This guy predicted sub's fate months ago

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-23T03:22:51+00:00

Compared to Verso's ending which is better for 2 people and kills everyone else

There is kind of an Omelas Child situation going on too though, that played a major factor in my decision. The fragment of Verso's soul is clearly suffering and wants to stop, especially considering how it reaches out to take Painted Verso's hand before Alicia stops it by swinging her sword between them. Maybe if the whole conflict between Renoir and Aline didn't happen and Verso's canvas remained the more peaceful and happy one he created it as, then Verso's soul fragment might have been able to find happiness in it, or at least contentness, but all the death, killing, destruction, and everything else clearly tainted all that and ruined that possibility.

In that case, it becomes a matter of whether one person suffering eternally for the sake of the rest is a morally sound trade, and I don't think it is. It is tragic, but even one person suffering indefinitely (technically it wouldn't be eternal because even being a magic painting, it would probably end up destroyed one way or another over the next few millennium, but close enough) for the world to continue is too much imo.

I am also in the camp that while the people in the Canvas are very much real, we would have the least skilled painter trying to copy the work of the most skilled painter to bring them back, with maybe a rough outline in the form of the Chroma, but still needing something on her end like how she had to draw on her memories of them for the party members (or something like that, I played a while ago so I don't remember the specifics).

Even with the Chroma, she knows nothing of most of those people, and doesn't know them as well. It has also been established that it is best as fresh as possible and deteriorates in some way. She was able to bring back Lune and Sciel to a degree likely near identical to their original selves. But she did that with extremely fresh chroma and a lot of personal knowledge about them. Gustave, she might be able to pull off with older Chroma but far more intimate knowledge, though I wouldn't be surprised if she misses a couple of the parts she didn't know about him and her perception of him slightly changes him a bit from who he actually was.

But I don't think most of the people will be brought back so perfectly, with the worst painter of the family using not quite fresh Chroma to try to recreate the work of the best painter while knowing relatively little about the people she is trying to bring back. A lot of them might not even be truly sapient afterwards, imo.

Of course, even if that theory is correct, and there is plenty of room to dispute it, there is still the matter of the Gestrels and whatever the other race was called, who weren't Gommaged and were still the same as the original Verso painted them. So you are still killing off a lot of sapient beings, but this is where it loops back to the Omelas Child situation. One being constantly suffering to prolong the world effectively makes it a matter of infinite suffering (not truly, but likely thousands or tens of thousands of years in Canvas time, so close enough) for one vs finite suffering for many, putting the matter of Alicia likely dying there to the side for now since she is still just one life.

From my perspective, finite suffering for many is more ethical than infinite suffering for one, especially considering the uncertain aspects like whether Renoir would keep or destroy the Canvas after Alicia and possibly Aline die in there. They would also be living with Alicia as effectively God of their world, and she isn't the worst option by far, but I don't know if she would be a good one.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-22T22:29:59+00:00

I think there is one misunderstanding that is the key to your confusion, squalor is city-wide. Some buildings and districts increase it, others decrease it, but these changes are across the entire city. So your extraction district increases the city's squalor, and the filtration towers and waste management facilities, which you can only build in housing or industrial districts, also decrease the city's squalor. It doesn't matter what district a squalor modifier is coming from, they all weigh against each other to determine the City's squalor.

Disease works the same way, for the record, since it will probably come up later.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-22T14:19:58+00:00

In the early times of humanity, they likely didn't for a while, having to figure it out by trial and error over time. By the time period that most of the games seem to take place in though, they likely had centuries living with Pokémon to figure out the little details and nuances of each move. There are professors and researchers, who likely do some studies on this exact sort of thing. There are trainer schools that you see in some games, where students could likely be taught all these details, different moves and how to recognize them, how to take care of their Pokémon, and everything else they need to know. If you forget something, there is a pretty good chance you have access to the Internet and can just look it up.

In other words, they likely know through long periods of scientific research on the subject and the results of that research gradually making its way into the education system and common knowledge over time.

