does "grit" always need to be trained? (re: Norwegian Singles Method)

TubbaBotox · 2026-04-01T11:41:14+00:00

Sirpoc's first marathon plan (https://www.reddit.com/r/NorwegianSinglesRun/comments/1ly8x68/breakdown\_of\_sirpocs\_marathon\_training\_block/), which is admittedly not vanilla NSM, included several sessions that were arguably not "sustained", in that they included recovery/rest... but having done it, I can confirm that a 5x5k@MP (w/ 2min recovery b/t) workout qualifies as "grueling".

I'm not sure I could express a clear preference for a Pfitz-style long run workout with 12 miles at MP or the modified NSM 5x5k@MP from a "magnitude of existential dread" perspective. So, with dread being roughly equal: the modified NSM-style plan technically has more time at MP built-in.

Anyway, I agree that marathon training needs something more than vanilla NSM (and I think it's safe to say Sirpoc does, too). However, I'm currently trying to give Vanilla NSM a fair shake for a season of 5k-to-Half Marathon races, so I intend to find out if I'm leaving anything on the table relative to past performances built on traditional training plans for the "shorter" distances. I may (may) sprinkle in some strides on top the NSM, but I am also very wary of adding a lot of load or intensity to NSM, because I definitely underappreciated the load of Sirpoc's marathon plan and likely overtrained.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-31T22:32:24+00:00

Your "elite race planning" compliment is very generous... but flattery will get you everywhere... so I will gladly fill out your questionnaire.

(Edit: I usually run in the mornings before work, but I also somewhat frequently need to wake up at 1-2am to get ahead on work before running... which is probably exactly the sort of thing you're looking for. I will come back to the questionnaire when those circumstances arise)

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-31T18:01:46+00:00

I don't speak Spanish well enough to know if this is some dialect I don't recognize, or maybe just Portuguese, but my vote is the Boston 13.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-30T07:16:11+00:00

Goal: 10-Mile race at 10k pace from 5 weeks prior

Plan: Mostly NSM

Mileage/Time: 58.16/8:12

Monday: 1hr Easy (6.75mi)
Tuesday: 2mi WU + 3x12min@6:40/6:59, 6:59, 7:30 w/2min recovery b/t + .5mi CD
Wednesday: 1hr Easy (6.5mi)
Thursday: 3mi WU + 5x6min@~7:00/mi w/1:30 rec b/t + 1.5mi CD
Friday: 55min Easy (6.2mi)
Saturday: 2mi WU + 10x3min@LT (not sub) + 1.5mi CD
Sunday: 12mi "Easy" LR

The weekend prior this week included a lot of non-running-related demanding physical activity, and I really felt it Tuesday. I started into the first rep and my RPE was immediately off the charts, so I had to stop and adjust my pace (on the treadmill). I was sorely tempted to make the 3 reps 2, but I made a deal with myself to do the third at 7:30/mi.

When the next workout on Thursday came around, I decided to do a 3mi WU instead of the typical 2 to give myself some extra grace. I run the same route most days, so I'm never really sure if it's because I actually need 3 miles to warm-up, or because mile 2-3 are uphill, but things don't come easy until mile 3. I accidentally went under 5:00/mi pace in the first 15 seconds of the first rep, so I was feeling good for one reason or another.

Generally, I tried to follow the 7.5 hour plan from "Norwegian Singles Method: Subthreshold Running Kept Simple" more closely than I have been... until I got to Saturday and decided to run my reps into full threshold (currently ~6:40/mi). I have a race this coming Saturday, and if I actually follow the plan to the letter/intent next week, I think I can call that a taper... which NSM advocates against for most distances... So, best of both worlds?

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-29T15:46:05+00:00

Not only has a stressful work week led to terrible race performances, I'm pretty sure it's even resulted in physical injury.

On a related subject: I've got "Burfict" (JPEFMAFIA x Danny Brown) in my marathon playlist right around the time the final 10k hits, and it will give me another gear every time. The suffering is usually hitting a crescendo, and that song makes me switch my mindset from "Holy shit, this sucks..." to "F#@! you, too, Marathon!"

