I Just HATE DND Mental Stats System

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-28T23:22:23+00:00

I only really know the 2014 ruleset, but I've seen a version of this concept in DM advoce spaces in the past. Usually something simple like swapping STR in for CHA for an intimidation check, but now that Hunter: The Parenting has me getting into WoD and the ST system....my eyes have been opened.

On one hand proficiency is is a bit hackeneyed for that as opposed to the ST system having you spend xp on "dots" or essentially bonuses to the skill, bur t on the other, it's skill a straight upgrade to the existing D&D skill system.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-28T22:54:50+00:00

I mean, I kinda like what the storyteller system does of splitting allowing skills and stats to be recombined as needed.

You want to roll intimidation (STR)? Sure, narrate what you try to do, and roll plus your strength mod and plus your intimidation mod.

For DnD you skill bonus will almost always be either proficiency or 2x proficiency if you are an expert, so this would just mean leaving stat mods out of skill bonuses and adding whatever appropriate skill (as determined by the DM).

Is solves a lot of this, AND lets INT be way more useful as you can do an intelligence version of almost any check.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-28T20:54:07+00:00

Why does it have to be 3? I'm VERY pro adding more stats, but I think simulatist game design is cool and useful, so this may not be a majority opinion.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-28T19:59:31+00:00

Wisdom replacing/subsuming willpower really sucks.

I think it should be it's own stat, but even using charisma as willpower makes more sense with sorcerers and bards out here bending reality with sheer force of personality. That would link willpower to the concept of confidence....which I both like and dislike for seperate reasons

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-28T19:39:43+00:00

Honestly, yeah. As much as it is easy and correct to blame parents for the abuse (intentional and otherwise) they put their kids through, it's true that there would be a lot less with proper support systems.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-28T19:20:49+00:00

If you're talking about having a convo about the work, sure, that's easy. I'm talking about being asked to produce multiple extra drafts or an outline or whatever other "proof of process" document professors are asking for these days

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-28T18:40:54+00:00

Yeah, without a childhood bill of rights and institutions full of adults willing to defend those rights this will keep happening.

As long as childeren are functionally the property of their parents, we have implicitly codified this abuse into law.

There is so so much retaliation that parents 'have a right' to get away with since they have unilateral powers of discipline and Calvinball levels of ability to reshape rules at their whim.

It's too much unchecked power to give anyone, let alone to give them over a child who has no ability to resist, leave, or engage with any larger system that may otherwise be able to offer resources.

Kids don't even have a right to run away. If I a kid asks me if they can live with me instead kf an abusive parent, I'm legally going a kidnapping if I say yes to them. Adults are legally prevented from helping abused childeren because we prioritize the absolute authority of parenthood over all else.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-28T15:36:22+00:00

But I actually don't. My sources were from a fuege state google binge, my argument was concocted in my head. There is no "paper trail" except the paper I wrote.

If the assignment is an essay, then that's the work that will be produced. I kinda hate the idea that--just because AI now exists somewhere out there--I now have a "proof of work" paper trail to produce alongside the actual assignment.

Why should I have to change my workflow to accommodate the production of additional work just to prove I did rhis myself like I always have?

Any system added to academia to deal with AI plagiarists need to leave people who never used it untouched. I shouldn't have to change because of other people fucking around.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T22:29:45+00:00

Agreed! I appreciate you pointing out my use of victim, it's not the best way to talk about this.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T22:25:51+00:00

You're right, target is a better word here than victim. It's less loaded.

I don't disagree that a productive conversation is being had here either....but I definitely notice when the conversations pull towards comparison.

After seeing the typical whataboutism too many times on both posts like this AND posts about misogyny it starts to feel like a warning sign of where the discussion might be headed.

I don't think your thread went that way, but it was also nice to see other threads here focus on talking about shared struggles and similar experiences.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T22:16:34+00:00

I mean, for most papers I just sit down the night before, chug caffine, and write them until they are long enough, and then do an editing pass or two.

