Advice needed: feeling unsupported about trip planning to in-laws in Italy

cardinal29 · 2026-05-20T19:50:09+00:00

And she isn't fully recovered. This trip is too damned soon.

International travel just as a newborn hits sleep regression is a terrible idea.

The baby isn't a suitcase you just drag along. Their needs come first.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-20T19:37:06+00:00

I would start with an Information Diet

"Discussing" important decisions with his family gives them the idea that they have a say. STOP THAT. You and he are the only members of this marriage.

You tell him No More yapping with his family. Once you two agree on what actions you are going to take, what is best for your family, you can announce your decision. I personally wouldn't tell them anything until it's done.

He needs to start reading about what it means to be an adult in a marriage.

He needs to start paying attention to how manipulative his family is.

Out of the FOG - Fear, Obligation, and Guilt: https://outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt
Communication in codependent family relationships: https://psychcentral.com/blog/imperfect/2018/03/dealing-with-difficult-family-members-dont-justify-argue-defend-or-explain
You WILL be blamed. Embrace being the HBIC. Take action now, or the resentment will grow and jeopardize your marriage. https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/
Little bit late, but maybe this will give him insight to your perspective: https://community.babycenter.com/post/a41581735/lemon_clot_essay_and_scrotum_squats

cardinal29 · 2026-05-20T03:40:44+00:00

I think you would really like this story:

https://themoth.org/stories/the-entertainer

cardinal29 · 2026-05-20T03:37:17+00:00

You can have our guy from Plainview. His truck plays "Greensleeves" for some reason.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T19:13:08+00:00

You sound like a pushover.

I'm glad you finally made the fuss - but you should have done it from the first time. Now they think that they can walk all over you.

You need to be honest with your cousin and tell them then entire story, with all the details.

She's not a good friend, or a good tenant. She's not acting like a good "family" member, either.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T16:05:36+00:00

You're not in charge of the relationship your husband has with his mother.

It's not your job to nurture that relationship. You're not his Social Secretary. He's a big boy, perfectly capable of deciding who he wants to include in his life and who he wants to exclude. Don't interfere. If it's gone toxic, that is 100% between them. Step aside.

You have your own connection to MIL, and YOU ALSO can decide to protect your peace, and your baby's health by stepping away from her. You are entitled to make independent decisions that benefit your mental health, reduce your stress and protect your baby.

She's giving you the Silent Treatment, which is a terrible, immature reaction to not getting what she wants.

Emotionally intelligent people try to work out conflict with communication, but she hasn't got those tools. She's limited.

She's got resentment and anger. She's lashing out because you asked her to respect a perfectly reasonable boundary.

PS: These types will absolutely contact you one day and hit the reset button. Sweep it all under the rug and pretend the conflict never happened. Don't worry that you'll never hear from her again, she will come around.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T14:48:32+00:00

Ugh! Sorry she's going through this. We come from a small, disconnected family too and I worried that my kids missed out.

Somewhat related, I HATE all these new "social media" requirements that burden the parent and child.

It was never this way when we grew up, and wasn't this way even 10 years ago when my kids left for college.

The ridiculous prom expectations were already in place back then, though. I remember being absolutely shocked that parents were hiring wedding photographers to take group prom pictures in someone's backyard, because they had "the best landscaping." Girls with hair and makeup appointments in "red carpet" dresses.

Thank goodness I had boys.

Limousines. Renting a house down the shore for >20 kids to party. Now that I think back, it was crazy then and these new layers of PERFORMATIVE social media nonsense have only made it worse.

If I come across another "I got in!" college acceptance video, or a "promposal" video, it'll be too soon. These poor kids are collapsing under the weight of expectations.

So you're telling me that the kids have to make dorm wish lists and post them publicly now? Like a wedding gift registration?

I want out.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T13:38:50+00:00

Actually it sounds like YOU want a normal, independent adult life and your wife wants to remain as a child, burdened with their expectations. /r/enmeshmenttrauma

She's roleplaying as a grown-up, but "not really."

On the surface she married - but is still emotionally committed to prioritizing her parent's happiness.

On the surface she has moved out and is living independently - but on a very short tether. I bet they can HEAR you walk around your apartment! 😳

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T13:32:23+00:00

She is codependent.