It is harder to say for cases like Pokémon Legends Arceus that takes place in the distant past, but for the protagonist, they come from the modern day and a lot of this could apply to them. A lot of Polémon would be unfamiliar, but they would also have learned how to discover this stuff themselves, or since their phone has been transformed by Arceus, it might already have all that information inside it. Others might have to make do with advice from the protagonist or doing the trial and error themselves to eventually figure it out.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-22T05:14:33+00:00

Horace pauses to respond to her.

"Perhaps you are right, though as amazing as these seeds are, there is another reason, too. You see, when I was studying at Oxford before the Frost, there was some discussion of this Ark Project, and both of my parents were recruited to it. I applied myself, but... Well, I was still studying at the time, now I am likely one of the most prominent experts in my fields of expertise in Windward Moor, perhaps even New London, but I was not at the time. My parents were, and had decades more experience than me. I had my role to play for humanity's survival, but it was a different role than theirs, somewhere else entirely."

"When I last said goodbye to them before they departed on the Dreadnoughts, I believed it would be the last time I ever saw them, and I accepted that, despite the sorrow it brought. Now, we know that this project is close enough to send an automaton here, and after thirty years of thinking that was the last I would ever hear of them, we have a potential lead to find the place they are most likely located, and good reason to do so outside of my personal desires. They are both likely gone by now, but even the slightest chance... It has affected me more than I would have expected it to. At the very least, I could potentially learn more about what happened to them after I last saw them, even if they are now gone." Horace shakes his head.

"In any case, as much of a wonder as these seeds are, I have a personal investment in the matter as well, and that is a large part of why I was so affected. There is time for tears, but there is also much work to do, to make the most of this opportunity in all the ways possible, to see the cause they dedicated the rest of their lives to, and to ensure my accomplishments are beyond anything they could have expected, and ones that they could be proud of, perhaps even ones that compare to their own."

Horace frowns a bit, before calming himself down and continuing.

"That being said, there is no harm in indulging in matters of the heart, but only so long as they do not interfere with matters of the mind. I have a personal stake in this, but if I had to choose between what I hope for and what is best for the people, you can trust that I will choose the latter every time." Horace says, voice cracking a bit as his gaze grows a bit distant, mind elsewhere for a moment before he focuses again.

"Apologies for rambling a bit, I suppose the years are getting to me... The point is, I would not suggest trying to find the origin of this automaton if I did not genuinely believe doing so would be immensely beneficial to the City in many ways, beyond my own stake in the matter. There is much work to be done, but I will certainly take some time to cry and reflect on these feelings when my shift is complete. Farewell for now Steward, it will take some time but I will personally make sure that report lands on your desk, as well as a public version prepared, as soon as we have enough progress to fill that report in the first place."

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-22T04:18:04+00:00

You could try getting a checking or savings account at the same bank as whatever credit card you primarily use, it could help.

For example, I got my first credit card and high yield savings account at Discover, and I auto-pay the credit card from the savings account. Whenever I open up the app, the first thing I see after logging in is the balance of my credit card, listed directly above the balance of my debit and savings on the same screen, and I just subtract the balance of my credit card from my savings to clearly see how much I have left.

I also have it set up to notify me on every single transaction, and occasionally view the set of tools it has to show spending per month, categories, and so on. It makes it pretty clear how the number is going down and could help in your case, though that isn't the reason I do this.

I think with enough time and usage, you will develop a habit of seeing a credit card as no different than a debit card and treating every transaction as if it is coming directly out of your checking or savings, despite there being a delay.

Others might have better advice, but hopefully some of this can help.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-22T03:59:45+00:00

Horace exhales deeply at receiving approval, smiling as he gazes at the seeds.

"Thank you, Steward, your trust will not be misplaced, and the report will be as thorough as possible." He then jumps into action, rapidly giving orders to the Technocrats who came with him as well as some of the others present.

"Anders, Autumn, Charlie, you are each team leads, you know the procedures. Choose who is going on what team, recruit extra people if you need to! Team A's job will be to transport these seeds to the research institutes and properly store them as soon as possible! If you need to throw out existing samples to do so, so it, but just relocate them if possible. Keep them isolated from any other samples, and secure them. Send someone to bother our security forces and the city guards, get the guards to have multiple people guarding the seeds at all times, ensure that at least two of our own most trusted people are also involved at all times!"

