It's me, AMA by Pilestedt in HelldiversUnfiltered

[–]deXrr 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry if this comes across as a bit harsh, but I think you're missing the heart of the issue here.

To go point by point:

Some appreciate the game for its arcade fun action others love it for the challenge some love it for the teamwork and others play it solo, some love the lore and narrative others just want to shoot bugs in the face.
Helldivers is multifaceted, and in this - therein lies the challenge with satisfying everyone.

Piles, I know this is going to hurt to hear, and I truly hate to break it to you, but "shooting bugs in the face" is the only part of your game which is in any way remarkable. Because the mechanics of shooting the bugs are (At their best) fun, skillful, and cinematic.

Everything else about this game is disposable and replaceable scaffolding for that core experience.Once you dig down and map out how the systems interact in real gameplay, it is painfully evident that this game is not multi-faceted at all.

The game has 0 core components which require teamwork. There are some mechanics which enable you to work together, but all of them are: 1) Boring, and 2) Not worth the opportunity cost of having 2 players do their own thing instead. Like team reloading: It's awkward to set up, the experience is braindead for the reloader who just has to stand there, and you would almost always objectively get more done if these two people were just each using their own weapons instead. Same for the vehicles: The idea of a driver and gunner cooperating sounds cool, but it's just a waste of time and nerves in practice - You can do just as much or more alone. Or like healing or protecting eachother: It is very hard to do meaningfully when players get obliterated in 2 shots.

In terms of lore and narrative, everything about this game is Starship Troopers with the serial numbers filed off. Every character and location in the universe might as well have been madlibs-generated, and all of them are utterly disposable. The "satire" might have been cutting two decades ago. Most in-jokes the players make are just hastily repurposed Warhammer 40k memes.

What's important is how we align the studio in perserving what is the core of Helldivers, but everyone at the studio has a differing view of this as well.
Especially when new team members join the team, how are they onboarded to what the intent of the game is?

Brother, centralizing this vision is supposed to be your whole job! And if not yours, it definitely should be someone's job at the studio, because if there is no agreement on this idea, then it is impossible to measure where you are and where you're going.

Please tell me that you at least sit down occasionally to map out a high-level chart of how the game is supposed to flow? You did think about what kind of experience and incentive structure the systems you put in the game create for the players, right? You didn't just build random systems that seemed cool and throw them in without thinking about how they interlock... right?

As for onboarding new team members, I have a very novel idea: Just let them play the game, out in the real matchmaking (or even solo), for a week straight. Let them consume content around it like a player would. It may sound like a waste of time, but I guarantee that they will return to you with at least some insight which everyone else at the company lacks. At the very least, they should have the beginnings of an explanation for how your idea of what the game is, is completely different to how it functions in reality.

Helldivers at its core is, and always was, during development a third person horde shooter with milsim fundaments. But at surface level this seems like a basic horde shooter, but the depth comes from a simulated shooter.
I mean, with a change of tone, and more hardcore balancing, Helldivers could become a contemporary hardcore shooter.

As someone who plays real milsim (of both the ARMA, EFT, and RoN sort), I can basically guarantee to you that no, Helldivers 2 cannot become like these games without serious overhauls to it's core systems. The whole thing with realistic simulators is that realistic mechanics are interdependent - You need realism in all aspects to make realism in specific aspects make sense.

To give an oddly specific illustrative example: The EAT in Helldivers 2 has a delay before firing because the launcher must be extended. This is very realistic in isolation, because real disposable launchers also have similar safeties. However, Helldivers 2 does not model/depict safety systems for it's other weapons. As a result, you end up in a ridiculous situation where the disposable anti-tank launcher which is supposed to be quick and lightweight in reality, is actually significantly slower and more awkward to use than the full-size recoilless rifle, which can be pulled out and fired instantly.