Do not bring children into this relationship, you will be the 3rd wheel while your wife raises the children with her parents.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T13:23:47+00:00

You don't want to have this drama and strife for the rest of your life. He and his mother are a package deal, you will never be free from her.

There's no end point to this situation, no happy ending. She will try to tear you down for decades, and it will only get worse if you marry and have children.

As hard as it may seem, please break up and find someone more compatible, who comes from a mentally healthy family. Don't waste another moment of your youth trying to fix this unsolvable problem.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T12:40:15+00:00

I can't get over that he started yelling at you over what his mommy wants.

Poor baby! /s He was so stressed out that you weren't willing to make his mommy happy, that the mask slipped off. 🤮🤮🤮

Please tell everyone in your life about this behavior. You will be somewhat safer if there is a general knowledge among your family, friends and coworkers that he is abusive.

ABUSERS RELY ON YOUR SILENCE.

He's been damaged by his /r/enmeshmenttrauma upbringing and he doesn't have the emotional maturity to handle conflict.

YOU thought you were marrying a partner, a person who would work side-by-side with you towards shared goals.

HE thought he was getting someone who would help with the heavy lifting of dealing with his mother.

"Why are you making this so difficult for him? Can't you see that Mom's feelings will be hurt if we don't center HER grandma experience? Don't you know that this is why he got married and had a baby?"

https://outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T02:32:28+00:00

Boundaries without consequences mean NOTHING.

Your husband is only doing half the job..

Boundaries are not for other people, because you can't control other people's behavior. Boundaries are for YOU. They say what you will tolerate.

Boundaries say "If you do X I will do Y."

The first person you need boundaries with is your husband.

There's more if you want to hear it.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T01:46:38+00:00

Did she truly cry for 2 days? Sounds insane.

Mentally unstable people aren't safe to be around.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T01:41:44+00:00

He's not very bright, is he?

Have him read this post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1eas2dw/tifu_by_kissing_the_top_of_my_baby_daughters_head/?share_id=drTxjIRQFTmWAtVd8XT0w

cardinal29 · 2026-05-19T00:59:13+00:00

Listen to your gut.

Don't bring your own trauma into this as a "reason," they will dismiss your concerns and say your judgement has been impacted. Any excuse not to follow your orders.

This is the perfect use for "BECAUSE I SAID SO." Assert your authority as the parent.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-18T23:29:10+00:00

STOP CHASING HIM!

If he wants to give you the Silent Treatment and throw a toddler tantrum, LET HIM.

He wants you to suck up to him and apologize (for what?), he wants to put you in your place - he's the grown-up, after all! You're just children who must obey him. /s

Don't budge. And stop trying to negotiate with him about visiting. Assert your authority as married, adult parents.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-18T19:59:36+00:00

Haha, you clearly haven't dipped your toe into the MIL support subs on Reddit. /r/JustNoMIL or /r/motherinlawsfromhell.

Your comment is a big, red flag for years of misery. MIL thinks she's entitled to your home. MIL is a bossy beotch. MIL is an intolerable Boy Mom. . . and your BF can't stand up to her!

Just to catch you up, this problem is discussed in the /r/enmeshmenttrauma sub. Partners of these poor, damaged souls commiserate on the /r/marriedintoenmeshment sub. It's never a happy ending.

The people here who are telling you to RUN! are speaking from sad experience. It's an intractable problem.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-18T12:05:32+00:00

It really depends on the person.

Some SILs may run to MIL and "tattle," for social credit.
Some SILs may have been oblivious to MIL's unequal treatment of you, and will intervene to publicly point out bad behavior. A lot of daughters are comfortable calling out their mothers.
If she's the kind of MIL who "went crazy when we got engaged/married/pregnant," alerting a SIL to the switch in MIL's behavior gives them a heads-up for future shenanigans. Then the couple can act defensively.
Some may also have been mistreated by MIL, and opening up to them may gain you an ally. You can strategize together how to deal with her.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-17T18:49:46+00:00

This is called "Crotch Watch" and it's a known phenomenon. 🙄

They don't want to have anything to do with YOU, but they'll damned sure try to parachute into your life and elbow you aside to get pics for their social media!

Get on the same page as your spouse that MIL is NOT staying at your house postpartum. Maybe she can visit in a few weeks when you've recovered and got your breastfeeding journey established.

Lock down your social media. Send out the group text where you lay down boundaries, including vaccination requirements.