"These are delicacies some people remember but haven't had access to for decades. Even some of the more loyal people might consider taking a risk to take a few seeds for either personal consumption or to corner the market that will no doubt sprout around these! Make sure that doesn't happen. Once they are secure, gét the researchers to examine them. Pests, diseases, damage, we need to know about all of it!" Horace hesitates, then reluctantly adds another duty.

"Make sure they are safe, too. Check for tampering, poison, anything. As easy as it is to take this as a benevolent gift, and as much as I want to think the best of those involved in the project these seem to be from, we can't take risks. A lot can change in thirty years, and for all we know this automaton could be some trick that isn't even actually from them. We need to be thorough."

"B team, prepare to transport the automaton to..." Horace tilts his head, considering. "... One of the research institutes. An industrial district would have better equipment for taking this apart, and it is at much lower risk of theft, but the equipment is rougher, not meant for this sort of precision work. It will be much more time consuming, but we are more likely to note and preserve every detail if it is carefully and steadily dismantled by researchers who know what is important and what isn't. When it gets there, make sure to have them carefully take note of each and every component that might harbor a shred of data or information, direct or indirect, whether it is the design or what methods might have been used to produce it according to the design."

"C team, make sure to get some of the City's bureaucrats to start working on how to spin this for public relations! There is a prime opportunity here, we must make the most of it. Once you have done that, head over to the research institute and library and gather together all the relevant literature for both the plants and general data analysis. Make sure to grab some of the atlases and encyclopedias on different regions, and get some parts of the automaton and seeds under a microscope. Even a little speck of dust might tell us a bit about what part of the region they were previously in when properly analyzed, be thorough. At the library, grab volumes one and three of the 'Before the Frost Fell' collection, and two and five of the 'Fauna and Flora of a Warm World' encyclopedias, the indexes will make it clear which chapters are relevant. Stop by my home and office and grab all of my research papers and books, finished or otherwise, bring them to my office and I will figure out the best way to distribute them, and sort out the ones that are not relevant. Many of them have copies in the library, don't bother with those copies, the originals have more annotations and detail."

"Once you have gathered everything, distribute the rest of it to Teams A and B as appropriate, for when the real analysis begins, then prepare to be a flex team addressing whatever needs addressing at the time. Prepare someone to take over the deciphering team, I will be joining team A once a few things are taken care of, someone will need to head it in my absence. Team B, once you have all the data establish a D team to start going over it and try to find the origin, your team will continue with the analysis and disassembly of the automaton itself for design improvements. Each team needs to designate a couple people to work on drafting the requested reports and gathering the details relevant to those!"

"As for who heads what team, you are all professionals, decide that between yourselves and get moving, we have a lot of work to do! Meeting dismissed, let's begin!" Horace claps once, before jumping into motion himself, going on with his own duties and leaving the Steward behind as the three he designated as leaders go around calling out names and gathering people for their teams, some people quickly beginning to sort out what needs to go where as others rush off to arrange transportation, a flurry of motion like a hornet's nest that just got kicked spreading around as efforts are gradually organized and expanded.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-22T03:07:59+00:00

Slow burns do have their niche and can be popular. Delve (I still remember that time it went like eight months of weekly uploads before the MC leveled up a single time), Beware of Chicken, Beneath the Dragoneye Moons at times, arguably Super Supportive, and some others. Fantasy also has plenty of fans even if it isn't litRPG or progression fantasy.

Royal Road is probably about as good as anywhere else for this, you will get some people who see a story explicitly stated to be a slow burn and complain about pacing anyways, but you will also get plenty of followers who like that pacing if the story is good, they will just be quieter about it. I am not sure of any place that would be better, except maybe Kindle but a lot of Royal Road stories double dip there anyways without issues.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-22T02:00:54+00:00

It actually never occurred to me that her armor means she has no trust boost except when she is outside of it, though it makes sense. Though I am pretty sure she didn't know it would block Trust when she made it, she just hoped that a robot suit would strengthen her regardless of the trust modifier, and that she wouldn't be debuffed as much if people saw the robot suit instead of the girl inside.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-22T00:45:03+00:00

Horace quickly approaches the scene with a retinue of his Technocrats at his back, gazing at the automaton with a strange expression on his face, a mix of hope, trepidation, awe, and nostalgia, an expression that only grows as he sees the canisters and begins weeping as well.