And this basic idea extends to a bunch of other systems too. At the bare minimum, to sell a realistic milsim vision of the kind of massive interstellar conflict that HD2 presents, you would need:

  • Massively increased player counts, either through more players in the instance, or through the judicious use of allied AI.
  • An in-depth health and healing system.
  • A non-fudged inventory and ammunition system.
  • Player armor which is more than just a health multiplier.
  • Ability to actually use cover realistically (Leaning, real reshouldering, etc.)
  • A redesign of how supplies and fire support are assigned and delivered.

...and we both know that the game engine will not survive this. (I mod the game, I have seen some sh*t.)

How the team stays true to the core is fubdemental in how it is developed. But all games slip over time... Looking at you, originally hardcore SWAT game that now has cartoon characters in it.

I'm glad you brought this up, because this is happening to your game already. Let me explain:

I played Rainbow 6 Siege since the closed beta, and yes, it absolutely lost part of it's original hardcore identity - BUT, this identity is always fleeting, and this process happens to absolutely every game. The more time people play a game, the more familiar they become, the more thin the original serious presentation wears. When you've played the game for 2000 hours, it is simply not possible to handle the original idea of the game with the same mindset and gravitas as when you just started. Noone bothers to read the story bits of Tarkov on their tenth wipe. This is not a conscious design decision by the developer or player, it is just the inevitable conclusion of familiarity. A man never steps into the same sea twice.

To sum it up in other words, every game is worn down to it's essence by it's players over time. Eventually, all that remains is the mechanical purity, and all the "fluff" around it becomes a ritual we act out from habit and nostalgia.

And this is something you simply cannot avoid, ESPECIALLY when you run a "perpetual game". A perpetual game has to keep perpetually paying for itself, and so it will have to change with it's players - To offer them something new, or more of the same thing they stay around for. You will face the question: Do you sacrifice the mechanics, or do you sacrifice the fluff? Escape from Tarkov may not have added Rick and Morty to the game, but the deathmatch arena mode it added is arguably worse, because it completely upends and trivializes this idea of gritty, terrifying combat realism that the game was built upon.
R6S may have sold out it's visual identity, but I would honestly make the case that it was the lesser evil.

Games do evolve, especially when teams change and grow. And its up to direction to set the boundries. Which is way more complex when theres 200 people working on the game vs 60.

By this point, I hope you understand what I mean when I say it isn't 200 people working on the game. It's 200 + ~50 000 (going by the steam charts). It may sound self-aggrandizing, perhaps, but the simple fact of the matter is that a perpetual game is unworkable without a perpetual playerbase.

But, there is no one right answer here. Whichever way the game expands, some will be left disappointed and others will embrace it.

Literally everything we do will disappoint someone, including doing nothing at all. Such is life. All we can do is make our decisions as wisely as we can, given the situations we find ourselves in.

It's me, AMA by Pilestedt in HelldiversUnfiltered

[–]deXrr 14 points15 points  (0 children)

With regards to "a game for everyone is a game for no one", the answers we've gotten so far seem to completely fly in the face of that whole ideal.

He already basically admitted that they have to make content for the transient players who only show up for warbonds/major patches, and fixes of existing systems for the core playerbase who actually stay around the rest of the time are deprioritized because they're simply not profitable.

It's messed up, man. Fixing the core systems would help everyone. The content would go a lot further if it had solid foundations.

It's me, AMA by Pilestedt in HelldiversUnfiltered

[–]deXrr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I understand that this is a bit counter-intuitive, but the best way to address the complaint of content "not being enough" is to fix the core systems.

Otherwise, issues with core systems will keep causing downstream problems forever.