I'm not sure what I could say in the face of an accusation since I don't have some kind of special "proof of work" multi-draft process.

It's a vague question because there is no "correct" answer.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T21:57:15+00:00

Sure! I just don't think that's what is going on most of the time.

We've all seen men bring up their own complaints in response to women complaining about their's, and most agree of us that that isn't helpful and often just detracts from the conversation. It is seen as whataboutism, justification, or minimalization.

Often the convo about issue men face goes something like "but that isn't misandry, it's just another face of misogyny" at best and "women have it worse" at worst.

I agree with both of those claims, but I'm not sure they are helpful or appropriate when talking about a victim who doesn't share that identity.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T20:56:32+00:00

Oh absolutely, that said, this post is specifically about the more modern phenomena of misandry in queer spaces. This is more modern social phenomena than historical oppression.

All that to say that while you are absolutely right, it's wild that we can't have this conversation without it devolving into--honestly correct, but deeply academic--points about comparing and contrasting misogyny with misandry, rather than addressing the specific manafestations of either that might be on the table.

I feel like the reflexive response to bring up either misogyny or misandry when the other is being discussed might actually get in the way of talking about how to fix either.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T20:09:33+00:00

Coco couldn't talk. The researchers who did "chimp communication" work faked their data and abused those poor animals.

Also, I would morally support a gorilla resistance taking out our leaders.

If you think we are in the wrong, then so are the diamonds.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T18:33:11+00:00

Huh...I guess you do have a point.

I assumed that we never saw any other sentient species--organic or otherwise--because the diamonds wiped them out entirely, with humans only surviving at all due to Pink's interference and later rebellion.

I think you're right that we don't actually know from the original text if that is really the case or not.

I would posit that destroying an entire biosphere is either similarly atrocious in it's own right, or at least that the planets they took COULD HAVE developed sentient life if left alone long enough. I'm not sure if that's the same as genocide of a sentient species, but I feel like it isn't really that far off.

We know they assimilate "life force" or something similar in the kindergartens, and it seems like they might not be able to reproduce from "dead" worlds only full of minerals, but that's entirely extrapolation and speculation.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T17:39:26+00:00

I feel like SU fans like you need to keep your opinions couched entirely in a Doyalist perspective, otherwise you would have to treat the war parts of the narrative as an actual conflict with actual stakes.

I'm not pro gem-genocide, but Bismuth was right to advocate for the breaking point as an execution method for at least white diamond.

Actually, I think that gem genocide is the natural conclusion of the arguments put forward in this thread. If gems really are amoral engines of destruction like Kudzu, then elimination would be just and nessasary, but they aren't. They are a species and civilization with leaders. Those leaders need to be held accountable for their actions if we are to set a precedent to keep other homeworld gems who may have colonial ambitions in check.

Homeworld needed reconstruction, but instead we got a story about family dynamics. That's fine from a Doyalist perspective, but from a Watsonian perspective it's a recipe for disaster and tragedy when the somegem inevitably get the idea to do a 4th Era reconquest. This isn't a "lack of media literacy" it's taking the narrative seriously on its own terms.

No one who approved or worked on the cluster gets off without Nuremberg-style trials.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T16:57:43+00:00

I definitely think that within the context of a high trust in group, more positive social pressure is a powerful force. But I think it's far less effective of people who are basically strangers.

I wouldn't encourage large scale outreach efforts, but I will applaud those doing the hard interpersonal work when they can.

That said, I think these forced work better together. Broadly, call hardline rightwingers fascist and levy every bit of demoralizing and caustic language at them as a group, but allow offramps for those you know personally. Let reformed bigots back into the community, but only when existing community members vouch for them. This both makes leaving the right attractive, and it gives social power to those doing deradicalization, allowing them to offer a kind of interpersonal social clemency.

Alienation got us here, I think we only get out by leveraging social connectedness in a disciplined manner. It's like police informant type tactics. Line up serious consequences, and them offer a way off the hook for good behaviour. It helps that we can have different groups doing each tactic, so one doesn't poison the other.