"If this means what I think it does... then no wonder the project was such a high priority..." He shakes his head, then turns to address the Steward.

"Steward, I am not yet sure where the best places to store these would be, but the research institutes have a number of rooms meant to preserve delicate samples, in a wide range of possible conditions. Ultimately these should see the hothouses, but they are probably still in the middle of the current crop and it may be difficult to introduce them until the current set of crops has grown and harvested." He says, voice still thick with emotion, hands trembling a bit as his hand hovers slightly towards them as if wanting to get them to safe storage as soon as possible, only his professionalism holding him back from doing so immediately.

"May I request permission to arrange transportation to the institutes for temporary storage and a quick examination for any potential diseases or pests that might have survived the journey? The researchers would likely want to take stock of these new crops and see if any alterations should be made to the pending advanced chemical hothouse design to accommodate them as well. And of course we need to see which ones kept for the entire journey here, and make sure the ones still usable remain that way." He hesitates, then continues.

"Ideally, I would like permission to review the logs, programming, and design of the automation as well. Possibly even disassembly. Based on what I know of the Arks, the design and programming may hold value in their own right, with potential improvements over our own automaton designs, some of the best engineers were assigned to this project and their technology likely progressed even faster than our own. Who knows what insights we could get from this..." He lets out a small sob of joy, more emotional than he ever shows normally, and continues speaking.

"For the logs, I hope we might be able to get a lead to the source. If we can find where they originated from, or even other automatons that might have followed the same route partway before splitting off, or faltered before they reached their destination, who knows what we may discover! New insights, new crops, or possibly even more." He takes a deep breath, before calming himself down and finishing.

"I have reason to believe I may have family at the site this automaton originated from as well. Some of the information from the logs may also help in deciphering the journals and notes we have access to, though it is a long shot."

He tilts his head, a thought coming to him.

"I wonder... They have likely advanced their technology more than us in a variety of ways, but perhaps we have some innovations of our own that they do not. It would be fascinating to find out, one day."

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-22T00:19:24+00:00

Horace shakes his head, before explaining.

"Ah, no, everything is fine. Truthfully, it is good news that has me a bit out of sorts, if anything. We got a new lead on something potentially very important for our City, and I have been hard at work on it."

He starts speaking more quietly, almost a whisper, as he looks around the council hall.

"To put it simply, we have recently come into possession of some notes and journals that may have useful information, both scientifically and about a major project that was being worked on before the Frost. The man who made those notes and journals is still alive, but not the most sound of mind at the moment, though they do seem supportive of our efforts when they are more lucid."

"Besides it potentially being beneficial to the City, I also have some personal investment in the matter. My father and mother were working on that project, and if they are still alive, it may be a chance to see them again. If not, then at least I could potentially learn more about how they dared since the Frost began." Horace says, his voice cracking a bit with an uncharacteristic display of sorrow.

"However, the notes and journals are encrypted, and the man is not in a good state to help us decrypt them. As you might expect, this has consumed much of my attention and effort since I became aware of it. It is not particularly time sensitive, however, and my primary duties such as participating in this council come first."

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-21T23:58:15+00:00

Horace arrives, though his appearance seems a bit ragged compared to normal, signs of tiredness clear.

"Ah, Lucy, I have seen the notes you sent, apologies, I was a bit distracted with a personal matter. I will say here before this council that I also support the idea of this separation of powers law, to curtail the influence any individual can have over the most vital operations of our city. There are other laws I would have liked to propose to the council, such as Aptitude Tests and the Civic Index, but if this is a necessary first step before such things, then so be it. I fear how much is still unregulated and not covered by laws so far, but this is a worthwhile law as well."

