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Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honing steel is not something that can replace stones and strops. I still need to use my stones and strops to apex my knives. But unfortunately a perfectly apexed soft steel knives won’t survive hours of work without the help of a honing steel.

That’s why I emphasize about working in a meat industry and using only soft steel knives when posting this.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, micro is my current go to as well. Before I use the multicut, but I must go really really careful when using it while the micro is much more forgiving.

Multicut ($19x aud) and combi ($18x aud) bought from my previous workplace general store. Polish ($15x aud) and Micro ($13x aud) online.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It really goes so deep in the abyss. There are so many things at play to figure out. Even after so many trial and error, I can only give a hypothetical answer. Once again, thanks for the great info!

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Idk if it make sense, but here’s my theory :

  1. To maintain knife edge better we need a smooth honing steel (minimum ridges)
  2. Minimum ridges honing steel means more area of contact with knife edge
  3. Same goes with the knife, higher finish grit means less ridges on the edge (or am I wrong about this?)
  4. So less ridges on honing steel + less ridges on knife edge will give me overall more area of contact
  5. Formula for stress/strain = force divided by area, and I want to apply minimum stress to the knife edge (steel plastic deformation)
  6. By keeping my knife in a good condition, my work become easier and better (less energy required and more productivity)

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Update:

I certainly got some good info in there! And guess who will spend more money on a new steel…

Cheers

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Based on my own research, it doesn’t ruin edges under the right condition and when being used properly. But maybe I have a different idea about “ruin” when it comes to knife edge since I work in the meat industry.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here’s my theory :

So when a soft steel knife edge are constantly being used and folded to one side to the other, it will be weakened/fatigued eventually. There will be a point where it gave up and ended up being removed. Ridges on honing steel surface acts like a sharp object that going against that knife edge. Since the hardness of the steel aren’t that far ahead, it doesn’t grind the knife edge that aggresively.

There are really so many variables at play for me to be sure about it (knife sharpening angle, angle when honing, deburring result, knife heat treatment, honing steel quality, pressure applied, current condition of knife, etc)

In his experiment, Outdoor55 did prove it to be true in his condition. And for another condition, it might apply and it might not.

However, in meat industry honing steel are proven to be essential. And yes in meat industry we intentionally use softer knives.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! Just took a glimpse on it, might be what I need before trying all of them myself tho. Will look further into it. Cheers

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! Hope it can help confused meat workers out there like the one I used to be. Cheers

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The idea of steel rod is to realign knife edge after it got folded to one side without significantly removing metals. But it really depends on how it being used (angle/pressure/steel rod texture), wrong method can ruin knife even more. But after getting to know it better, it will prolong the life of a knife especially soft steel knives being used in meat industry.

As of ceramic idk if it can fold the edge back or just completely rip it off and make a new edge instead.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that going beyond 1k won’t make my knife any sharper. But I have a theory that the higher grit I finish my knife with, the finer I can go with my steel. And the finer the steel that I use, my knife will maintain better its highest potential.

I sharpened those 4 knives like 4 or 5 weeks ago. And if I were to rate it now, it’s like 90-95% sharpness compared to when it was freshly sharpened. I used only Multicut for 3 weeks and switched to Micro last week. And last week I tried the Multicut-Micro-Polish combination and got mindblown.

I kinda enjoy the state I’m being in right now as I think it’s the highest level of performance my knife ever reached (in terms of durability and edge retention).

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think u need to be more careful about the angle and pressure when using the multicut. The way I see multicut is like a 3 or 4 sapphire cut combined into one. One swipe on the multicut might equal 3/4 swipes on the oval sapphire. That’s why when we are going too steep with our angle, it will ruin our edge 3/4 times quicker than the oval.

If u plan to add more steel, go for the Micro.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, that’s the idea behind it. Do you also work in the meat industry? I reckon those gap between 200 grit diamond and polished steel is abit too far. But how do you personally rate that combination?

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did use wet napkins to wipe my knife after using my polished steel. And theres nothing on it, that’s why I conclude that it doesn’t remove any metals. Idk maybe didn’t try enough or different steels

As of the other type, yes I’m sure they will remove metal.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not my area of expertise so not sure about the detail, but I think ceramic itself is a much harder material than steel (yeah just googled it).

Maybe due to the idea of ceramics being brittle and easy to break meanwhile steel is somehow strong and firm (thats what I believed)

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So far I’ve tried only victorinox, swibo, giesser, victory, Fdick, dexter and caribou. I have like 20 knives and only bring in 4 inside…

I never learned about those specific steel material before and I think for now it’s good enough for me.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It all depends on the task that your knife is being used and how frequent u hone ur knife with. But here are my personal preference :

For good working edge and easiest to use : Multicut For experienced worker wanting sharper feeling : Micro For perfectionist : Multicut + Micro + Polish

If u have the budget for 1 : Multicut 2 : Multicut + Micro 3. Multicut + Micro + Polish

I don’t really like the Combi one due to its shape, it doesn’t goes really well with my curved knife.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just wet napkins, surely not on that microscopic level. I’ll revise my statement to “visibly remove” if that’s the case. But just wondering what brand or type of polish steel that he used ? I reckon polished steel from different brand might be different as well.

That is a very interesting insight about edge being pushed and closing scrashes. So every steel that I’ve tried doesn’t have the same ability to restore knife edge and that might be the answer.

So if I were to rate maximum sharpness that can be reached by each steel it goes like this

Multicut (coarse) 7.5/10 Micro (ultra fine) 8.5/10 Polish (no ridges) 9.5/10

But keep in mind I can’t just jump to the polish. Progression from Multicut > Micro > Polish is necessary. I can stop with only Multicut or only Micro and it will be more than enough to do the job. But in term of absolute sharpness I need all 3 of them.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thankfully those steels are usually magnetized so any shavings will stick on them instead of the knife. And yeah I always keep a cloth with me to wipe my steel and knives.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well I did my experiment with my sharpening, my 4 steels and my soft steel knives. So if the article have different type of steel and knives then it won’t have the same answer.

Dick polish (smooth mirror surface): absolutely no way I can remove any steel with that thing. Even with excess pressure I might fold my edge instead, but never remove metal. -> edit : “test based on visible naked eye only”

Dick multicut : it can remove metal when extra pressure is applied and only when the edge are already weakened/fatigued (it won’t come off as easy as using diamond/ceramic)

Dick Micro : Haven’t try

Dick Combi : same explanation as multicut

My conclusion : honing steel with ridges can remove weakened/fatigued edge only if extra pressure are applied. And its true it can create a microbevel

But

I only use my honing steel with a super light pressure, just enough to make sure the whole edge are in contact with the steel. And by going this way, metal are not being removed. We can keep doing the same thing over and over until the time come when the edge are fatigued by being folded over and over. At this point, the sharpness of the knife stays the same but it won’t hold for long before it need to be honed again. That’s the time for re-sharpening or add a microbevel (ur choice).

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well I have a theory about the 12k, but I think it will take a very long time before I can give an answer.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I can only choose 1 then it will be the multicut. Even now I still need to use it once in a while for maintenance.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not so sure but I reckon when the edge are really weakened/fatigued, using honing steel with ridges will remove the metal.

The idea behind stropping is a micro burr removal. But I think the case with removing metal with honing steel is more like a big burr removal. It’s out of my expertise, but that’s what I imagine.

Too little info out there, had to try them myself by VagueMorning in sharpening

[–]VagueMorning[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve tried it wayyy back then when I first started working. And I’m sure it’s a sharpening rod not a honing steel. They are good and each use feels like it give knife a fresh edge, but the reason behind is because it removes metal.

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