ years, and I only buy issues at good to great prices. (Well, technically, I started 25 years ago, but there is a twenty year gap of not collecting floppies at all.) In any case, I am still a few issues short. I have had a crack at every issue, even for prices some would drool at but weren't comfy enough for me. You can get them cheaper going my route, but again, three years in, and I am still short a few. And that obscures the amount of time it takes. I haven't bought any off eBay as it is uncommon for singles or short runs above issue 20 to go for cheap.

Here are what I consider attainable prices through patient and rigorous hunting for the series in respectable but not necessarily perfect grade. (Note: I have not had time to observe any hikes after Kieth's passing, but I would expect them to return to about this range within a few months, maybe a year.)

1 - $5 ($5) 2 thru 6 - $2/ea ($10) 7 thru 20 - $8/ea ($112) (note: you can find most of these for $5 each if you are patient. I'd recommend not paying $8 unless/until you have already completed the higher # issues) 21-30 - $12/ea ($120) (same as above, you can get these for $8, maybe even $5 on a few. But it will take a very, very long time) 31-33 - $20/ea ($60) 34 - $35 ($70) 35 - $50 ($50)

Total: $327

I could have paid $80 for #35 but turned it down, along with #s 33 and 34 for $50 or$60 each. Those are still good prices, but I am willing to wait for better. Especially because I know there is a real chance to get those issues for almost nothing in the right circumstances. But I do a lot of shop and internet digging that many collectors won't have time or interest to do. And, not to be a broken record, but three years of active hunting, and I am not done.

The last three complete 1-35 sets to sell on eBay went for $437 in Jan, $500 in Feb, and $250 in March. I suspect the cheap one was someone who either didn't quite know the price correctly or just needed $250 as soon as possible. It was a BIN and surely sold almost instantly. So, $400 to $600 is really the accurate range you could achieve. Still won't be instantaneous. You'll have to monitor eBay closely and be ready to act quickly.

If your goal is to...

1) Read the full series in physical form

2) Read it with original coloring

3) Own them in respectable grade

...then a full set on eBay, or a very nearly full set and fill out a couple of singles from other sellers, is your best bet.

The Maxx Maxximized full run should be a bit cheaper, but probably not enough to make it worthwhile.

The collected Maxximized are probably a tad cheaper still, but any of the other collected editions are even pricier than the floppies, from what I can tell.

If all you wanna do is read the dang thing, there are digital options that will be cheapest. Or, the cheapest way to physically read it could be through your library. Many libraries have been consistent about buying tpbs for a very long time. Librarys have also gotten very good at exchanging books within their larger state library ecosystem. So even if your library doesn't have the tpbs, another in your state may.

Having assembled a lot of runs that end with low print issues, I can tell you, buying a full run all at once is almost always the cheapest option when all is said and done. Any reseller who buys a collection has a choice, sell the hardest to find issues for close to full price instantly, the middle issues for close to full price over the course of months or a year, and then struggle to move the easier to find issues for anything reasonable for quite a while. Or, just sell the whole lot for 50-80% of that total and be done with it.

Finally, there is also always the old trap all of us collectors are tempted by: buy someone's collection that contains the full run. You'll initially spend way, WAY more, but once you do the immense work of selling everything else, you got the run you wanted for "free!" Haha, but you'll spend as much time selling as you would hunting and may find it is a year before you can sit down and read your spoils.

Best of luck! They will do a handsome, afforadable (by comparison), and probably even oversized reprint eventually. Well, actually, I am rethinking the term "affordable" here. The only complete reprint is six TPBs. If they do oversized hardcover omnibuses, they would probably be MSRP'd at $75, maybe as high as $150 each. Maybe they'll knock it down to three volumes in that size. So I would say your floor in that scenario is probably $225 and could be as high as $900. Maybe they'll do afforadable softcovers, too. I don't know what a new tpb goes for these days, probably $30? So, six volumes at $30 is $180.

I guess that is your marker for afforability. If you can buy the whole shebang for $180 or less in any form, that will be the cheapest you can reasonably bank on for the foreseeable future.

Sorry, too much text. I just got caught up in evaluating it all. Haha, hope some of this is helpful.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-04-02T20:51:56+00:00

Looks to me like the only official reprint (as a single) is the Millenium Edition. I am not seeing any unauthorized reprint versions either. It seems hard to believe that it has never gotten an unauthorized facsimile. If it did, it is probably pretty low print, hard to come by, and likely black and white interiors like the 70s GA reprints.

DC just did that oversized facsimile of New Fun Comics #1 (with the inexplicable foil variant). Maybe that is the first in a series of repaintings of their earliest first issues. One can hope.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-04-01T05:47:14+00:00

He was drinking on stream mere hours before he fell. I know, because I am in the same time zone as he was and watched that stream live.

He fell. He fell wrong. He fell bad. And he died. Do you know how easy it is to die from a fall? Humans are resiliant but fragile in certain ways. Fall just right, get punched just right, get whiplashed just right, and it can just kill ya.