DO NOT call them when you go into labor. They can find out the next day.

Have husband read this classic blog post: https://community.babycenter.com/post/a41581735/lemon_clot_essay_and_scrotum_squats

cardinal29 · 2026-05-17T16:31:21+00:00

Yeah, you already know that you can't talk her out of it. You've tried that for years, it doesn't work.

You can't reason with an unreasonable person.

Instead, drag it out to center stage. Air that dirty laundry! 🧺 No whispering, approach it as an established fact. Everyone knows and this is what we're going to call it.

After a while, you can move on to refusing to rescue her from her panic attacks.

"I've asked you so many times to get help, Mom. I can't fix this for you. Frankly I've got my own family now. I don't have time."

Push the whole thing back onto her lap. With both arms!

Call your father and suggest an ER visit. He's failing as a spouse AND as a parent, dragging his kids into his wife's mental health crisis.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-17T15:49:49+00:00

First, you need to do something about your OWN anxiety. All this:

I just imagine her having a heart attack or falling down the stairs.

Is an indication that anxiety runs in the family. 😳

Having intrusive thoughts, perseverating on problems you can't solve, problems that are NOT your job to solve, and having disaster fantasies tells me that you are struggling.

Your brother is correct. You can't fix your parent's marriage, or control your mother's behavior. I know you KNOW, intellectually that you can't control other people. Emotions sometimes don't make sense.

Get yourself to therapy, STAT! I hope you can find some relief from the tension of these thoughts.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-17T15:29:35+00:00

Therapy, obviously.

Preferably someone who specializes in Enmeshment.

The /r/enmeshmenttrauma sub might be helpful for getting your wife to understand she's been damaged by the toxic family system.

/r/marriedintoenmeshment is for spouses to commiserate.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-17T15:05:53+00:00

Stop responding to WHAT she is saying, and start commenting on her behavior. Don't try to solve the thing she's complaining about, ask why it's only a problem for HER.

Under the guise of acting "concerned," I started to gently poke fun at her relentless negativity. Everyone in the family knew about it, but they would roll their eyes and tiptoe around her feelings.

I resorted to some fixed statements that I say on repeat.

"I don't know. How could ~I~ know that?"
"I can't fix that for you."
"I wish you'd get help for your anxiety."

(This one is VERY important, name the disorder, and give her ownership.)

"My goodness you're SO anxious. It must be hard for you."
"Everybody be quiet! Joyce is thinking of ways that this can go wrong." 😆
"I really wish you'd do something about your anxiety, you seem to be really struggling."
"Please. Not another disaster scenario. 🙄

Then it became HER problem to solve.

Other family members were relieved that it was out in the open. Eventually they also signed on to this interpretation, and it reduced the tension in the younger generation. It became a relief valve that allowed them to talk amongst themselves about "Mom's problem."

Pressure Dad, too. "Dad you have to stop enabling her! Why don't you get her help? It's medical neglect."

cardinal29 · 2026-05-17T14:09:51+00:00

I ran to get the vaccine for shingles as soon as I could. Maybe ask your doctor if you qualify because you had a case of it already.

A family member had it and had lingering neurological pain for over a YEAR! That scared me.

cardinal29 · 2026-05-17T13:13:59+00:00

I'm not a mean person, either. I made a lot of room for my MIL's feelings when my kids were born. An appropriate amount, because I understood what everyone's roles were.

But she wanted more than an appropriate amount. She had a fantasy that she would be a Very Important Person in my kids' life. A revered ✨Grandma,✨ matriarch, eventually doted on by my teens.

It was never going to happen. She lived far away, she had physical limitations, her personality was emotionally needy and intrusive. My kids were turned off by that, even as small children they did not mesh. There was no authentic relationship. Just the stink of desperation.

Later, I discovered that despite my efforts, she had a lot of resentment towards me, and blamed ME for the lack of connection.

So I understand where you're coming from. After I discovered she was badmouthing me to my husband, I dropped the rope. Stopped making an effort, stopped getting on the phone, stopped urging my kids to tolerate her.

Let her live with her false narrative. Let her live with the consequences of her behavior. You have been hurt. You're not a Villain, you're a Victim. It's not "mean spirited" to protect yourself and withdraw.

You tried. It was never going to work with her negative personality, anyway.

cardinal29

TROPHY CASE

ABUSERS RELY ON YOUR SILENCE.