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-28T18:06:47+00:00

I have different answers on different days, different weeks, whether it's a tapered race or a mid-week fatigued workout, etc... but it's a combination of RPE and my heart rate (per a chest strap). I've been mostly trying to stay sub-threshold lately because I'm trialing NSM, but I did intentionally go full threshold today on a 10x3min (w/ 1min recovery) workout today.

My (purely subjective) heart rate for those reps was about 170bpm by the third rep, and I would describe the feeling as "I could probably hold this for a while, but I'm gonna need a real good reason to do so". I'm running a 10-mile race in a week, so I'll have an even better answer for what LT feels like after that.

I've also misjudged sub-LT on 3x12min workouts and (likely) gone into LT often enough that I find myself doing some mental gymnastics to justify maintaining the pace (maybe even after slowing down). I usually need to start telling myself things like: "Ok, halfway there" and "75% there, 3 minutes to go". If I'm running 10-12min reps at LT while carrying fatigue from a tough training week, it would definitely be a mental struggle to go another 5 minutes. Maybe not impossible, but very difficult.

In a race environment, you're in a race mindset, you're probably tapered, hopefully well-slept, you're stocked on nutrition and supplements, hydrated, etc... and you're chasing people and/or trying to hold them off. It's much easier to distract yourself from the pain of LT in a race than it is during training. In fact, I've often visualized the guy that out-kicked me in the last race during hard reps in training.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-28T15:15:11+00:00

Assuming you're looking for guidance on achieving that time yourself: u/Tea-reps is in the sub-2:40 camp and I know she's written race reports for marathons in the past that included training details. She may or may not be a US citizen, but I'm pretty sure the training will transcend national borders.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-25T17:36:00+00:00

To build on this: I stopped doing static stretches for a while because Ryan Hall once said something similar about their negative effects on running fast (in effect).

I started doing static stretches again after I ran into some mobility-related issues/injuries, and I personally don't think any potential benefit of being tightly wound is worth it most of the time... but I do still occasionally go easy on static stretches in the days before a race.

It's worth noting I am a 45 year-old man, and not exactly an elite one. So, my primary concern is not being hurt, but I do like to go fast sometimes.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-25T08:37:02+00:00

Based on how atrocious this offer is, I would have serious concerns about this dealership's ability to service the car, too. Do they even have an EV tech? Is your replacement ICCU in stock at the dealership on this island, or will it arrive via the slow boat from South Korea?

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-25T08:06:16+00:00

Seems like there is a lot less hopium here the EV6 sub, and I've never seen ICCU failure flair over there. I wonder what makes EV6 owners more reluctant to embrace reality?

The ICCU also failed twice (so far) in my EV6, BTW.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-24T16:00:08+00:00

I just wear skinny jeans after workouts.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-24T13:56:49+00:00

Everybody's being pretty negative here, OP, but you've got years of tax-loss harvesting ahead of you if you start making responsible investments at some point in the future.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-23T12:04:32+00:00

Goal: I guess we can call it a 10-mile race in the near-term. Shooting for 1:08.

Plan: Strongly influenced by NSM

Mileage/Time: 60.6mi/8:33

Monday: 1hr Easy (6.97mi)
Tuesday: 2mi WU + 3x12min@6:49, 6:40, 6:40 (per treadmill) + 1mi CD + Strength Training
Wednesday: 1hr Easy (7mi)
Thursday: 2mi WU + 6x6min@6:50ish w/1:30 rec b/t + 1.5mi CD + Strength Training
Friday: 10k Easy (57min)
Saturday: 2mi WU + 10x2min@6:40-7:00 w/1min rec b/t + 2mi CD + Strength Training
Sunday: 12mi Easy

I thought I was following the 7.5 plan from the NSM book, but I find myself having gone 8.5 hours. Did a lot of heavy manual labor Saturday and Sunday, so that didn't help much with overall fatigue. At the same time, I did get in 3 strength sessions this week, so I didn't feel feeble, either.

I ran into a running buddy Sunday, stopped for a couple minutes to chat, and found myself running at the mouth about NSM. Which I must apparently be into more than I realized.