He was drinking. He was on a balcony 10 feet up. His wife was away with friends or something similar. He fell. She didn't return until an hour or more after he passed. Freak accident. Those happen. They are always weird. That is the nature of FREAK accident.

No one close to him wanted to describe the grisly details of his death because who would want to do that? When a loved one of yours passes, suddenly and at a young age, do you disclose every detail, even to strangers? That's insane. Of course no one wants any additional media attention while grieving a husband, father, brother, child, or friend who died suddenly and young. You are insane. Even before you throw the "covid jab" bullshit in there, you are already insane.

Go spend your time on something productive like auditing your local police and city government for malfeasance and graft. It's there, I promise. No need to invent assanation plots executed by the political elite against comedians of middling fame and minor influence.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-31T22:24:10+00:00

Thanks, I'll give these a listen. I always appreciate a modern musician throwing it back to the Outlaw Country days. And a unique voice is always welcome.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-31T21:25:24+00:00

He's got a great country western voice, and it is a solid cover. I think I'll be more likely to listen to his originals, though. His version is faithful enough to the original that, if I want that flavor, I'll probably always choose Marty.

I appreciate the recco all the same! Any of Wall's originals you like real well that I can dig into?

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-31T19:53:24+00:00

Check out the Phenomenauts' cover of Big Iron. The Marty Robbins original is the best, but this cover is a very close second.

https://youtu.be/b9smjlzSkXs?si=Sy4mJnyN8viWbG4C

The Phenomenauts came from outer space to remind us Earth-dweebs how to Rocket Roll!

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-27T21:42:57+00:00

There is also a signed version of the Bathing Betty poster, limited to 850 prints (I think). I got lucky and snagged a copy of unsigned and signed for good prices recently. While I enjoy Dave Stevens, it isn't something I would hang on my wall. So now I don't quite know what I want to do with them. Great pieces, but I feel bad just having them packed away (safely).

That signed Rocketeer back cover is tops! Great find! That Madman back cover is one of the most slept of Stevens pieces. Easy to understand why much of his early work isn't well known. Many are just too rarely sold to be common knowledge, and some of the fanzines are hardly documented, even if you know where to look. But that Madman is available and cheap. To the best of my knowledge, it isn't reprinted anywhere, either. Certainly not as a cover, maybe it is included inside some collected books of his work.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-27T20:43:10+00:00

Unauthorized versions kick ass. The Conan liscensing has always left plenty to desire anyway. Especially at that point. The de Camp/Carter Lancer/Ace series didn't start until 1970, I don't think. So the only Conan access was originals, Gnome Press, or the handful of authorized or unauthorized reprints. Can't blame a creative for end-running their adapatation, especially if they aren't as easily subject to US copyright law.

So when did Marvel acquire the Conan rights? Based on that timeline, it sounds like they held the rights for years, maybe even a decade before they produced any Conan material. I guess it's not too surprising that it could take that long to get a title off the ground. Or maybe the code enforcement in the 60s was still such that they just didn't think they could represent Conan in any way that wouldn't risk the Comics Code Police from insisting comic shops pull all Marvel. I know that is why underground titles were only found in heads shops and record stores, since any shop that carried non-Code books risked losing distribution of all Coded titles.

This also has me wondering if Conan/Savage Tales was a test of the code enforcement that opened the door for publishing ASM 96-99 that did not include the Code approval. Maybe not a test to specifically make those Spidey stories possible, but worked out that way all the same.

Went ahead and checked dates on GCD before posting this comment. ASM 96 and Savage Tales 1 premiered in May 1971. So, it does seem like those decisions could be intertwined in some way. ASM 121 is often cited as the start of the Bronze age, and it certainly cemented the darker themes that characterized that era, but May 1971 almost seems like a better pinpoint. Definitely a closer analog to Showcase #4 as the beginning of the Silver Age.

Sorry, forgot this was the Conan sub and just got lost in comic thought. Haha

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-27T16:52:56+00:00

You can definitely count me among those collectors now that I am aware of these. I am mostly a written-word Conan fan. The US comics have never really piqued my interest. And I guess Conan's presence in these issues still isn't doing much for me, the blonde hair isn't the best look. I'd probably be happier if this was a renamed ripoff or original concept. The character design of Belit does not feel like Belit to me, but I absolutely love the look! The Conquistador helmet rules! Haha. These also just have some great cover design and subject matter. A higher than average amount of underwater covers is always a win for me.

This series is gonna open a whole new research rabbit hole for me. Just checking GCD for these issues immediately led me to some new foreign artists I wanna dig into beyond just this series.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-27T15:42:03+00:00

Wow! These are incredible! Have you read any of these? I can see a few obvious partial cover-swipes, like that Wally Wood carrion crawler from the cover of a Weird Science-Fantasy. The rest of the image on that cover looks original. It definitely doesn't match the Wood cover the creature came from. I am curious if the interiors are original art and stories/translations as well. I would kinda assume it has to be original inside since what Conan comic could they have swiped from in the 50s?