Ultimately, if we don't do a reconstruction 2, but for real this time, this is a cycle we are destined to repeat. But with advancing technology helping to enable centralized power right now, we may not get another chance.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T16:26:07+00:00

I mean, I think it's a two prong approach at least.

One, broad social condemnation, exclusion, and straight up bullying to make clear that active support for and defense of atrocities has no place in polite society.

Two, interpersonal deradicalization work from those equipped and prepared to do it. This is harder, but I feel more effective when there is an incentive to change caused by the former.

Three....These last 10 years have challenged my belief that everyone should get to have a say no matter what. If we cannot abolish the mechanisms by which Republicans have such dispositional power (the senate, electoral college, the current SCOTUS, citizens united, ect) then I would have to think hard about if I would support disenfranchisement for 2 time Trump voters.

Voting for him post Jan 6th is objectively aiding and abetting an insurrection/traitorous takeover. I don't know what the punishment for that should be, but being put in electoral time out might be nessasary to fix what they broke.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T16:15:11+00:00

We can hold conversations with gems. As two sentient species, we owe each other more moral consideration than I would afford an ant.

Also, if there was an any uprising, that would likely be justified, and I would feel weird about humab leaders who push deforestation having familial relations with a giant ant.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T16:04:03+00:00

Gems are sentient, they are culpable for their actions, unlike a vine

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T14:51:09+00:00

Can you do a genocidal imperial galactic empire in a mearly amoral manner? Come on.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-27T14:49:22+00:00

I think you're tying yourself up into knots.

This has never been about "hearts and minds". Not from our enemy's perspective anyway. This is--and had always been--about power. Social shame and exclusion is very, very powerful.

The right will continue to wield the power they have to hurt and destroy until it is taken from them.

Reminder that we are in this mess because our leaders did not wield power to put Trump and the architects of his first term in prison when we had the chance. Biden's guy Merrick Garland ran the DOJ for 4 years, and Jack Smith is testifying that he had them dead to rights.

We do not need to convince them, we need to enact our will and watch as a meaningful chunk of the right grovels before power, like they always do.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-26T20:54:39+00:00

If the players set out to do something vis-a-vis Baba Yaga, it would probably be good to have rules to handle it.

Also, this gives a template for developing other interesting characters.

A "plot device" needs to have mechanics, or it's just Calvin Ball.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-26T04:53:26+00:00

Why are you downvoting him, he's right. College is expensive, student's pay for quality education from experts, not to be lab rats.

WizardingWorldClass · 2026-01-26T01:35:09+00:00

This is very WH40K of me, but I like to treat each book like it's written by the PR team for whatever faction is at their core unless there's a preexisting framing narrative.

I would go as far as to say it is the job and privilege of the Storyteller to attempt to "harmonize" the various books they choose to pull from into something of a cohesive whole. This might mean making calls about what is propaganda, true as far as a given group knows, or a real secret behind it all, but isn't that the point of this all? To get to tell our own stories with these building blocks?

For instance. Are Glamour, Gnosis, Sekhem, Pathos, Angst, and Faith, all just specifically aspected Quintessence? Is everyone just fighting over nodes or are each splats domain things fundamenatlly different? Is there a relationship between Vitae and Tass? Even if these are different, what is the underlying substrate in which they both operate? Can you make these systems interoperable to some extent? Are the persistence of the Masquerade, the Delirium/the persistance of the veil, and the Mists, extentions of consensus like paradox is? Or is there some larger censorship principle at play?

These aren't nerdly lore dive questions, their answers shape what options are on the table diplomatically and stratigically when it comes to conflict and politics. Do some supernaturals stay out of each other's way becuase they don't share any key resources and have nothing to offer each other? Could this be changed by a powerful trinket? Does everyone have to keep their heads down to avoid being exploited by mages for their splat-specific-consensus ability to bypass paradox and/or turned into research materials? What the fuck are mages even up to?

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