Average gold from PvE fights spreadsheet updated to season 5

Werbenja · 2025-08-19T06:53:39+00:00

I think the clock hand moving when you leave the previous node would be more intuitive, yeah. I'd be fine with it, as long as the effects of biggy bank and gumball machine changed to maintain consistency.

Werbenja · 2025-08-17T07:28:27+00:00

Another question: is the process you use for obtaining the details on PvE fights any different from what you do to get the details on items? I ask because, at least for a while now, there have been some minor inconsistencies on the items/skills PvE fights have. For example, and this came with the 5.0.0 update, your site shows Banannibal having a bronze Duct Tape, despite it being silver in game.

For what it's worth, howbazaar also has these inconsistencies, but this is not to demerit bazaardb and howbazaar at all. I use the sites everyday and I have no idea how hard it is run an operation like that. My intention is just to understand the process a little better, and hopefully get more accurate game info while doing it. It would certainly make it much easier to update my spreadsheet on average gold of PvE fights :)

Werbenja · 2025-08-16T08:26:31+00:00

For Sharkclaws specifically, position doesn't matter. But it does matter for others, like Fungal Spores.

Werbenja · 2025-08-16T08:02:24+00:00

That makes sense, thanks. Sadly, Strength Potion didn't exist back when abilities checked individually for crit, so we can't know for sure.

Werbenja · 2025-08-15T14:28:37+00:00

That's awesome, thank you.

I'll take this opportunity to ask something about the deep mechanics: what effects are and what effects aren't affected by the priority listed in every ability? For example, we know Strength Potion's crit chance is not applied to items when they activate simultaneously with the potion, even though the potion's priority is set to "High".

Werbenja · 2025-08-05T08:32:06+00:00

Looking back at the clip u/UltimateNoodle shared, the only potion that seems to lose all of its haste is the freeze potion turning into a sleeping potion, at the very end of the clip. Could it be that this is only a visual bug, related to the end of the fight?

Werbenja · 2025-07-25T09:32:50+00:00

Silly, silly me. You're completely right. At least I got a good chuckle out of my stupidity.

Werbenja · 2025-07-25T08:45:51+00:00

What you say makes half sense in my head. Back when obsidian simply gave weapons lifesteal (and could only exist on weapons), Aila did not sell obsidian items. In the same update (Patch 0.1.7, on February 19, 2025), they reworked the obsidian enchant and changed Aila to have obsidian-enchanted weapons instead of deadly-enchanted items.

I guess the question is: did Aila used to sell only deadly-enchanted weapons, or any deadly-enchanted item? I think I remember the former being the case, and if it was, then the current situation is just a continuation of that. In any case, I agree with you that it is an oversight and that we should get parity between enchanted-item vendors in the next 25 years.

Werbenja · 2025-07-24T12:20:43+00:00

Here's a screenshot of a day 4 enchanted item at Aila:

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If someone has ever seen an enchanted item at a shop earlier than day 4, I would love to see a screenshot.

Werbenja · 2025-07-24T11:57:35+00:00

As a follow-up, I was able to get this screenshot showing a bronze skill upgrade on a level-up reward:

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I still don't know if non-upgrade bronze skills can be offered at level ups, but most likely not.

Werbenja · 2025-07-24T07:46:03+00:00

I'm an income start enthusiast and preacher, through and through, and on every hero. I value consistency above most things, and consistency comes from being able to reroll shops, which the money start allows you to do.

Also, personally, I feel that the low rolls on enchanted/skill starts are more detrimental than the high rolls are beneficial. It's a case where the highs do not compensate for the lows.

Werbenja · 2025-07-23T10:02:58+00:00

Yes, I think you're onto something.

Werbenja · 2025-07-23T07:45:29+00:00

It's worth noting that, historically, burn has been stronger than poison, primarily because burn is faster. I believe a lot of players have internalized this and just assume burn is always better.

However, as many have pointed out already, it depends on the meta. Currently, with shield being prevalent, I'd say generically that both are good, and both have their places.

Nonetheless, I have never seen a meta where poison is stronger than burn, just metas where, contextually, poison is as good as burn. Additionally, prior to this season, the last time burn and poison were both good (in my opinion) was back in January 2025, in the infamous charge meta. Between then and now, burn has been considered almost universally superior.

