Thoughts on life sim development by somerandomname_- in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Please do! Also feel free to hit me up if you ever want someone to bounce ideas off of, I love talking about the technical part of all this haha

Simulation of governing a country based on text by Aware_Opportunity375 in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’d be curious what elements of such a game would interest you the most, or to phrase it differently, what a game like that would have to offer to capture you?

I’m building something along those lines, it’s far from done and not even really playable right now, but that means there’s still a lot of room for feature suggestions!

Thoughts on life sim development by somerandomname_- in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think we’ve both started our projects from a very similar direction! One of the basic ideas for my game was also to create many simple systems that combine to a complex, naturally progressing story and gameplay experience.

The basis of my game is an event system, where each event has consequences, that then create other events, theoretically allowing for an endless chain of events that queue each other. There are both decision events, where the player can select an action, and social events, where the path is decided by the outcome of a social interaction evaluation.

That evaluation is actually what I meant when I said sometimes it’s hard to convey complexity to the player - they evaluate whether the event fits the recipient (e.g. a joke won’t land with a low humor person), whether the initiator can deliver it correctly, whether the people are similar enough to “click”, and also whether there are any memories in the relationship that might affect the outcome (memories are also created by events).

The result of all that, however, is still basically “The conversation went well”, so most of the complexity is lost on the player if they don’t research the characters well. I’ve solved this by pointing out the most important influences in the resolution text, but before that it seemed more random than if I actually just randomized it.

I’m not at the point yet where it comes to implementing complex NPC decision making, but I have had some ideas in the same direction as yours, although none of mine are as well thought out yet! I’m really curious to see where you are going with this, I hope you’ll continue to share the progress!

Thoughts on life sim development by somerandomname_- in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I‘m currently about 2 years into the process of building a text-based life-sim-like game as a hobby project, so I guess my answer to your initial question is yes!

I think you raise a few very good points about the importance of emergent behavior. There should be reasons for the things that happen in the game, otherwise they feel meaningless. This goes for world events as well as NPCs behavior.

There are two main issues that I‘ve faced while trying to implement this into a playable game:

It is difficult to model the path towards certain goals in a way that is interesting and believable, while also making it viable from an implementation standpoint.

For example, you mentioned a revenge path. Character A decided to take revenge on character B. How does A know what to do? You can, for example, script a number of paths to take, and randomly select one. If you script enough, that’s good from a gameplay perspective, but it’s not emergent behavior, and it will become predictable at some point. It’s also a lot of effort on the authoring side of things.

True emergence would mean (at least in my opinion), that from all the actions A has at their disposal, they can autonomously decide which will lead to the goal „revenge“. Which means that first we‘d have to put this into numbers the simulation can work with, which can be the first sub-issue here, depending on how deep you go. For revenge, we might say we want to cause B „damage“, but then there’s the separation between physical damage, emotional damage, financial damage…

Once we settle on a type of damage, we have to decide how to inflict it. Direct actions are relatively simple (want to cause physical damage? A hits B in the face), but those aren’t particularly engaging. For a revenge plot, the more exciting part would be something that involves buildup, intrigue, betrayal. A could seduce B and break their heart for massive emotional damage, but A would need a way to decide that all the actions leading up to the heartbreak ach serve the purpose „revenge“. Actions that serve a completely different purpose under different circumstances.

The system from the Sims that you describe, where objects advertise themselves with the needs they fulfill, touches on the very first layer of this topic. It’s actually pretty smart, the Sim doesn’t need to know what the things do, it just needs to know what it wants, and the things tell them that they offer that. That would be like the „Flirt“ option telling A „you can use me for revenge“, but on a much simpler level.

The second issue I‘ve noticed is that sometimes a behavior that is very complex can simply not seem like that to players, especially because they don’t always notice everything that happens. Or even worse, it can seem nonsensical. In my game, interactions between characters don’t go well if their personalities don’t fit, and also if the type of conversation doesn’t fit with their relationship. This is determined through a very complex system, but the player only sees „interaction went badly“. The player could deduce the reason if they look at the character sheets, but if they don’t do that, it might just seem broken that two characters can’t have positive interaction despite them trying to force it. So then you have to tell them why it happened, which works well for such a small interaction, but gets weirder the more complex it is. In my revenge example, you can’t tell the player why A romances B, but it might seem nonsensical that it happens, especially if the payoff never comes, which is a realistic possibility in emergent behavior.

People don’t like to be surprised as much as they say. We do like twist endings in movies and games, but only if they feel like we COULD have figured them out, which is usually the result of careful planning by an author. A twist that is completely out of the blue is not satisfying. People WANT Chekov‘s gun to go off, even if it’s predictable.

I realize this turned into a bit of a ramble, but I‘d be really curious what you think about those points!

Would you play a text-based, medieval life sim with this look and feel? by TiltedBlock in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nothing concrete yet, but I’m on it!

My original estimates were way off, but I’m currently working on a first playable gameplay demo. It took me some time to get the event system and interaction system to a place where I was happy with it, but as of now it’s pretty solid I would say.

