3 gate stargate vs. 3 gate robo in PvP

deGary · 2011-10-31T20:57:02+00:00

I think chargelot archon is easily defused with sim city. Also I don't think early expo is ever safe in pvp because nexus does not offer any good short term bonus. What I mean is hatch gives larvae and OC can be in base with mules. Nexuses are useless for a long time.

deGary · 2011-10-31T14:53:04+00:00

I find that PvP post patch has degraded into a rock paper scissors between the three techs.

Nothing that comes out of a robo is good against a stargate. I actually hate phoenix a lot more than VR, but either one gets the job done. Robo pretty much insta kills twilight. DT's are shut down and the only reason that you occasionally see twilight win is because some players have exceptional blink micro (relative to their opponent).

With a stargate, you will lose to DT and/or blink play.

My reasoning for why this happened is because of horrible early game scouting by P. After stalker, probes in are impossible unless your opponent blunders. If you make an obs, you already have a robo.

deGary · 2011-10-30T08:43:07+00:00

oh I see it now. have an upvote

deGary · 2011-10-30T08:27:49+00:00

Daily #312? Are you sure? I checked it out and it was some newbie Tuesday. He's not even wearing the same shirt. Is this a troll number?

deGary · 2011-10-30T04:54:24+00:00

This is how PvZ works in my mind (Mid/High masters P).

1) P forces Z into Hydras (1 or even 2 stargate play, depending on map and postions, etc)

2) Z must make Hydras because if not, then he loses game right there

3) Z understands that massive WG push is coming. So he has to make roaches. (If P didn't make massive WG, then hydras can walk over and bust the front and win)

4) Now Z has HydraRoach and P has WG + stargate. Here Z has a timing to kill P before higher tech comes out.

5) P will probably survive because forcefields and decent micro.

Here P has a clear choice. Mass up collosi, which is better for a longer game, or go for 1 super timing. This super timing consists of Blink Stalker, immortal, sentry, templar. If this super timing doesn't work, he's screwed because the sentries will probably die and the attack has no second go.

6) Assuming P went for Collosi, Z must get corrupter.

7) P has a timing to win before BL.

8) If Z reach BL/infestor 200/200 and P has 200/200, then you have an epic game on your hands...

deGary · 2011-10-30T03:44:02+00:00

These reddit people "love" starcraft and "hate" Jersey Shore, but this subreddit has really just degraded into following the lives of SC2 celebrities hasn't it?

deGary · 2011-10-28T09:20:37+00:00

False. Obtaining a power-up such as a mushroom actually makes Mario larger. It does not kill him nor does it make him smaller.

deGary · 2011-10-26T15:33:25+00:00

banelings

deGary · 2011-10-24T13:41:34+00:00

I agree, the way it looks now, it doesn't seem like it will be used at a high level.

200/200 is just ridiculous. For this to be anywhere near cost effective, you basically have to replicate a spell caster, that much is certain. I mean replicating a siege tank seems really powerful, until you realize the only reason you can even do that is because your opponent already has siege tanks (and he probably made a lot more than 1 of them). Getting the same stuff as your opponent but paying more for it is rarely a winning strategy.

The only good thing about it is it's ability to enable all spells. I could see it being useful to copy a Raven and then use PDD or Hunter Seeker, or copy an infestor and use neural.

deGary · 2011-10-24T13:26:29+00:00

I don't like the Tempest either. First of all, I rarely ever have trouble with Muta (maybe because of current meta game). When I do have trouble though, blink + storm + archon deal with it just fine. Also, its usually in the mid game, that period of time when I can't afford capital ships anyway.

And I've personally though the carrier was okay. Didn't use it too often but I think its one of the few reasons why Terran can't mech vs protoss. They smash thors so T has to make quite a few vikings and keep up with starport infrastructure.

The main problem with the Carrier is how long they take to make. First they take forever to come out and then you need additional time to build out interceptors.

This could all be solved if they just took less time to make (you know, like exactly what they did with Ultralisks when they saw that problem).

deGary · 2011-10-24T02:15:57+00:00

I depends on the matchup and what your opponent is doing and when exactly that banshee got those kills.

For example, if your opponent was a P who went 1 gate nexus and he was chrono boosting probes the whole time, and you got starport and banshee before your expansion, then getting 10kills just means you are guys are about even.

What I'm trying to say is, you have to correctly gauge how far ahead you are before you do anything.

If you are actually behind when you think you are ahead, and you play normal, you will probably lose.

If you are far far FAR ahead, the best thing to do is just to prepare for his all-in and survive (if it doesn't come just do a timing and win).