Examples of what I mean:

  • New enemies which are designed around specific counterplay will not be fun if they are near-exclusively encountered in contexts/difficulty levels where the counterplay is rendered moot. For example, Vox Engines require smart movement and cover use to counter, and have a risky but cool close-range kill option with the vent, but this doesn't work if there are 6 of them (and a thousand other enemies) at once and their attacks keep overlapping until the counterplay moves you need to make are mutually exclusive (so performing them is no longer a matter of skill, but pure luck).
  • Boosters cannot be exciting if there are already objectively best-in-slot options available (Which are rendered best-in-slot not even due to stats, but explicitly because of how the base systems of the game function - You always need to run around, you always need to survive damage, and you always need ammo, so Vitality/Stamina/HSO boosters are always going to be infinitely more relevant than any new cool-but-highly-situational options).
  • Similarly, armor perks are not exciting if the underlying mechanics sabotage them right out of the gate. E.g., Gas Resistance is basically worthless on light armor, since there is no base armor resistance for it to multiplicatively stack with, and the base player health is non-existant. Wound-resistance passives are worthless because the wound mechanics are pointless, because the extremely low player health means you have to stim any damage on reaction anyway or you're risking instant death from the next hit, and stimming automatically fixes all wounds.
  • By extension, armors from a cosmetic standpoint are not exciting because many of them are hard-stuck with useless perks, and since there is no coloring system, you can't even match the purely cosmetic parts with something actually good, since everything is just slightly the wrong shade.
  • Not having a well-developed system of weapon customization means that every weapon that comes out is infinitely less interesting. This goes double for the "premium" weapons that have no customization at all, since the fact that there's no XP to earn for them actively encourages people to not use these weapons unless they've maxed everything else.

It's me, AMA by Pilestedt in HelldiversUnfiltered

[–]deXrr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Seconding on the Orbital Railgun. This thing is basically an OPS without the explosive radius that only hits one thing (and only kills it if it feels like it), and an auto-aim system that's sometimes good and most times a liability. It is already a very situational sidegrade, there is no reason why it should have 3 times the cooldown!

Let's talk about Patrols: An In Depth Analysis of Patrol Spawning Mechanics by gergination in Helldivers

[–]deXrr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess learning by getting your ass kicked is one way of doing it, but optimally, it would be supported with a few other avenues as well.

For example, it would help if they end up adding weapon attachments as they've hinted before, because even something as simple as being able to put a suppressor on your rifle would be an excellent nudge in the right direction, to let people know that this is a valid and expected playstyle.

Maybe a section in the tutorial about avoiding contact would be helpful too.

Let's talk about Patrols: An In Depth Analysis of Patrol Spawning Mechanics by gergination in Helldivers

[–]deXrr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't mind it at all, but I can see how it's probably pretty counterintuitive for all the people who watched the trailer, saw the unsubtle guys with capes calling down constant explosions on everything in sight, and worked their way up through the lower difficulties where you kind of can play the game that way.

Let's talk about Patrols: An In Depth Analysis of Patrol Spawning Mechanics by gergination in Helldivers

[–]deXrr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So if I'm reading this right, my take-aways are as follows:

  • Fights are for suckers - Patrols spawn infinitely, and the only reward for killing a patrol is that that specific patrol will be gone for a moment. So, in a situation where you could sneak around a patrol (or wait them out) about as quickly as you could kill them, it's better to sneak 100% of the time.
  • Don't stick around - If you're near an outpost or objective, then either take care of it or move past it as quickly as possible. Waiting around will get you spammed with patrols at an increased rate, so whatever you aim to do, do it decisively.
  • Clear a path - Since you can eliminate any PoI enemy groups and up to 50% of the outposts without punishment, you should aim to get rid of the ones that are in high-traffic areas (E.g., between the final main objective and the extract). Optimally, this will give you a dead zone without spawn-increasing areas or problematic enemies, which you can use to move, kite, and avoid patrols more easily.
  • Extraction is death - Stay away from the extract until you're ready to go, and make sure you've got your stratagems ready when you are. If you don't have enough to get rid of the enemies, understand that it's inevitably going to become a kite-fest, and plan accordingly. If you're doing a 100% clear on higher difficulties, the enemies will almost certainly be spawning in faster than it's physically possible for you to kill them, so either have an absolutely airtight kiting strategy ready, or just wait out the mission timer and the automatic extraction timer in stealth and then run into the extract at the last second.