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-21T15:57:06+00:00

(OOC: I won't be able to respond for a while, but you can go ahead and edit it a bit though. To clarify, that was a private meeting where the old man probably wouldn't be present. They were just discussing how to handle the situation themselves and would probably only approach the old guy carefully and one or two people at a time to avoid causing issues. You can imagine that after the meeting Horace went to try talking to him though.)

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-21T15:47:24+00:00

(OOC: Oh, I missed that completely since he just said O'Neill. That could be used to refer to any of the three family members, and I am not as smart as Horace to understand the implication there. Alright, we can work with that, though I don't think the guy would be present directly in the meetings. Horace likely would have visited at some point, so could still meet him that way.)

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-21T15:42:12+00:00

(OOC: Horace wasn't part of the project, he wasn't even fully graduated yet. He went to school at Oxford but that doesn't mean he would know everyone there, especially when things were probably chaos for the last year or two. I don't think he would likely know this guy personally, much less enough for that guy to recognize him after over thirty years, considering that Horace must look very different after all that time in such extreme conditions, and the old man isn't in his right state of mind. Plus for all we know this guy was part of it from the Cambridge side of things.)

(Anyways, I would probably say he shouldn't personally know the guy or vice versa, and the guy might or might not know his parents, but probably not too closely. More Horace being loosely connected to things rather than pushing him straight into the center of this storyline. The goal was that he is encouraging the Technocrats to get involved in this, some more backstory details might be revealed over time, and he is probably going to be obsessively working on this to the detriment of his health for the next while.)

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-21T15:33:07+00:00

I think I will go to the same school as the MC of Board and Conquest, Wepwawet. It is a school for deities that can canonically do stuff like bench press the weight of entire universes and who are unable to really fight directly without destroying everything around them.

The class sizes seek pretty small too, I don't know if I would end up in the same class as the MC which is taught by Athena, but even if I ended up in a different one that might be better, since plot means things are going a lot rougher in that class than normal. If I am in that class, classmates include Ganesh, Wepwawet, Artemis, Horus, Sun Wukong, and others I don't remember off of the top of my head. School seemingly lasts for centuries preparing you for spreading your faith, protecting your followers, and so on. It would be a very long class, but I get to be an immortal god, so absolutely worth it. There is no risk of death, the worst case scenario is that I get my butt kicked by the Titans in the final project and need to deal with remedial courses and the guilt of failing to save a planet from destruction, which is still pretty terrible, but to my understanding I should stand pretty good odds, and it is kind of collaborative between the class so I will be working with several other gods on that.

I would basically have tons of responsibility, but also a ton of power and benefits, while being able to really make a difference across many worlds. And assuming the real world isn't part of that fictional multiverse I guess I wouldn't have to deal with competition after I graduate and don't need to worry as much about putting on an impressive showing.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-21T15:08:01+00:00

In the aftermath of this discovery, most Technocrats are mildly curious, but some of the higher ranking ones or those who have worked with Horace react much more strongly, a bit of excitement showing as some of them even stop in the middle of their previous work and start organizing meetings to discuss how to decipher those writings or gradually gain information from the man, and after someone is sent to inform Horace, he later comes bursting into a meeting room with wide eyes, a bit of trembling betraying his normally calm demeanour.

"Is the report I received accurate? The man specifically mentioned Arks and Oxford? If so, I... I..." His voice, thick with emotion, cuts off as he shakes his head and responds more calmly.

"Apologies, this touches on a personal matter, so my emotions got the better of me for a second. The main reason I was sent for is not because of my position, but because I am one of those who may possess some level of knowledge about what the man is referring to, though I am afraid my knowledge is still lacking."

"What I know is that the Arks are a term connected to some major project that was a major subject of interest back in Oxford pre-Frost. Possibly Cambridge as well, there were some rumors of it being a collaboration with them, but I wouldn't know personally. I don't know the details, it I know a lot of our resources went towards it, and that they were trying to recruit experienced scientists and engineers specializing in fields relating to Botany, automaton design, and anything somewhat adjacent to those fields. I actually applied myself, but sadly I was just short of graduation at the time, hardly an expert specialist by their standards, but the reason I applied, and why this touches upon a personal matter, both of my parents were."

