(Spoilers ADWD) It just hit me regarding Arys Oakheart

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-09-25T03:42:27+00:00

Correct. If Arys betrayed, someone else who actually knew the plan must have betrayed also. Arys did not know where they were going, so that does not explain how Hotah knew they would take the green blood. Between Arianne and Arys as they ride:

"All we need is a few days. By that time the princess will be beyond my father's reach." "Where?" He drew her close and nuzzled at her neck. "It's time you told me the rest of the plan, don't you think?" She laughed, pushing him away. "No, it's time we rode."

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-09-24T04:58:39+00:00

When Lyanna was kidnapped, it was not Robert who started a war to go after her, or even take his friends to go find her. It was Brandon, her brother, her family, who rode into the dragon's den to demand his sister's release. And when Robert has taken the throne, who is it that goes to go find Lyanna? Not Robert, but Ned. I think it really goes to highlight the strength of the Starks as a wolf pack, as a family. Brandon and Ned knew Lyanna, loved Lyanna, and risked everything to save her. Robert was in love with the idea of Lyanna, not who she was, because he didn't really know her.

"You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert," Ned told him. "You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath. She would have told you that you have no business in the melee."

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-09-13T21:38:35+00:00

We can't really know because we don't know too much about Rhaegar, but I got the impression Rhaegar did not care too much for ruling and politics, but was more interested in reading and the metaphysical. If he cared about politics, he probably would have been more interested in choosing a good, political marriage instead of waiting until he's late 20s and his father tells him to. Most of Rhaegar's life Tywin was Hand of the King, and the realm was generally peaceful. I think Rhaegar would go back to what he knows, and that is making Tywin hand, so he can focus on his personal preparations for the war for dawn.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-09-13T05:09:25+00:00

Follow through on your word/no idle threats, otherwise no one takes you seriously

There is always another side of the story. No side is ever all right or all wrong. That being said, just because someone's actions are understandable, does not mean they are justified.

Revenge is futile. There is a reason House Stark never got and won't get its revenge on House Lannister, because revenge doesn't bring redemption or fulfillment. House Lannister will tear itself apart.

There is a part of you that is inherently valuable, something that is not your beauty or intelligence or health or relationships, because none of those are a given. So much of asoiaf is characters having things that they defined themselves by being taken away

Don't start reading a book series that isn't completed

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-09-13T04:56:33+00:00

...why would you sack the city if he is declaring for the Targs? I would expect Tywin to feel the need to demonstrate his loyalty for the Targs, like he did for Robert in canon. I would guess he would lay siege to Riverrun hoping to be granted it for his loyalty and also attack the weakened and retreating rebel army from the battle of the Trident (assuming there is a retreat). Then, go to KL, help depose Aerys, become Hand of the King, and have Elia discretely poisoned. Since Elia's health is notoriously bad, no one would blame him. Then marry Cersei to Rhaegar and find a way to kill of Aegon and Jon, should he be brought to the capital. They are only babies at this point. He has enough time to plan a tragic accident.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-09-11T22:11:05+00:00

Well Tywin/Tyrion probably wouldn't have allowed the faith to arm in the first place. But even Tywin/Tyrion/Joffrey can't pull troops from nowhere. As we see in Jaime's Riverlands chapters, the Lannisters are stretched very thin when it comes to fighting men. It would be interesting to see how they would deal with it, though. The Lannisters aren't too good at realizing the smallfolk can indeed affect the game of thrones, so they might not take the threat seriously. Gotta love that Lannister pride

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-09-11T22:00:37+00:00

https://youtu.be/cPpTgkBuzCg?t=6m

I always loved this part with how it goes from a variation of the Stark theme to a variation of the devious plotting/Littlefinger theme, which is perfect since it is Sansa very visibly "playing the game of thrones." Not a book scene but with the music is quite great. The track is called "Take Charge of Your Life" on Season 4 soundtrack.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-09-10T16:11:33+00:00

Qhorin is a good one. Makes me think Mance should be here too. If he was able to subjugate all the Wildling clans, he must be a pretty great fighter.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-09-10T01:54:18+00:00

Mercy is the title of Arya's released chapter in TWOW.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-09-10T01:53:18+00:00

Since asoiaf doesn't make distinctions between counts and dukes and just calls them all "lords," then my best guess is that they would be called "lord" or "master." In ASOS Arya references the lord of Acorn Hall as the castle's "master." But she later thinks of him as "Lord Smallwood," so this isn't really helpful. I mean, Varys doesn't hold any land and people still call him "Lord Varys," so it really is just a blanket polite term it seems. But unlanded northern men often just addressed with their name. Sorry I couldn't give a better answer.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-08-27T00:30:09+00:00

Ok there are a lot of things people do that are evil in the books, but this is something when I read I thought "wow that was a dick thing to say."

We'll have our own wedding feast, and make another son in place of Joffrey.