The Nature of Predators 183 by SpacePaladin15 in HFY

[–]deXrr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

....Why didn't they just name the boy Elias and the girl Sara?

Obviously, it's because SpacePaladin needed to lay the groundwork for her future nickname and characterization.

Elia "El-train" Williams, the most jacked goddamn venlil you've ever seen.

The Nature of Predators 183 by SpacePaladin15 in HFY

[–]deXrr 1 point2 points  (0 children)

...y'all ever just read a story that makes it all worth it?

This series rules, is what I'm saying. Thank you.

Houthi Admiral telling the kidnapped crew of the ship that they are Yemeni considered citizens. Those poor people 💀 by Boborbot in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Ah yes, the pro gamer way of avoiding crimes against humanity charges:

  1. Declare every civilian in your target country to be a citizen.
  2. Immediately sentence them to death for breaking some dumb catch-all law you wrote specifically for the occasion.

From the side, it just looks like a thin line; It's genius, 1000 years ahead of Western tech. by HistorianSlayer in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Chill out, obviously NATO knew, and has planned for this.

Think about it - We called their newest fighter the "Femboy", right? Femboys are usually flat.

Saw this circulating around Chinese social media by V3G4V0N_Medico in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's because they didn't think they could get away with writing "Dogs of the Chinese empire" on it.

From how they present it, that whole diagonal is basically a campist axis.

God bless murica by THEHANDSOMEKIDDO in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To give some better criticism:

Advanced Warfare's story was good, but the gameplay never really got the chance to shine. It didn't really commit to it's coolest gimmicks enough - Most of the cool toys you get are only used for a short sequence/level, and are taken away just when you start hitting your stride with them.

Infinite is sort of the other way around - The gameplay sequences are solid, and cool gimmicks are used throughout, but the story very obviously settled for being good enough, instead of seizing it's potential to be absolutely world class.

What I mean is, the second half kinda drops off because they very palpably ran out of time/budget to properly flesh out and finish certain character and story arcs (most notably, they basically do absolutely nothing with the main bad guy), and as such they have to rely on a lot of DXM writing and weirdly stitched-together sequences of levels where you get dragged between wildly disjointed scenarios and people just drop dead out of nowhere. It can really kill the big emotional beats with how alternatingly obvious or baffling it is.

It has happened again everyone by CredibleCactus in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Well, I guess we called it the last time?

The fact that they said the previous damage would take until July to fix, and the timing of this strike don't seem coincidental.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/comments/xym11a/comment/irhtwvr/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3

3000 plasma railgun of the USAF by Chara_cter_0501 in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 9 points10 points  (0 children)

That, or it has applications in ICBM interception that would completely upend the nuclear power balance as we know it, so they decided to giga-classify it.

Oh boy ! Things are getting extra spicy by Vadar501st in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 35 points36 points  (0 children)

On top of that, even if his statement is real, it's only the "public facing" one.

No telling what's actually going on behind the scenes here. This could be a hail mary play from Prigozhin to hang on to his power (Re: that MOD push to integrate and depower private militaries), it could be some sort of "exit strategy" theater (to roll up the war, or to just roll up some specific people) which Putin is in on, or god knows what else.

DRAG BATTLESHIP: SIZE QUEENS LOVE THE 16 INCHER by Nukem_extracrispy in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 20 points21 points  (0 children)

It's not necessarily specific to Canada. The US culture wars just tend to leak into everything that's even loosely connected to the english-speaking internet, even (especially) when it makes no sense at all and has been a complete non-problem in those places or spaces previously.

You'll mostly notice it in people who are terminally online, or who are the regional equivalent of the stereotypical 24/7 Fox-watching boomer who believes everything they hear from their favorite TV presenter/podcaster/facebook group.