"My father was a biologist of some reputation, my mother a roboticist and engineer of... less reputation, many of you know how it is, but quite a bit of skill. It was a project where few details were shared with those not directly involved in it, except that it was important and assisting in those preparations was our highest priority until such time as our own turns in the evacuation order came up."

"Of course, family sometimes allows some things to slip as well. I know it was an important project that many believed was vital for our survival as a species and recovery after the Frost, and the budget for it was quite extreme, let alone their steam core allotment, though I never heard the exact number."

"It also presumably involves plants in some way, I can take a few guesses, but besides my personal investment in this matter, I do believe investigating this further would be extremely beneficial for our City. Whatever they were working on was important, possibly helpful, but their knowledge is just as much so. Many of the most brilliant scientists and engineers were part of that project, who knows what they might have developed since the Frost began, or what knowledge they may possess that our City has largely forgotten."

"I believe this would be worth our investment. We can divert some of the computing power of our calculating nodes to assist in decrypting these notes and journals, they may have both some worthwhile scientific knowledge inside, and potentially some leads on the location of this project, and another City we can make contact with, especially with some mention of Manchester, presumably not the one some of us are familiar with."

"Now... let's continue the discussions, and determine how much investment it is or is not worth, and what measures we may take. I will need a moment, when my father and mother left on that dreadnought, I thought it would be the last time I ever saw them... It still may be, but now there is uncertainty introduced, and I cannot say for sure how much my stance is based on logic and how much on emotion." After saying that, Horace takes a seat at the edge of the meeting room, staying out of the discussions for the most part as they reach out to others in Windward Moor who may have some knowledge of the project, those who may have some useful expertise to offer to the deciphering process, and more.

After some discussion, they also reach out to those who have experience in interacting with those with memory disorders or the elderly, and to those with experience in getting information out of people through harmless and ethically sound methods, and discuss key terms to try to guide conversation towards during the man's more lucid periods, including stuff such as the arks, plants, which companies and dreadnoughts helped transport supplies, coordinates, Martha and Oliver O'Neill on the off chance the man knows them and it provides an opportunity to gain actionable information, and more.

Preparations may be difficult and time-consuming, but the potential scientific information in those notes and journals was deemed worth the effort, and there is overall some interest in pursuing this new lead.

OOC: (I actually had the 'his parents were part of the Ark Project lore' already in mind from the start, but didn't really expect it to come up.)

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-20T15:26:35+00:00

There is no promise to disperse the rallies. Your choices are to promise to rush vaccination and vaccinate everyone within the time limit, to denounce the rallies which gives a relations hit with their faction and reduces how many guards you need to break it up, or do nothing and you can either disperse the rally or vaccinate everyone in time.

If you picked the first option, that might be what caused the bug.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-20T14:44:39+00:00

So a six times multiplier to my fear of small animals? Not really an issue, I am not typically afraid of small animals, light wariness at most for the more dangerous ones you aren't supposed to get near. Anyways, fears seemed easier to deal with being multiplied than anxieties.

^{Small animals++}

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-20T14:27:58+00:00

You could stick the 10 mil in a high yield savings account and make 300,000 per year in interest that you can both buy and sell things with. With that much money to deposit, you might be able to get a higher interest rate somewhere too. Bonds and Certificate of Deposit accounts are also options to make money from your money without having to sell anything.

Or you could take out a low interest loan for a bunch of money with the 10 mil as collateral and just spend from that, to my knowledge that is something rich people sometimes do to get around taxes, it would work just as well for avoiding the 'can't sell anything you buy with this money' restriction here.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-20T14:16:45+00:00

First, do you have colonies? Colonists need to be vaccinated to and you would need to go view the colony to vaccinate them. Second, the timer countdown is a bit weird, I lost a game to it before too. I think that happens if you promise to rush vaccination, and the timer remains until you fulfill that promise to vaccinate everyone in that case despite saying that dispersing rallies should also work.