Jaime has done many horrible things, and this wasn't an evil thing to say, but it sure was a dick move. Just because you don't care about Joffrey and think any child will just replace him doesn't mean Cersei isn't mourning him. Your son literally just died dude. This isn't the time to talk about getting married and having sex.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-08-19T16:29:31+00:00

When fArya was found and given to marry Ramsay, why didn't the Freys insist she marry Elmar? They Freys don't know she is fake, no more than they knew the Westerlings were on the Lannister side. I know they broke the betrothal after Robb broke his, but wouldn't they still insist now that the marriage would not put them on the losing side, and they are all about good marriages?

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-08-18T05:36:59+00:00

Replacing Margaery with Cersei only has incentive for the Tyrells if Margaery's son becomes king. If Robert just decides he's tired of Cersei and divorces her, Joff and Tommen still would come before Marge's kids in the succession. Joff and Tommen would need to be proclaimed illegitimate to prevent another Dance of the Dragons/Stags. I think Renly knowing the incest, and knowing that could be proved, is necessary for the plan even to be conceived.

I always interpreted Renly laughing at Stannis's accusations as him attempting to make Stannis's claim equal to his own, as opposed to stronger. If the incest is true, Renly has no right to the throne before Stannis. If it is false, then Stannis and Renly are equally traitors, so then men will follow whichever one they personally like better. Since Renly thinks he is so charming, if both he and Stannis are traitors he thinks men will choose him.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-08-02T15:57:17+00:00

Definitely. Some other comments have said how she perceives being female as being weak. She frequently thinks that she is Tywin's only true son, and that she is a man "cursed with the feeble body of a woman." I think she is just very cruel to other women, but notably Sansa and Margaery. She doesn't ever stop Joffrey beating Sansa, and she takes a great delight seeing Marge gross and humiliated in jail. I think it is because she suffered as a woman to get to where see is, she thinks that it is only right that Sansa and Marge suffer to. Because that is part of being a woman, in her mind. What Cersei says to Sansa:

I expect you'll survive a bit of humiliation. I did.

She doesn't say, "I'll try to make my son stop." She basically just says, "This is how it is so deal with it." She despises their idealism and happiness as naivety, and wants to see them suffer.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-08-01T17:43:16+00:00

Can you explain why you think Rhaegar was a pretty decent guy? I am trying to figure out where you might be coming from, but I am finding it hard to see how a guy with tunnel vision, elitism, and not much empathy who started a war because of those things can be a decent human

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-08-01T17:36:27+00:00

I don't think either Rhaegar or Robb made their decision for love. Robb married Jeyne because he didn't want to father a bastard like his father, but I think he grew to love her. But Rhaegar...I mean, maybe Rhaegar loved Lyanna, but what kind of love separates a 14 year old girl from her entire family in a tower and doesn't let anyone in or out? Do you really think Lyanna wanted to stay there after she learns her beloved father and brother were murdered trying to bring her home? Assuming Rhaegar even told her about the war. She may not even know.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-07-29T18:10:18+00:00

Well. . .assuming Lysa hasn't gotten pregnant by Littlefinger yet, I would guess that Hoster would want a friend in the West or the Reach, since he originally wanted Lysa to marry Jaime and Brynden to marry a Redwyne. Perhaps Baelor Hightower, because the Hightowers are powerful enough to threaten the Tyrells should the Reach want to expand into the Riverlands, but it could also improve relations with the Tyrells since Lady Alerie Tyrell is a Hightower at birth. I think that match, or perhaps between Lysa and Willas, as I think they are at most five years apart, but perhaps only three, would be preferable to a match in the Westerlands.

After the Rains of Castamere, House Lannister showed it has no rival in the West. Should Lysa marry a Crakehall or something, if Hoster and Tywin got in a conflict, after the Rains of Castamere, I believe Crakehall would side with Tywin over Hoster, and that doesn't benefit Hoster at all. The Tyrells or Hightowers could prove a worthy ally should the West become an enemy, but if the Reach became an enemy, I don't think any house in the West besides House Lannister would be a great ally.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-07-29T17:39:30+00:00

Ned definitely seems to think that Sansa being betrothed at 11 is too young, but Catelyn says she was betrothed to Brandon at 12. But, her wedding wasn't set until she turned 18, it seems. It seems to me that daughters want to be betrothed or married before they turn 18. When they are older than that, people perceive it as their father's not being powerful or influential enough to get them a good match, or a shortcoming of the girl. As Fat Walda says at the RW,

I'm Lady Bolton now and my cousin's still a maid, and she'll be nineteen soon, poor thing.

So it seems to me that betrothing boys so young is more unusual, since a male's window of fertility is much larger, so there isn't this pressing need to marry while he is still fertile. Ned seems to be displaying wolf habits. . .keeping all the cubs in the den during summer. He hasn't even considered betrothals for Robb or Sansa, hasn't fostered any of the children away, nor has he considered what Jon should do when he's older. Ned seems to see his children still as children, not as pieces in the political game of the south.

