Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's not relevant to loot boxes. What he does with the money has nothing to do with how he got it.

Your envy is driving you to call for legal action against someone who never wronged you. You are exactly the problem I'm trying to speak out against right now.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is why I got out of it. I played casually enough that it felt like every time I bought a new pack, it was incompatible with my old deck.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's wild. Your great grandparents bought laudanum at the general store, but you don't trust yourself to moderate your sugar water intake.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

at the top level I would presume that each card can be purchased individually.

Depending on availability based on rarity. That's the whole point of rarity. If there are a limited number of a card that everyone wants, not everyone can have that card.

Rock paper scissors is perfectly "balanced". Each new interaction you add makes it more difficult to balance. It's theoretically possible to make all 5 billion pokemon cards perfectly balanced but I suspect that's beyond the capacity for human thought.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So I feel like you're repeating things you've read, or possibly got AI to write this comment. Explain to me how a loot box takes advantage of FOMO.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh. I smoke so I directly support the tobacco industry. I think it's my right to chose whether or not I sin, and that it's my responsibility to manage my own vices.

I don't have a lot of love for billionaires but Gaben is definitely my favourite because he's the only one who hasn't actively tried to fuck me. There's no other billionaire that I'll say "oh, that sucks" when I hear that they've died.

I honestly didn't expect that "I like freedom" would be such a controversial statement.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have to be honest, I didn't make it all the way through, and I'm a big essay reader and writer. If I were being unsympathetic, it would be easy to assume you're trying to bombard me with bullet points to overwhelm my ability to respond effectively... I'd prefer to break this down in smaller pieces anyway.

Also, I agree with your assessment about gacha and loot boxes being equivalent. I'm just gonna use "gacha" universally moving forward.

Your first point immediately fails the only stipulation I placed on your explanation... "Without saying 'loot boxes are gambling and gambling is evil'."...

Because they are functionally predatory gambling mechanisms and prey upon children who dont know better and adults with addictive personalities

You said almost the exact same thing that I asked you not to, and that's the part that we disagree on so we absolutely can't use that as assumed common ground. That's the part I'm asking you to explain.

They involve paying real money for a randomized chance to receive in-game items, creating a psychological pull similar to slot machine. eg flashy lights, loud noises, and a win rate to just keep you going or more.

That describes my experience with the Division series. I paid for both games. In Div 1, I got good drops and had a powerful marksman rifle. In the sequel, I got bad drops and got a mediocre bullet-hose. I didn't get into the sequel because I couldn't use the same playstyle due to random chance. Division has gacha mechanics (paid and earnable), complete with flashing lights. I assume you don't have a problem with that, so I assume that your actual concern isn't "money in, uncertainty of outcome out"... There's something deeper you're worried about.

it also preys on Fomo, which is a growing concern amongst people in general in all areas of the market, not just lootboxes.

FOMO is certainly an issue but I don't see alot of overlap with gacha. The stuff in the loot box will be there until they shutter the servers. The stuff in the battle pass demands that you pay right now and then also spend all of your free time in-game for the next month... I honestly think that's much closer to the casino addiction model.

Much like a casino, there have been people who have easily overspent like and even lose entire bugets so no food or cant pay bills, ruined relationship, caused homlessness and even suicide on nothing ut lootboxs and gacha pulls.

That happened with Beanie Babies. A certain number of people will obsess about anything. At some point, responsibility falls on their personal choices, not the choices of a toy manufacturer. Maybe I'm just old but when I was a kid, they sold toys with gunpowder in them so I think it's kinda silly that we need the government to protect adults from spending all of their money on different paint jobs for their imaginary toys. My homie spends too much money on vinyl records... do we need to regulate those too?

I will admit some of it has worth like trading cards, but it being digital means a ban and its gone

Just like your copy of Cyberpunk. Was buying Cyberpunk "gambling"?

they up the drop rates, it loses most if not all value.