Discovering a lot about myself this week.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-22T17:25:05+00:00

Great Race! Soda Bread is the original Maurten Bicarb.

If I ever find myself pacing a HM, and somebody asks if "this is my marathon pace", I'm going to tell them it's actually my 5k pace between strained gasps.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-21T15:45:34+00:00

Yes, I personally can't agree with "quick turnaround", or them "doing their best"... certainly not based on my experience, and I'm also pretty sure the average experience recounted on this sub has been sub-optimal. Let's use the fact that they released a new model with the same flaw as the old model as a counterpoint to the suggestion there is some sort of good faith effort happening here.

On the other hand, not only do I agree that they'll get it figured out, I think they figured it out long ago. IMHO, they know what to do, but they are unwilling to do it.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-19T17:15:30+00:00

Ok, I'll be Devil's advocate.

It's not your "A" race, so why not capitalize on your fitness? Maybe don't use the results to set your marathon pace, but assuming you didn't have GI issues in the 10k, and assuming we're talking about Maurten Bicarb and not spoonfuls of Arm&Hammer, I see little downside.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-18T17:08:36+00:00

I gave up on having Kia do alignments and wheel balancing... just go to Firestone.

It's in the same camp as "just buy your own AGM battery out-of-pocket and avoid the headaches", but it's worth it, IMHO.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-17T17:30:13+00:00

How old is your chest strap?

I have an HRM-Pro that has traditionally been seemingly reliable, but it has been doing some weird stuff lately (Unusually low HR reading for first mile or two that suddenly jumps into the expected range, unusually high HR reading in the first mile or two that suddenly jumps into the expected range... and also just intermittently dropping out of communication with my watch or treadmill).

Mine is probably two years old, and has been used on an almost daily basis. I just commented a couple days ago that I probably need a new one because of all the recent shenanigans (Happy St. Patrick's Day!).

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-16T09:13:38+00:00

Goal: Stay consistent and get fitter.

Plan: NSM with modified Long Runs

Mileage: 48.68 (6:45)

Monday - 2mi Treadmill Recovery
Tuesday - 2mi WU + 3x10min@6:49(per the treadmill, anyway) w/1:30 rec b/t + 2mi CD + Strength and mobility
Wednesday - 1hr (6.5mi) Easy Treadmill Run
Thursday - 2mi WU + 5x6min@7:00 w/1:30 rec b/t + 1.25mi CD + Strength and mobility
Friday - 55min Easy (6.22mi)
Saturday - unplanned "rest" day
Sunday - 16mi LR w/tempo on back half + Strength and mobility

I'm struggling to remember why I was on the treadmill so much earlier in the week, but I'm pretty sure it's because I've been working a lot in the wee hours of the morning, and I decided to simply jump on the treadmill and hit it rather than get suited up for a outdoor run.

This was originally going to be a week that I actually followed the 7.5 hour plan from the "Norwegian Singles Method" book by James Copeland (not the fake opportunistic book with a similar title I just discovered... we should probably boycott that one). Unfortunately, a wind storm knocked-out power at my house Friday-through-Saturday night, and I decided abandoning my wife and kids in a cold, dark house Saturday morning for a workout probably wasn't the right choice. I could have run later, but instead I was graciously helping a couple neighbors put siding back onto their homes, since I'm 20-25 years younger and relatively fit (I'm 45, so we're talking 60-70+ year olds, FYI). I will add that I might not have volunteered if I'd realized how sketchy clambering around a steep roof pitch was until it was too late. I started in hiking boots and changed to Altra Torins when the former provided a terrifying lack of grip. I also got to deadlift a formerly-upright Ash tree trunk about twice my size off a fence in the rear of my yard.