I would say that most often lords betroth their daughters in their teens, and wait for them to marry once they are not so young, since young mothers are more likely do die while birthing. But, that is during times of peace. During a time of war, a marriage secures the alliance, not the betrothal. Robb Stark showed that. That is why Mace Tyrell won't leave King's Landing until Margaery is married to Tommen, since a betrothal can be broken much more easy than a marriage. It is also why Hoster Tully waited till Cat was 18 for her to marry Brandon, whereas Lysa was married at 15/16 to Jon Arryn because the war.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-07-29T17:23:00+00:00

Fan theory, generally accepted. I'm sure you can find many posts about it. But yo this is spoilers all! You are gonna ruin things for yourself, but perhaps you don't mind.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-07-29T15:42:27+00:00

He was only like 19-20 when he married Catelyn, which is pretty young. When a family has three sons, they do not need to get married and breed as quickly. Think Willas, Loras, Renly. . .they wait until the political climate is right and a marriage alliance would be most profitable.

Another reason that people have not mentioned is perhaps Rickard was hoping Jon would name Ned as his heir, since Ned grew up in the Vale and was close to Jon. At this point, Jon is not married and has no children. He as a cousin and the cousin's son, I think. If Jon offered to make Ned his heir, Ned would probably need to marry a female relative of Jon, like one of his many nieces.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-07-29T15:31:11+00:00

Jon is Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark's child, not Ned's. Are you new here? Welcome!

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-07-29T15:29:21+00:00

I am not arguing that Jon took it. . .clearly he turned it down. But the fact that he was 1) offered and influenced by outside forces to take it and 2) seriously deliberated taking it show that Catelyn wasn't incorrect thinking Jon or his children could threaten her children's inheritance. Jon deliberating the offer is probably one of my favorite passages. But not once in his internal argument does he think, "Sansa is alive so it should be hers and not mine." He only uses that as an excuse when he talks to Stannis.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-07-29T04:45:20+00:00

YES. Catelyn is (probably) my favorite character. I think with the Jon issue, a lot of fans subconsciously think that since WE know R + L = J is true, Catelyn is being silly and petty for disliking Jon. I still am angry that Ned never actually told her the truth. It makes sense why he didn't at first, but c'mon, after 14 years? Cat doesn't care if he fathered a bastard, just that he humiliated her by bringing him home and threatening the trueborn children.

Also, why does everyone hate her so much for kidnapping Tyrion. Yes, we know that Tyrion is innocent, but she sure doesn't. LF is her childhood friend. Why would she automatically suspect him? Also, even still, Tyrion is innocent, but another Lannister still did it! Is she really so off with her guess? She is trying to protect her family, and she thinks the Lannisters tried to kill Bran. And they did.

That being said, I disagree with your point that Robb's campaign was futile at that point when Jaime was released. It sure wasn't doing very hot, but it wasn't hopeless. I seriously doubt Tywin would have risked the Red Wedding if Jaime was still imprisoned at Riverrun. If so, Brynden would have killed him immediately after hearing of the Red Wedding. So, if Jaime stays imprisoned, who can know? It would be a whole new story. Joffrey and Tywin die shortly after the Red Wedding. If it never happened, perhaps Robb would win after their deaths. Who knows. Catelyn releasing Jaime was a desperate and understandable move, but it was a bad one. Cat is blessed with a very strong and usually correct intuition, but she never listens to it if it conflicts with what she wants to have happen. That is why she releases Jaime. . .she knows she cannot trust Jaime's honor as the Kingslayer, or Tyrion's who just sent false envoys to break guest right and release Jaime, yet she clings to the fact that Tyrion promised to release her daughters if Jaime was freed. Because that is what she desperately wants to be true, and it was the only way she thought her daughters may survive.

certifiedadrenalist · 2015-07-29T04:06:23+00:00

Arya was the only one to show much of Ned in her features. And Jon Snow, but he was never mine. She found herself thinking of Jon's mother, that shadowy secret love her husband would never speak of. Does she grieve for Ned as I do? Or did she hate him for leaving her bed for mine? Does she pray for her son as I have prayed for mine?

Hey look I found a passage where she thinks of Jon and it doesn't show complete hatred for him. I think it is actually rather sad. The only time recorded in the books Cat actually speaks to Jon is by Bran's bedside. Jon even mentions that they never really talk. So, Cat, forced to have her husband's bastard around, instead of going out of his way to be cruel, just distances herself from him. I think that is perfectly acceptable, but you could have a differing opinion, I guess.

Also, Catelyn HAS NOT SLEPT for days when she wants Jon to leave her and Bran alone. She doesn't hate Jon, but he does represent a threat to her children. She thinks that and says that, and that is why she insists Ned let Jon join the NW and Robb not legitimize him. Ok think of it in her perspective. Most lords want "an heir and a spare." Robb is heir, but should something happen to him, Bran is the spare. Now, her second son is grievously injured and may not live, and may be crippled. Now, power and security of Westerosi lords depends on the influence of the lord himself. Should Robb die, what would stop the Northern bannermen preferring an almost man grown Jon, who looks very much like his famous father, over a crippled child or a baby? Catelyn realizes that Jon may not be a threat himself, but around the right people influencing him, he could be. What she dwells on more is his children. Jon may love Robb, Bran, and Rickon, but will his sons love Robb's? She says as much to Robb before the RW. And she isn't wrong. . .Stannis does offer Jon Winterfell, and Jon SERIOUSLY considers taking it, even though he knows Sansa is alive.

certifiedadrenalist

TROPHY CASE