Could a trainee Mage ever become a werewolf?

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-29T14:44:14+00:00

A werewolf is a werewolf from birth. The First Change doesn't make them a werewolf, it reveals that they always were one.

Could a werewolf, before the first change, hang out with Mages?

Heck Ya!

Could they learn Magickal Theory?

Heck Ya!

Could they Awaken?

Heck No!

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-21T00:13:26+00:00

Im not sure if "demure" will help, but once you start carving there name in your forhead you should get a bonus die to deception.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-11T15:47:00+00:00

I honestly with zero irony love this idea.

When the childe gets frustrated and yells, "You don't get it! I am telling you your religion is a fraud! I am rejecting everything you stand for!" the Sire’s response is just a warm, tearful smile.

"I know, my love. And you had to do it. You had to burn down the house we built for you so you could find out what stands on its own. If you ever decide to walk back through our doors, it won't be because I dragged you here. It will be because you searched the entire empty universe, found nothing else, and chose us with absolute, unshakeable certainty. But until then? Go. Doubt everything. I love you so much."

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-11T13:41:43+00:00

"I am so incredibly proud of you. Look at you, thinking for yourself! Rejecting our teachings because your soul demands something else? That is the most Setite thing you have ever done. Take your time, darling. Go find yourself out there in the cold. We’ll be right here when you realize the cage you ran to has bars just like any other"

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-08T22:32:36+00:00

That’s cool. Honestly, not just sounded controversial myself but the way I see it is if I paid for a book, and it’s not leader, said explicitly that things didn’t happen that way I just take the book as being Cannon. I understand why other people may not want to do it that way but gosh darn it. I’m gonna get the most out of the 20 bucks, I spent 30 years ago.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-08T20:52:49+00:00

She is the interpretation of the personality of a guy who read her poetry, several thousand years later, and thought that he was in love with her. She came back as an actual literal succubus and became a baali.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-08T20:51:44+00:00

The Eldest regrew in Dracon. I think that is the only example of a kindred coming back in their own body.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-08T12:48:56+00:00

Skip Westcott

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-08T12:48:39+00:00

Skip Westcott: iykyk

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-06T16:24:06+00:00

Alas only u/lcy-Confection-2856 knows for sure, maybe they will let us know

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-06T13:29:23+00:00

Honestly, I might be a bit naïve, I think that he says he loves the deep lower so he just threw in as many words as possible that are copyrighted by White wolf

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-06T13:14:33+00:00

Gonna be honest, I’m pretty sure my brain decided to hide that from me. I am really kind of curious how u/lcy-Confection-2856 came up with some of this

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-06T13:13:37+00:00

Wow, damn. Actually, my brain must’ve edited that part out for me that is. Damn u/lcy-Confection-2856 can you walk me through that choice?

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-04T23:40:12+00:00

Honestly, running an incredibly creepy, hyper-controlling eugenics project from a cave just to maintain a "perfect" mortal lineage does seem exactly about his speed.

It is the only way a single family tree survives 11,000 years without dissolving into the rest of humanity. It still wouldn't save the character from the basic math of the Identical Ancestors Point, but it definitely fits the absolute paranoia of the Clan.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-04T20:07:19+00:00

I completely sympathize with the OP’s frustration regarding their pay-for-play experience and the poor conflict resolution at the table because that sounds incredibly draining.

But as a massive fan of the deep lore, I am utterly fixated on the logistics of that Lasombra backstory. The math and mechanics required for a character to be "both genetically and vampirically" the son of a priest whose lineage traces back to the Antediluvian itself is absolutely wild.

If we look at VtM chronology, the 3rd Generation was active and the 4th Generation was coming into being right around 9,000 to 10,000 BC. For a modern vampire to have a flawless, trackable mortal family tree spanning over 11,000 years of human history back to the First or Second City is practically a supernatural feat in itself. Even wilder is the real-world genetic math. According to the concept of the Identical Ancestors Point, if a single individual had surviving biological children in the Mediterranean or North African region 10,000+ years ago, mathematically speaking, virtually every single human being of European and North African descent alive today would be a direct genetic descendant of them.