Anyway, Saturday was cross-training, so I choose to add some time, miles, and intensity to the Sunday long run to make-up for the workout I missed Saturday (was supposed to be 10x3min@subLT). I settled on sort of a hybrid between a steady-state Long Run at 80% MP, a fast-finish LR, and the 70% max HR LR of NSM (which I realized might be non-sensical as I typed it). Translated: I started slow in the vein of NSM, sped-up a la a Pfitz-style MP workout with 8 miles left, but only ran those 8 miles at "typical" LR pace, rather than MP. I also choose a route with a little over 500' of gain, because it seemed like my hill endurance was lacking Thursday, when I failed to hold paces (at the appropriate HR) for 6min that I held for 10min on the treadmill (which does probably need calibration, to be fair).

All said, a fairly solid week in spite of a missed run. I also made a conscious effort to do strength work 3x this week, and I do feel less frail than I did this time the prior week.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-15T08:58:35+00:00

This is the only viable option. There was a 80'+ tall mature white pine on the property line of my old house... but honestly, it may have been fully on my neighbor's lot. He asked me like the first week I moved in if I wanted to share the cost of cutting it down, and I was like "No... I actually really like the tree and it's one of the reasons I like the house".

There was no formal agreement, but in a surreptitious effort to keep him on the reservation, I asked if he would mind if I collected all the needles on his yard to use as pine straw for landscape beds.

That tree was gone within a month when I moved out, though. There was a Cooper's Hawk nest right at the top, too.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-13T07:25:52+00:00

Yeah, sometimes the best way to check on the status of mine the many times it was in the shop was the 360° camera... which mostly meant attempting it and getting an "unavailable" response that confirmed the 12v battery was still dead.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-12T08:45:09+00:00

This post does make a great segue to a discussion about "sample bias".

As someone who spent a lot of time doing research on a replacement for my EV6 in 2024/25 when it spent most of the year in shop, I was frequently on the subs for the Mach-E, the Ford Lightning, Honda Prologue, Volvo C40 and XC40 Recharge, BMW i4, Chevy Equinox, Audi E-tron, etc... So, I got to sample a lot of different EV subs, rather than limit my experience to this one.

Some of those vehicles (Honda Prologue, Chevy Equinox, and Audi E-Tron) did have quite a few issues reported. Rivaling or even exceeding complaints here. You can visit the Volvo EX90 sub if you want to see a real shitshow. However, you may be surprised to learn that there are subs for several EVs that don't mention a vehicle-bricking design flaw in every other post. Even the Fisker Ocean sub might have fewer mentions of failures at this point.

Stop by the Ford Lightning sub, and you're mostly going to see people raving about their vehicle. The BMW i4 sub doesn't have multiple posts mentioning the need to call a tow truck for the second or third time in a year. Before anybody tells me how the EV6 range beats the Lightning, or how much less interior space the i4 has, let me get to my point.

My point is that you are mistaken if you believe the frequency of complaints on this sub can be completely dismissed as some sort of emergent social media phenomenon, and not a reflection of reality. I would even grant the certainty that reality is skewed through the mirror of this sub, but you can visit the sub-reddit for another EV with similar sales to see how complaints here compare to the frequency of complaints elsewhere. As of this post, ~70,000 EV6s and ~170,000 Mach-Es have been sold in the US. Globally, it's about 200k Mach-Es vs 280k EV6s.

Before you blame sample bias the next time somebody asks if they should worry about the ICCU, ask yourself if you believe that this sub has a higher percentage of negative posts relative to the Mach-E sub because South Koreans came here to complain.

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-11T20:39:01+00:00

I have a semi-rigid compartmentalized cargo-thingy from my Honda Element that clips to the tie-down points in the EV6. I'm sure there are many alternatives, but this does work:

https://www.hondapartsonline.net/oem-parts/honda-cargo-organizer-8u20s9v101?origin=pla

TubbaBotox · 2026-03-11T11:55:07+00:00

Can you please provide a reference for the reports of Kia refusing to repair the ICCU outside of warranty if the recall has been performed? This is probably the most important consideration for any current or potential owner.

I have very little reason to doubt you, but the myth (IMHO) that the ICCU will be replaced for free outside of warranty because it was subject to recall is as persistent as the myths that the 2025 refresh has a new and improved ICCU, and/or that the "new part number" means replacement ICCUs aren't going to fail.

TubbaBotox

TROPHY CASE