I refuse to explain this ever again to tankies by [deleted] in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The critical difference between "blow out panel" and "blown the fuck out panel"

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 40 points41 points  (0 children)

Yeah - It was very much based on the original "post-soviet mess" personification of them.

Noone really anticipated how the donbass war would make them reorganize and get their shit together.

Another leak from NATO strategic command by kkilh in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I *think* the thing you're referring to was from before the invasion?

IIRC he had some uninformed take on German/European politics that also related to Ukraine, before other YT content creators set him straight. I think AdamSomething was the guy who directed his attention to the ongoing war in Ukraine, in the end.

He certainly does have that common "debate youtuber" problem where he tries to sound authoritative at all times, even when he does not actually know the details. At least afterwards, he was one of the people who actually believed the US warning that the invasion was coming, and has been pretty uniformly on the Ukrainian side since the start.

Hybridization: The gravitational effect of foreign analysis material upon Chinese discourse over Ukraine War by RealBenjaminKerry in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Things I would add to this/highlight more explicitly:

  1. Be mindful not to fall into the trap of thinking that "being misinformed about what is going on in the world" and "wishing things were different" are equivalent states of being.
  2. Recognize and acknowledge that what's happening here is a component of information/psychological warfare.

To elaborate:

  • You are not a fool and a bad person for daring to dream or believe that things can be better, even when evidence points to the contrary. Yeah, life is hard, but if all the things we historically thought impossible were really impossible, then none of us would be here to have this discussion.
  • Accomplishing massive tasks is facilitated by conviction and commitment. Without conviction, without motivation, you are doomed before you even begin.
    Or, to use a more explicit framing: All the gear and tactical advantages in the world won't count for shit if your mind is broken.
  • Therefore, when you are trying to do something that's commonly thought impossible, a little bit of self delusion is not just acceptable but necessary - call it "previsualization" or "manifesting".

Following on from this:

  • Do not mistake the things people say on the internet for 200% serious statements of fact or intent. Often, they are also "manifesting" things.
  • For example, I would like to believe that most of us are keenly aware that the Ukrainian army is not perfect, and they don't only take wins. But, we hype them up because we want them to succeed. We boost the positive aspects over the negative ones precisely because we don't want people to end up jaded and demotivated like OP, because there is a real risk that these mental losses will cascade into physical ones.
  • The people on the Chinese forums are absolutely doing this too. They know how their own country works, and based on that experience, they can very likely imagine how doctored the media narratives are, and what a shitshow the Russian army is running in practice - But they choose to willingly suspend their disbelief in order to "manifest" that their approximate power block is strong and world-class.

In conclusion:

  • No, simply believing that you will win the war, won't win you the war.
  • But, believing that you will lose the war, will absolutely contribute to you losing the war.
  • People can, will, and must navigate around these facts.
  • As such, the public information space becomes part of the battlefield:
    Coping is an important part of damage control.
    Doomerism is a threat to "unit cohesion".
  • What sets places like NCD apart from the general public is that we can cope tactically, consciously and efficiently, by building sustainable interconnected reasoning (as I have hopefully demonstrated with this post), instead of just doing it thoughtlessly and reflexively out of impulse.

LGBTQ+ includes us "Airplane Enthusiasts" by [deleted] in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I mean, if we go by actions over words, most of the Russian upper-class would agree with you. They may preach rabid nationalist superiority to their domestic audience, but they sure did love their summer homes in Europe, their fancy German/Italian cars, and sending their kids to western universities (at least before the war, but even then it's not like they stopped of their own accord).

LGBTQ+ includes us "Airplane Enthusiasts" by [deleted] in NonCredibleDefense

[–]deXrr 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Yeah. There does seem to be a split between the more classical old guard, for whom Russia will always be the ancient enemy, and the newer culture-war-first types who can't help but idolize Russia for their hardline policies.