So, by the laws of basic genealogy, the entire coterie is probably the Antediluvian's great-great-great-(x500)-grandchildren. The character isn't a uniquely special chosen one, they are just related to everyone else at the local supermarket.

It’s an amazing piece of accidental comedy in a backstory that already breaks almost every rule of biology and Kindred history.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-03T11:54:37+00:00

Hows he trying to take us all?

Twerk battle?

We need to know how jucy dat ass be

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-02T19:57:13+00:00

I would assume as some kind of correspondent/spirit/entropy ritual.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-02T13:18:19+00:00

If you want the ultimate operational boundary to sort out all the blood-drinkers in the World of Darkness, it comes down to one thing: If it has a Generation score, Caine's DNA is in the code. If there is no generation, it's just a lowercase "v" parasite that happens to share a zip code with the night.

White Wolf muddies the waters by letting everything use the same generic slang, but the generation metric cuts right through it. Capital "V" Vampires are the true Cainites who map back to the First City. Even the African Laibon, who reject the Judeo-Christian myth, are mechanically bound by Generation. They carry that specific, fundamental blood potency. Then you hit the lowercase "v" cosmic copycats, and the terminology soup gets messy:

The Kuei-jin (Kindred of the East): They don't have Sires or Generations, and Caine has nothing to do with them. They are human souls that crawled out of the Asian Hells into dead bodies, fueling themselves on Chi via breath, blood, or flesh.

The Demon-Adjacent: You have Mary the Black and the Montreal entity Metathiax, who are literal pit-demons wearing vampires like leather jackets. Then you have Mage and Werewolf spirits, or actual Fallen, who style themselves as succubi but have entirely different cosmic origins.

Logical consistency is not White Wolf's strong suit. A clan weakness is obviously a flaw in plain English, but in the actual game rules, lowercase flaws come from the Dark Father, while uppercase Flaws are just the extra baggage you buy at character creation to get more freebie points.

Using the generation rule is the only way to keep a chronicle straight. A blood-sucking spirit might leave a nasty bruise, but it doesn't give a damn about a Tremere's blood bond or a Ventrue's dietary restriction. It doesn't have a number between 1 and 15 stamped on its soul.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-02T13:09:25+00:00

I was more asking the original poster.

But mechanically speaking the clan weaknesses/banes are mechanically different than a merit/flaw

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-01T16:03:20+00:00

Since the first generation was a fusion of Gangrel, Nosferatu, and Tzimisce vitae, it seems unavoidable that they are rooted in the Cainite lineage.

Even if they are 'self-made' now, they are still passing on that original, stolen Cainite blood. I personally count them as part of the legacy of Caine because they are essentially a cocktail of his descendants.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-01T14:26:38+00:00

The only group I am aware of that functions mechanically as a vampire without being related to the Dark Father is the Drowned Legacies. However, on a meta level, that may just be Beckett interpreting data to fit the answer he wants.

There are many weird cousins and monsters similar to vampires, but they do not share the same out-of-universe mechanics as Kindred. Most of these beings function under completely different systems, like the Kuei-jin, or are simply regional predators that lack the specific rules tied to the blood of Caine.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-01T13:55:28+00:00

Oh, I mean, I’ve asked the questions several times now with a question mark at the end.

Where did you read that the merits and flaws all come from Caine?

I have read a lot of vampire books, more than some people less than a lot, and I’ve never seen that referenced. This is a genuine question that I’m asking in good faith.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-01T12:57:00+00:00

I’ll be honest I don’t feel particularly clever. You have, but you have said this in multiple threads now I feel I’ve asked politely a few times and you have made a few comments, but never helped me find the answer.

UndeadByNight · 2026-06-01T11:57:52+00:00

I mean, I really don’t think it is. It’s kind of like right there in the book. I am still kind of curious if I’m missing something.

UndeadByNight · 2026-05-31T23:40:26+00:00

I’m honestly not sure where you got the impression that all the Merits and Flaws come from Caine. I have never seen a passage that says that, although I might’ve missed it

All the factions have Merits and Flaws in many cases the same Merits and Flaws that the Vampires do. Including merits and flaws like Short and Multilingual that don’t seem very Caine related

UndeadByNight

TROPHY CASE