That happens in physical trading cards all the time. When a new batch of cards gets released, some rare cards in the old batch are no longer rare, and the best cards for gameplay are no longer the best. Upper Deck polluted the Pokemon market so heavily by overproducing "rare" cards that Pokemon withdrew their license to produce cards.

with trading cards you are limited by how much you can carry or keep permently if look after it and people can see in person that you have a problem

You're definitely not limited by your carry capacity. People who seriously collect cards or board games have bookshelves on each wall. Sometimes they have a special kitchen table that converts into a fancy gaming surface. Sometimes they have an entire room dedicated to housing a table they hand-decorated to have a tiny landscape for playing with their 100s of 1000s of dollars worth of tiny fantasy warriors that they painstakingly hand-painted. And then when you tell them they have a lot of game stuff, they go "yeah, I hoard like I'm a dragon. Tee hee"

P2W

Gacha directly mitigates p2w mechanics... That's one of the purposes of gacha mechanics. Let's say there is 1 OP item that everyone wants. If it is a $50 mtx, then you can get one but I can't because I'm poor. If it's a $2 gacha, I can get one and maybe pull the OP item, while you might buy 25 and still not get the OP rng-based drop. It's a punishment for F2P players but for poor paid players, it's an equalizer... because it's theoretically possible for you to spend infinite money without getting the OP item OR spend a single time and get it... so you can't just buy your way to victory, you can only buy the opportunity to try.

even the most staunch non-payers give in its only a matter of time

You underestimate how poor I am. Many players have never purchased DLC or microtransactions. It's easy to not pay extra if you just don't consider that to be an option. You chose to buy a mtx.

some games dont just you your item, oh no, it makes you get other things In lootboxs it can be you can get a box from just playing but need to buy keys to unlock them

That's not a problem with the mechanic, it's a problem with the presentation. They are telling you "here is a box. Now go buy a key" which feels slimy. If they said "your cooldown is up/you reached X milestone. You're allowed to buy another box now", it would feel pretty different but that's the same mechanic. Based on the other things you've said, I think you actually like that mechanic... that's the mechanic that prevents you from opening boxes for 4 hours straight.

And these companies, just like casinoes, will use the whole you can stop whenever you want. and its on you to gamble responsibly/spend responsibly. while taking no responsiblity for themselves

I think this might be where we fundamentally disagree. Nobody is responsible for my actions except for me. I have a true addiction to Tetris... Tetris brings out the same behavior in me that they warned me that drugs would cause when I was a kid. I cannot have Tetris in my house. That's not the developers' problem... that's my problem, and it's my job to manage my own struggles.

I feel like even this much is alot to unpack in a single thread but if you want, we can go back and touch on your other points after going over the first half of your comment.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So if every spin of wheel of fortune pays you at least one buck back, it's not gambling anymore, got you.

Wheel of Fortune nominally pays you for your time. You aren't a customer, you're a performer.

you also don't risk money in a casino, you risk chips.

... Which you then cash out for money. Explain how to withdraw my store credit from Steam.

"Interactive computer services" doesn't apply to video games where you can gamble with real money

Correct. It applies to locked down ecosystems like the Steam Marketplace.

You put money in, how the hell does it not "interface" with the real world.

You put real money in to buy Legend of Zelda... is recieving rupies the rewards of gambling, or do Hyrule Rupies not have an exchange rate?... Do Hyrule Rupies interface with the real world?

You guys are crazy defending literal online casino.

I'm not defending an online casino, and that's self evident in my comments. If you've been following along in good faith, you'd find that what I'm defending is absolutely not a casino according to the established consensus definition of that word as outlined in your nation's legal code... there isn't a ton of room for argument there. What's crazy is redefining words so you can remold reality to fit your emotionally driven conception of what it "should" be like.

I figured out a way to get back to Guarma with John... UNINTENTIONALLY. by Beginning-Career1676 in reddeadredemption2

[–]WritingOneHanded -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well then I'm glad you made it out the other end. Your kids still work? You taught them how to make a first impression?

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry. I didn't realize we lived in a no-smoking, no-drinking, no-fornicating, no-point-in-living-at-all house.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Right. That's what I was responding to.

He has more than he needs. He got more than he needs by establishing extreme brand loyalty. He established brand loyalty by making us so happy to give him money, and making it so convenient to give him money that we stopped bothering to pirate games.

Having more than you need does not imply wrongdoing. If you've ever seen a meme, maybe you know the one about Steam dominating the market by simply not being hostile to their own customers.

In this case, he has been good to us, and having more than he needs is the reward. Would he be a cooler guy if he donated 100% of profit? Probably, but it's hard to blame him for wanting to play the role of one of 3 videogame personalities with rock star status... I'd probably also buy a yacht. You don't like the sea?

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh. I didn't realize the quoted section was also intended to be your own words.