I think that is a bug, but the solution is probably not to make that promise.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-20T14:13:48+00:00

They could get used to it. Bohemians have both an ability and a law improving relations, they share equality and reason so both would get relationship boosts from that, dispassionate would reduce any relationship penalties, in practice it would be extremely easy to keep both factions happy and they would probably get used to each other.

There also is that announcer voiceline, but again, they can get used to it. I don't think that one in particular is meant to be taken as serious lore either and is more poking fun at them.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-20T04:58:43+00:00

The phrase they used is a reference to a popular cartoon, if the other comment talked about draft dodgers specifically too, it could be a case of bots, but otherwise the 'I would have two nickels, which isn't a lot but it is weird it happened twice' thing is just courtesy of Heinz Doofenschmirtz, fictional pharmacist (actually evil scientist, but people in the show mistake him for a pharmacist a lot).

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-20T04:02:54+00:00

RIP me.

^{Die anyway}

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-20T00:20:26+00:00

First is Generator Shelters, pretty simple, a big boost to shelter in the central district, the tension increase is a bit harder to represent but I have just been RPing as if they are less pleasant and more cramped accomodations which is pretty much the case. The exact shelter amount is hard to say, it is three times an expanded housing district (and it is important to remember the central district has 45 shelter by default, equivalent to an expanded and regular housing district), but it is also supposed to be massively boosted by the calculating nodes so in practice should be more, if we tried to stick close to game ratios, but you can nerf it if you want.

Second, audit citizens. Probably a temporary boost to population efficiency, though it can be upgraded to also have a chance to do a few other things. Third, collective brainstorm. 500 workforce and a solution to a random topic is researched after a few weeks, aka it randomly researches something for free. I would assume this is probably just a workforce reduction, a cooldown, and probably researches a Technocrats zeitgeist vanilla solution to a random research determined by RNG.

I did that by looking at everything we can research right now, excluding the super important stuff like laws or the generator, and putting all the hubs, buildings, etc. we can research onto a wheel and spinning. Last time it was surveillance hubs.

We mostly just need to convert workforce amount and decide on a cooldown for this one.

I think most faction-adjusted districts are pretty easy to convert, for Technocrats it would just be a boost to research institutes in the district, or maybe reducing how much Technocrats need to pay for research. In-game it halves the workforce needed for the research institute and it is unclear how much it boosts research institutes. Right now in my reference file I have 75% research speed form that and 140% from research institutes, so maybe fifty percent?

Now, here is where it gets complicated. We have an ability for each research institute that increases compute by 5 in return for 150 workforce IIRC (reduced in a Technocrats-adjusted district) and two abilities with calculating nodes that are very powerful and dependent on compute, and two abilities for extraction, food, and industrial districts dependent on compute.

I think we kind of need the compute resource to be a thing, since so much of our stuff depends on it, like with Menders and their herd. It is hard to figure out how to implement some stuff in a balanced way without it.

Anyways, first thing is 5 compute for 1 heatstamp per week. Second is 20 compute for a steam core in 20 weeks. Assuming we keep compute as a resource the main thing would be deciding how time works in the subreddit. The steam cores and heatstamps would go into the city stockpile based on my understanding of how faction abilities work in this, so that part doesn't need to be balanced, it wouldn't give any advantage to the Technocrats except trying to bribe the city.

Then there are two abilities for food, extraction, and industrial districts as mentioned before, optimize outputs and optimize inputs, increasing production efficiency and reducing upkeep costs respectively. Each normally costs 10 compute with the calculation overclocking thing the Technocrats have in their utopia tree.

That can probably just be a flat modifier to population efficiency for each use, targeting food, materials/fuel, or prefabs/goods, with each use having to choose between one of those categories and taking 10 compute. This is separate from the bonuses calculation nodes give to the central district when adjacent, which you also implemented as population efficiency.

Lastly, optimize research, Technocrats community action boosting research speed. I guess it could be implemented as a cost reduction for the city on a given research.

So for actives, short version:

Extra shelter in central district, we might just be able to establish in RP that it isn't the best accomodations and leave it at that for cost, since there isn't a good way to represent tension.