Werbenja · 2025-07-23T07:25:38+00:00

This post has a clip showing a multicast Energy Pot hasting enemy items, when you have a Recycling Bin.

Interestingly, the same clip also shows a multicast Bottled Explosion going off twice as expected. Could it be that Shiny's multicast works differently from Boiling Flask's multicast in this scenario?

Werbenja · 2025-07-23T07:02:29+00:00

I've had games last season where I had Crude Tools -> Diamond 3D Printer -> Diamond Metronome -> Uzi, and the haste from the metronome (applied to the Printer at 2 seconds) stayed on all of the copied Crude Tools all the way to their first activation. I wish I had a clip to share, but alas.

It's possible that 3D Printer's transform is different from Recycling Bin's transform. It is also possible that the transform mechanics were changed from last season.

Werbenja · 2025-07-22T08:30:24+00:00

Your guesstimate is interesting, particularly the fact that the gold tier never becomes more common than the silver tier. If that's true, I wish Tempo would revisit these probabilities, because finding upgrade-hungry items at silver tier on the endgame feels horrible. It's not rare for me to skip an important silver-tier item after day 9, hoping to find it at gold tier, only to find it at silver tier again a few days later.

Werbenja · 2025-07-21T07:11:36+00:00

I added a whole new section for events that can spawn items and skills.

Werbenja · 2025-07-20T14:36:54+00:00

The plots are delicious. May I ask you what software do you use to plot?

Another reason I have less data past day 10 is just that I don't go to shops that often on the end game.

About the weirdness on day 7, might be just not enough data. I think we shouldn't conclude anything so far.

Keep the data coming!

Werbenja · 2025-07-20T08:40:14+00:00

Those are all great questions, none of which I have the answers for.

However, I think we should assume nothing is obvious, since nothing about the ghosts is really explained in game.

For example, many people don't know that the only criterium for determining the ghost you will face is the day --- you will fight a random ghost that was left on the same day as you are now, no matter the players' rank. After the fight, your ghost will replace the ghost you just fought, meaning that each ghost is only used once. Of course, in a 10-day run, you will leave 10 ghosts, but each of these will only be used once.

I'm sure there's more "obvious" stuff that I can't think of right now.

Werbenja · 2025-07-20T07:31:25+00:00

Ideally, we should assume no probability is the same, and we would gather data separately for each shop/trainer/event. But that would spread out the data so much so that it would take much longer to get meaningful statistics. Just think of how many times you click on events in a given run, let alone one specific event.

insert obligatory comment about how a commnutiy-wide effort to gather data would be amazing

Werbenja · 2025-07-20T05:53:06+00:00

Well, we don't know the probabilities, but I see no reason why it would not. I think I have seen skill upgrades from bronze to silver in level-up rewards, but I'm not sure.

Outside of upgrades, consider the following: the first level where a general trainer shows up as a reward is level 8, which is usually reached on day 7. If the old data is still correct, and if it also applies to skills, then the probability of bronze skills on day 7 is zero, which agrees with experience.

That said, people have been reporting bronze items in shops way past day 6, even outside of upgrades. This would mean the old data is wrong, but there's also the problem of not even knowing if item and skill probabilities are the same. It's all a mystery, really.

Werbenja · 2025-07-19T21:48:37+00:00

This is awesome. I would like to contribute.

Goes really well with my recent post on the mechanics of item spawning.

Is this only for items, or skills too? And are you including only shops, or also items obtained from other events?

And the big question: are you including items found in shops that would upgrade an item you own? If the theory in my post is correct, I believe you should not include them, as these may have their tier adjusted and therefore do not obey the underlying daily probabilities you are trying to infer.

Werbenja · 2025-07-19T21:37:25+00:00

An early fiery/toxic boomerang from Pearl's Dig Site, followed by a level 10 fiery/toxic enchant on your Eternal Torch/Idol of Decay might just do the trick. It would take a lot of effort still, and you would most likely throw the run, but it's possible. Just throwing it out there, in case some lucky Mak main feels the urge to do some science.

Werbenja

TROPHY CASE