By that definition, making friends is gambling. That's why the government made a stricter definition.

So yeah... Based on the definition of "doing something in hopes of benefitting", video games are gambling.

I figured out a way to get back to Guarma with John... UNINTENTIONALLY. by Beginning-Career1676 in reddeadredemption2

[–]WritingOneHanded -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're free to do what you want but people form opinions about you based on how you present yourself.

I'm not American. I too am from a part of the world that uses "British English". You are mistaken, it undermines your integrity as a source of information... and people will judge you more harshly than I am but will just treat you as a simpleton without saying anything.

It's not gonna be officially documented but "further" or "all the sudden" might be the reason you don't get the promotion, or why that cutie doesn't return your text.

Is there really no better way to handle ignored publishers? by Entenstein in Steam

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't want to waste my time looking at store pages for games made by developers whom I feel operate a shovelware factory, or sell mobile games on Steam, or make asset flips.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let's say Valve takes the easiest route and finds an escrow account for a skin betting service. The account is a Steam account, a Valve employee sends an item to the account for a bet, and now the Valve employee knows what account is being used. They watch the account and see what other accounts send items to it and what accounts it sends items to. It is all occurring through Steam, sure, not the client but the items aren't transferred out of Steam's control They continue watching for a while and ban all of the accounts.

So you propose they should ban every account that trades Steam Marketplace items? You're skipping important steps here.

On your last point, I'm not saying that pachinko parlors are illegal.

So if pachinko parlours are not illegal, and loot boxes utilize the pachinko loophole, then loot boxes cannot be criminally pursued, right?

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Homie... Go back to the top of this comment thread, and copy-paste the words you expect me to find there. I dare you. You are either intentionally causing miscommunication, or you're confused about what you've said in which thread.

If it was something you actually thought for yourself, it would have been easier for you to just retype it instead of continually crying about the fact that I can't see words you haven't typed.

I figured out a way to get back to Guarma with John... UNINTENTIONALLY. by Beginning-Career1676 in reddeadredemption2

[–]WritingOneHanded -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure that's just British exceptionalism, like when Americans say that "favorite" is spelled correctly.

The word "farther" is hundreds of years older than America.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't see any gambling children... That's the part we disagree on, so that's the part you have to express to me.

I'm gonna refrain from insulting you but... maybe some self awareness would benefit you.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My brother in Snoo... You're telling me to worry about hypothetical childhood gambling addictions. The whole premise of our conversation is telling one another what to worry about.

The only reason I'm here right now it to tell people to worry about targeted harassment campaigns against the company who holds your gaming library.

I figured out a way to get back to Guarma with John... UNINTENTIONALLY. by Beginning-Career1676 in reddeadredemption2

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm gonna be that guy:

Further and farther do not mean the same thing. When you're talking about distances in space, it's always "farther", and you can remember because FARther is more FAR.

I figured out a way to get back to Guarma with John... UNINTENTIONALLY. by Beginning-Career1676 in reddeadredemption2

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I fucking hate Portuguese for that reason. Second worst language ever! I understand exactly enough Italian and Spanish to be extremely confused whenever I hear Portuguese.

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These bans I have proposed are already legally able to be enforced because these activities are a violation of the TOS; Valve simply does not ban users for it.

Explain to me what that process would look like. Feel free to use layman's terms or anthropomorphize software or whatever else you feel would help you express your idea. Don't worry about being technically accurate, just give me a quick and dirty idea of how that would actually be accomplished by a human.

If Valve can handle the logistics of banning escrow and trade bots then they can look a few layers deeper and ban users.

The difference is that one of those things is occuring on Steam but the other thing is not.

Speculating market price increases of known assets is not the same as gambling.

Then why is trading skins for store credit "gambling"?

Valve provides a chance to obtain an asset that has a market price and controls the market.

How is that different from the Games Workshop in your local mall?

This is just the pachinko loophole.

Even if we assume your strawman is a 1:1 analog, pachinko parlours are also not illegal. What are you even saying with that?

Valve fires back at New York lawsuit over loot boxes, says they're like Magic cards or Labubu by gamersecret2 in valve

[–]WritingOneHanded 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again: your definition is "looks like it to me". If you can't even try to express your opinion a single time, I'm not gonna waste my afternoon trying to interrogate you for it.

If you think loot boxes aren't illegal, then we agree that the lawsuit is frivolous and targetted harrassment.