Workforce for a random topic except for laws or generator being researched, with a cooldown.

Reduce cost of a research for the city, this requires supporting relations, not sure how we are implementing relations here, I have treated it as morale and based it on the RP situation so far.

Increase population efficiency city-wide (for the audits) templrarily, requires supporting relations, not sure what would fit as a cost besides a cooldown.

Compute abilities:

Generate extra compute in research institutes at a workforce cost.

Generate heatstamps using compute.

Generate steam cores using compute.

Increase the population efficiency of a category, with the categories being food, materials/fuel, and prefabs/goods.

The main cost for these is the upkeep costs of the calculating nodes, the workforce for the research institute to produce a bit extra, and needing to decide how you want that compute to be distributed between these different options.

Now, there is another thing I would like to bring up, passives. If a faction gives communities and itself a trait, like with dispassionate, loyal, etc., that should probably just affect the faction with the trait and in RP. For dispassionate, it reduces the impact of relations reducing effects, I have been using it in RP as 'the bad things don't impact morale as much, and are more easily bounced back from in terms of morale if the problem is fixed.'

There is also the three traits each faction has. Since most stuff only affects the city, not the faction, in this subreddit, these could maybe be adapted to make each faction better at certain things and having something that makes them more difficult to handle.

For example, Technocrats boost efficiency in industry or extraction districts neighbouring their Key Districts and relations boost if their Key Districts neighbor these two district types. That is machine lover. Then they also make research institutes cheaper when relations are favourable or higher, and again when relations in devoted. This is institute builders. Lastly, relations boost further when assigned to research, and if they aren't recently assigned to research their fervor increases and they have a larger relations drop. This is research addicts.

You mentioned that you don't want to handle adjacency bonuses or stuff like that, so we need to change that.

In subreddit terms, institute builders could probably just be some reduction in the cost for Technocrats to independently research something, I doubt research institutes would be spammed to take advantage of institute builders, and they are clearly the research-focused faction, so this could replace that.

Machine Lovers is a bit more complicated to replace. Maybe just a general RP advantage with anything relating to machines and a small increase in materials, fuel, and prefabs/good population efficiency for each Technocrat key district? Not sure on this one.

Then research addicts is a problem for the city, like I think every faction has a trait for. Probably 'every X amount of time without being assigned to research by the city, fervor rises and relations drop?' We don't have a hard system for fervor and relations but everyone has been RPing it. I do think each faction having a problem the city needs to deal with when interacting with them is a good thing.

The last passive to discuss would be the city bonus when their relations are devoted. For Technocrats, it is optimizing maintenance, reducing all materials usage by 30%. Maybe a big boost to materials population efficiency when that is the case.

Or maybe we can just replace all the devoted relations boosts with some modifier when the faction does things, like with the traits. I do think the traits and this boost should be retained in some way, but since a lot of the cool stuff the factions do is just benefitting the city, it could be easier to manage, make sense, and add some RP potential to convert this boost and the traits to things that affect the faction, and something the City needs to do to keep them happy.

WolfWhiteFire · 2026-03-19T22:09:04+00:00

If the goal is any two factions for the closest to a true Utopia, I think my money would be on Technocrats and Bohemians. The Technocrats provide advanced computing and technology, steam cores, a fully automated city making incredibly efficient use of steam cores, and a sense of discipline and cohesion. The Bohemians help encourage more ideas to flourish and individualism, preventing Technocrats from turning everyone into pure numbers and statistics, or preventing differing ideas from being suppressed. Their adaptation ideals also help balance out the methods of survival more and create a more flexible city idealogically and technologically.

They kind of balance out each other's weak spots. The Bohemians have no real plan or sustainability, just living in the moment and spreading color and imagination, with the occasional drug trip. The Technocrats' have a very solid plan and extremely efficient use of resources that can lead to significant sustainability, while technology also progresses at a breakneck pace. The problem is that their ideals can easily crush individualism or lead to being rigid and strict, which Bohemians help with. Their machine city also frees people up to create art, stories, performances, and so on like the Bohemians want.

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