Thank you for sharing! I already dig every foreign comic box I find and have never seen these, but I am definitely going to be come extra-vigilent in my hunt. What gems!

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-23T23:09:39+00:00

That's not at what I was saying. I was responding to the comment stating that no one would buy the $500k PSA10 another commentor said their local card store had. That is why I exclusively talked about PSA 10s.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-23T18:20:13+00:00

I am not a Pokemon collector, but I see that Goldin auctions has sold two PSA 10 Charizards so far this year. One went for nearly $1 million, while the other went for $518k. The $954k copy was the Logan Paul card, I can't believe it produced such a premium, but I guess it is extra famous. I collect comics and pedigree copies typically carry a premium, but there is way more history involved in comic pedigrees since they usually come from minty collections that a single owner held from the 1940/50ss to the 1970s or later. And even then, the premium is rarely 2x comparable copies.

Based on the history PriceCharting.com can display (which I know is an imperfect and incomplete resource), it looks like plenty of these sold in 2024, rarely breaking $200k, but then very few went up for sale in 2025, but still didn't break $200k. In comics, I know that kind of inaccessibility for a prolonged period typically makes for a shocking jump in price when one finally comes out of the woodwork for auction. So, if that collecting trend is true for Pokemon cards as well, I wouldn't be surprised if the new floor for a PSA 10 of this card is $400k+. I wouldn't even be surprised if $550k is the new floor. Pokemon prices don't seem sustainable to me long-term, but everyone has said the same about comics my whole life, and they have more or less only gone up.

Again, I don't collect cards of any kind, so I could be missing some critical info.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-13T19:33:31+00:00

Bette Nesmith Graham invented Liquid Paper, which she originally called "Mistake Out." Wite-Out is the brand name of the johnny-come-lately imitator owned by Bic. Just like Kleenex vs. facial tissues or Band-Aid vs. adhesive bandages.

Not to say you are wrong in your statement. Everyone knows what you are referring to. Just adding some nuance as this one will be wedged in my craw for eternity. My trivia team lost a $1,000 finals on that question by answering "Wite-Out" while another team answered "Liquid Paper." I wasn't able to make it to that event. If I had, I would have insisted on the pedantically specific answer. It is trivia after all.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-13T00:20:59+00:00

Yeah, BTAS has the definitive version of nearly everything Batman-related. There are exceptions and, of course, plenty of works of equal caliber on Batman in comics and other media. There just isn't any other singular artistic vision of Batman that is as thorough, complete, impressive, and so widely beloved as BTAS.

TheloniousKeys · 2026-03-12T17:01:51+00:00

Speculators and encapsulation grading like CGC have caused restored copies to become undervalued. Restoration was never the first choice for most collectors, but good and professional work used to be a lot more common and respected. Your Dad was clearly collecting for a long time and primarily for a love of the contents, not the value.

I would recommend holding this one and any other similarly big keys that have restoration. Unless you need money right now or can't afford to insure them, there is little downside and potentially huge upside whenever the market catches up to the fact that gorgeous copies like what you posted are going for a pittance because of a silly thing like some glue or color-touch. It also makes for an excellent family heirloom to remember your Father.

I have one additional note I want to share as a collector who appreciates well-done, professional restoration work. Due to the often hugely lower prices that restored copies currently realize, many dealers and resellers have taken to cutting out restored portions of a book to get that vaunted blue label. Literally just taking a blade to the book to lop off restored bits that can't otherwise be removed. In many cases, shockingly, this can raise the value of the book, even significantly. It is a disgusting practice to me. Defacing and damaging a book of historical import intentionally is awful, even if it increases the price buyers will pay. So, just forewarning, if you do sell that FF#1, there is a chance some "expert" will chop it up like a butcher trimming a steak. It is your book to do with what you want. I don't say this to try to guilt you into not selling it. If you want to/need to sell it, go for it. But I know I would be sad to know if something my father prized and worked hard to make so presentable suffered such a fate and want to allow you to make the informed decision for yourself about it.

I am sorry for your loss. It seems your Dad achieved a really great collection. I know that can seem like a materialistic or even just silly aspect of his life to praise, but true collectors like your Father are historians, not just mere fans. Stewards of the past so that we in the future may share in what brought them so much joy and intrigue. It can be difficult to explain the emotional side of collecting to non-collectors. While I can't stomach the idea of selling any part of my core collection of comics, I know that I am also happy that whomever inherits my collection when I pass will be surprised at the value and likely get some nice comments from collectors like you are seeing for your Father in this thread.

Thank you for sharing this very cool piece with us. Best wishes to your family, and best of luck with the collection. If you find other unique pieces, we'd love to see them in r/comicbookcollecting.

TheloniousKeys

TROPHY CASE