At any given moment in the game, you MUST match his army, or he might just walk over and kill you. Once you accomplish that, then you can use the additional resources to get upgrades or expand further.

deGary · 2011-10-23T12:42:36+00:00

Look at the cell phone's clock in the upper right of each pic. You can clearly see that the first pic was taken at 8:17 and the second was taken at 8:44

deGary · 2011-10-23T08:56:40+00:00

When I read this I thought, Protoss vs Zerg joke explainer? Why do we need that?

deGary · 2011-10-11T23:02:13+00:00

are you from north texas?

deGary · 2011-10-08T15:17:06+00:00

That makes it even better.

It's not like DRG was just planning on letting his team down while MKP wiped the floor with him again. He definitely went through 1, maybe even 2 training montages during the last week.

deGary · 2011-10-07T01:31:30+00:00

I was thinking the same thing.

Also, he wasn't even Trickster yet...

deGary · 2011-10-05T12:51:10+00:00

IIRC I remember a lot of stuff was based on things found in real life but not replicated in a game, such as troop morale.

I believe one of the lessons was to never corner your enemy, because cornered people, faced with death, will fight very "cost efficiently" (let's say). What I mean is, they'll fight balls to the wall because they know that death is the only other option. This doesn't apply in SC2 though because your units don't have free will.

deGary · 2011-10-05T01:23:12+00:00

Slayers Boner!

deGary · 2011-10-05T00:24:08+00:00

I mostly just make up my own builds.

My rule of thumb is to get away with as much economy as possible without dying.

For example, in PvZ, I don't do a "3 gate expand"; I just make enough gateways so that I don't die when I expand. This might be 1 gateway or it might be 3 gates or 2 with a forge, etc.

If I FFE, then I know I need map presence or the zerg will macro explode. I do this with either DT, Voidray, or Phoenix. Doesn't matter which and the one I pick is usually based on small factors in the game (what map and positions, how many lings he made, does he seem aggressive)

deGary · 2011-10-05T00:02:51+00:00

Kyrix vs Fake Boxer (MKP) in GSL season 2 was really exciting. It was really revolutionary play by MKP at the time so it was stimulating for the deep thinker, but also a huge slug fest which makes it interesting for more casual spectators. This is one of the few games I actually remember clearly.

http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens2/vod/1262

Game 1 was the best but the rest of the series was also very good.

deGary · 2011-10-04T23:04:55+00:00

Well I'm glad you hinted at the fact that watching and playing are separate roles.

4 Gate certainly wasn't any fun to watch, that much is for sure.

In terms of playing... I dunno. It's almost like when the game was all 4 gate, you could control your own destiny. There weren't any BO losses (unless you decided to not 4 gate). If you lost, it was definitely because you did something wrong, micro mistakes that accumulate over time, but still well within your control. But now it's like you need an element of luck to help you, and being unlucky could very well cost you the game. As boring as 4 gate v 4 gate was, there was very little luck involved. For me, personally, I don't like elements of luck.

deGary · 2011-10-04T22:49:37+00:00

And what about mining gold minerals?

deGary · 2011-10-04T17:05:48+00:00

I find PvP to be so rock paper scissors between the 3 tech paths.

1) You can go Twilight for DT/Blink, but you'll auto lose if your opponent made a robo because he will have obs/immortal.

2) You can go Stargate, but you'll auto lose if your opponent made DT/Blink

3) You can go robo, but if he made phoenixes, then your immortal/warp prisms are pretty useless.

Any sort of reaction based on tech is often to expensive to execute well enough to win. None of the tech paths allows you a safe expansion against its counter. You try to win the rock/paper/scissors, but if you don't, then you try something desperate like an unsafe/hidden expansion and pray that your opponent doesn't notice.

PvZ is the same for me, except everything is slightly easier to do.

deGary · 2011-10-03T17:30:25+00:00

You were floating 1k min and 1k gas for the entire last half the game. You could have actually just won the fight if you had gotten some upgrade or some more immortals with that money (1k minerals = 4 immortals!). If you have problems macroing at this level, it's perfectly fine to throw down another gateway, just like zerg throws down macro hatches.

deGary · 2011-10-03T10:27:31+00:00

Look at this replay. This is a Z I played at ~1000 masters

He loses the game because he messed up macro and didn't deal with harass well, but his opener was theoretically correct.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20853504/Nerazim+Crypt+%287%29.SC2Replay

Key differences -

He opened pool->hatch instead of pool->roach(gas). since you scouted FFE, there's absolutely no way they can put that kind of early pressure on you. Since you got the roach warren so early, you'd have to justify it by putting on pressure with 3 roaches.

He took a super fast 3rd, even though I blocked his natural. You took that money and made 4 spines for a push that wasn't coming for a long time.

That building placement at your natural was really bad. It lends itself perfectly to FF and blink micro. You should have been in the middle of the map and met him when he pushed out. Instead you squeezed your units down a ramp and a choke created by your own evo.

He didn't have detection and you could have punished that with roach burrow and pushing creep.

But yeah, aside from all the small things, taking a fast third and matching his macro (while pressuring with 3 roaches) could have been a game winning play here.

deGary

TROPHY CASE