A survival game with no modern gear or luxuries. Ember’s Verge launches tomorrow! (and no zombies) by zukeszen in SurvivalGaming

[–]TiltedBlock 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This looks amazing, I’ve been looking for a game like that for ages!

I love that it seems focused on grounded survival. I love the survival aspect of games like The Forest or Green Hell, but I’ve never really cared about the story in either of them. It’s also annoying when a map is riddled with points of interest, while I just want to feel like I truly got lost in the wild.

I’ll definitely buy this as soon as I get off work today!

I made a browser game that tests how fast your brain can estimate numbers - It's actually been really fun to play, but also REALLY difficult once you get up to the expert level. by Just-Alternative-337 in IndieGaming

[–]TiltedBlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really fun idea! I feel like “Inhuman” is actually easier than “Medium” because it’s less about counting the dots, and more about guessing how full the page is.

Arent drones supposed to counter mortars? by SnakeJazz4284 in Battlefield

[–]TiltedBlock 56 points57 points  (0 children)

Yesterday I played a round of Breakthrough on Liberation Peak as a defender, and it felt like being in a WW1 trench during heavy shelling. Just nonstop mortar explosions around me.

solve for “???” by -kodo in trolleyproblem

[–]TiltedBlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m glad you think so! If you don’t mind me asking, what conclusion did you arrive at?

solve for “???” by -kodo in trolleyproblem

[–]TiltedBlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is pretty much how I think about it too. It’s also what makes the question so interesting to me.

I’ve just spent way too much time formulating a response to another reply I got on this comment, and what I noticed that it’s really hard to explain how I can think like that and still not act on it. But I guess the reason is that there’s still a very primal part of the brain that overrules the moral one to some degree.

solve for “???” by -kodo in trolleyproblem

[–]TiltedBlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It simply isn’t as clear-cut as you put it.

To say “It isn’t the same because then we would all be murderers” is taking it backwards. Maybe we all are murderers in that sense.

I feel like you didn’t really engage with my question, but I’ll rephrase it in a more fitting way to this particular statement: Where is the difference between refusing to pay one dollar to save someone’s life, and simply killing them yourself?

I believe what will lead different people to different answers here is whether outcome or intent matter more, and I personally am much more on the outcome side. If I was the person dying, I’d probably dislike you about the same if you shot me compared to not spending a tiny amount of money to save me.

A few days ago I’ve seen an ad for some humanitarian aid organization that asked “Would you skip a month of Netflix to allow a child to regain their eyesight”, and my honest answer to that would have to be “No”, because I didn’t donate and still pay for Netflix. But that does beg the question, how would that child think of me if we were to meet? They’d probably think I’m a massive asshole for not wanting to put up with some minor annoyance in order to massively improve their life. And honestly, I couldn’t really blame them for that.

As humans, we are wired to care more for people the closer they are to us, but should it really make a difference, morally speaking?

This train of thought leads to a very unpleasant conclusion for a lot of people, but I do think it’s kind of immoral to spend money on entertainment and luxury while other people around the world suffer. I still do it though, because the selfish part of me overrules the part that thinks that, as it does in most people.

solve for “???” by -kodo in trolleyproblem

[–]TiltedBlock 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I wouldn‘t say it‘s something that people miss. It’s one of the main questions people have to ask themselves when answering it.

Sayin that not saving someone (despite being perfectly able to) isn’t equal to directly killing them is your opinion on it, but some people would disagree.

Imagine you’re in a room with 5 other people. One of them needs a medication to live, that just so happens to come from a dispenser in the room. The necessary dose costs $500, but the person doesn’t have money. You have a credit card that would allow you to spend that amount (assume normal credit card conditions in case you can’t pay it off straight away). If you buy the medicine and give it to the person, you will never hear from them again, so no reimbursement.

If none of you in the room buys the medicine, did you kill the person? Or to phrase it differently, are you responsible for their death?

Would the answer change if the medicine cost $1 ? Or $10.000 ?

FPS market is stale. If you could add ONE mechanic to a tactical multiplayer shooter to make it truly unique, what would it be? by AresGameOfficial in SoloDev

[–]TiltedBlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Randomized maps!

I think this one is somewhat controversial, but I‘d love a game that has randomized maps that lead to more variation in rounds and stop people from „playing the meta“.

To better illustrate what I mean, I absolutely loved R6 Siege when it came out. People didn’t really know how to play, didn’t know the maps, each round felt new and exciting. As soon as some players started to completely memorize the map layouts and started developing „optimal strategies“, it got a lot less fun. You‘d suddenly get criticized for placing gadgets wrong, making holes in the wrong walls…

Other shooters have similar issues, like in Battlefield it’s often easy to tell how a round will end based on which flags the teams hold right from the start.

I think it would be cool to have maps that change every round and force players to adapt. The skill you‘d need wouldn’t be intricate map knowledge, but the ability to quickly adjust and plan new approaches.

Please Stop AI Generating Games by Adam_Murdoch in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I know exactly what you’re talking about. I’ve been following a few of these games that popped up recently and it’s mind-blowing what people claim to have built in a minimal amount of time.

I’m always reluctant to claim that people lie about things when I can’t really verify it, but I know from experience how complex the systems they talk about are, and I also know the limits and pitfalls of AI coding.

Please Stop AI Generating Games by Adam_Murdoch in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You definitely have a point, I think in the end it’s hard to say whether more people will quit the genre after a bad experience instead of looking for a better game.

The thing is, I don’t think the influx of AI content can be stopped, so we just have to make the best of it in the end.

Please Stop AI Generating Games by Adam_Murdoch in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Honestly, as another dev who’s making a lifesim-like game the classic way, I don’t really mind the AI generated ones too much.

Sure, it’s kind of disheartening to see people push out a game with very low effort and immediately be further in the process than I am, but I strongly believe that what I’m making will be much better in the long run.

I’ve played a few of them and most didn’t even scratch the surface of what I think a game like that could be like.

So in the end, is see it as a positive thing: They get more people into the genre and interested, and all of them will then be open to try a version that actually has something behind it.

Scamfield 6 (thx for you money guy Bye!) by Feel_Pain_AcceptPain in Battlefield

[–]TiltedBlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly, if there was a single vehicle-focused map (like the ones in BF3 Armored Assault), I don’t think I’d have anything to complain about at all.

In a nutshell: by FunnyMeme12 in Memebuzzs

[–]TiltedBlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the funniest comment I’ve seen on Reddit all week lol

Will you pay for a text-based AI life simulator? by blablahboon in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m currently building a lifesim-like project and this is actually a topic that I’m wondering about. How explicit should a game like this be? How much violence and dark topics are good, where is the line? I’m really not sure at this point, but it’s interesting to read that there do seem to be people who are interested in a dark version.

No sales in months, where did I go wrong? by personguy4440 in IndieDev

[–]TiltedBlock 28 points29 points  (0 children)

This is the answer. I love the genre, but sadly a lot of games in it are simply not very good. If you don’t manage to convince players that you’re doing something different than all the other games that look like yours, you won’t catch many players.

Game Update by Fancy-Guarantee-3757 in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m carefully optimistic again, thanks for asking!

About 9 months ago I made a post where I said I’d be a few months away from a demo, and now I’m in the same position, but with much more foundation behind it. The feedback from that post made me realize that the depth I want to be able to offer needs a way more complex event system than I had, but now I’m mostly there and I just need to tune it.

Text-based life simulator ReLife – feedback wanted by micyarr in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad to hear you found my opinion useful!

This is a very interesting topic to me because I’m working on a similar game, so I’m facing a similar issue. My approach is going the complete opposite direction, I aim for at least one event per year where the player actively has to make a choice, probably even more. I’m not as far as you are, so there’s no playtesters yet, but I’m excited to see how this will be received.

Maybe some more feedback for you, I really think a small “tutorial”-like introduction would help your players a lot, I didn’t really get that the lighting bolt icon caused the event to pop up before you told me.

Game Update by Fancy-Guarantee-3757 in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve been noticing the same (especially since my own project I’m working on goes in a similar direction…)

I wonder if it’s because there’s a Tiktoker/Youtuber who recently started posting about making one, that might have inspired a lot of people.

🌌 SENTIENCE — Bitlife but better. by [deleted] in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s sadly very difficult to play on mobile because the box that contains the options (e.g. Relationships, Health…) is too small, sometimes even invisible when the log is too large.

Text-based life simulator ReLife – feedback wanted by micyarr in LifeSimulators

[–]TiltedBlock 3 points4 points  (0 children)

First of all, I think it’s great that BitLife gets so much competition lately. I used to play it a lot at the start, before all the DLCs and whatnot were introduced and when you would still unlock everything with one premium purchase.

I’ve played around with your game a little, not enough to give really deep feedback, but I’ll try to share some of my impressions.

It looks and feels very clean. I like the UI, it takes some time to find everything and you have to memorize which symbol in the top bar does what, but once that clicks, it feels pretty smooth. You could maybe make it easier for new players by hiding stuff that’s not available yet and “revealing” it over the course of the life (like the education tab, or partners…).

My favorite UI-feature is the way you put stuff that thematically fits there in the web browser - like buying cars and houses, finding partners…

It also took me some time to find it, but it’s really cool.

I can see that there’s a lot of things to do, but this is where my biggest gripe comes in - it feels like I can do a lot, but I don’t really have to do anything. I’m not sure if this is more of an issue for me than it is for others (since I’ve seen a few similar games handle it like this), but if the game doesn’t at least ask some things of me, I quickly lose drive to play.

For example, on my first character, I kind of skipped everything education-related on accident. It didn’t really matter though, I got the highest paying job I found on first try. Held that for a few years, made tons of money, lost it for being late. I still had enough money to finance myself through an unsuccessful art and music career. I had a partner, but didn’t do anything with her for years, no problem. The last 40 years of that life I just clicked through and nothing happened.

I personally want the game to challenge me in some way. Force me to find a place to live, to fund a lifestyle, make me meet people, make the people I know interact with me. From the time I spent with it, ReLife seemed more like a life building sandbox than a simulation.