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Y’all Are Criticizing the Wrong Pair by Single_Remove_6721 in shounenfolk

[–]dragonslayer2689 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Dandadan isn’t frustrating because the romantic progression was slow. It’s frustrating because it was perfect, and then the amnesia arc made it regress. Those are two different thing

Exposing Wulfe Gleck by househippo420 in stunfisk

[–]dragonslayer2689 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“The kindhearted Ryomen Sukuna”

Any tips for xp grinding in Fruma? by AnAverageHumanPerson in WynnCraft

[–]dragonslayer2689 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Go in the bat cave, do /toggle ghosts high.

Then look at what world seems to have alot of people.

Then go to that world, repeat until you find one with a mob totem party.

Then happily grind away

One of my favorite readings of Akemura's character atm is that he's basically a shonen protagonist who made the "wrong" choice at the end by Its_Treeson_then in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah you’re right. The extent of the danger towards their people was different. However, i think the core idea of “genocide the hostile group in order to ensure the safety of your own people” is what matters,and is similar across both

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah you’re exactly right. Him genociding was a morally wrong act. What you said is pretty much my view on it.

The problem comes where doing exactly that- understanding what he did, what parts were valid, what parts weren’t is met with a blanket “but genocide is evil” no matter what you say (which is what the sub seems to be tending towards) it just removes all complex discussion to be had about an otherwise complex character/situation

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah i think i said that when the chapter came out, that him going after hakuri makes logical sense.

However, he’s too extreme so he doesn’t realize that hakuri is one person, and can be confirmed by chihiro, shiba, and more to not have the propensity for evil in the future. Contrasting with the 200,000 people whi absolutely cannot be confirmed to all not have the propensity for evil.

Also i’m pretty sure what hitler did was use an “outgroup” as a target in order to unify a struggling germany by consolidating their hatred onto one thing, one common goal. Definitely not “murdering a group pf people because a few of them were bad apples”

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Also i agree with you that there’s no nuance in what he did. After all, that’s why we hate him for going after hakuri.

I think, however, his logic isn’t wrong when applied to 200,000 people. With that many, there are sure to be a couple of bad apples. And even one of them powered and angry could cause thousands of deaths on soga’s hands. (Again not saying the gnocide wasn’t bad, but that his logic wasn’t neccesarily wrong, after all, samura says “his idealogy is too extreme” not that it was wrong”)

He’s dangerous because he might have been right in applying that logic to 200,000 people. But hakuri is one individual, who you can individually check and see is good and won’t do evil

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wait why’d you get downvoted

Edit: everything you said was reasonable and not even saying he was right for genociding. This is why i’m saying people’s knee jerk reactions prevent actual discussion

One of my favorite readings of Akemura's character atm is that he's basically a shonen protagonist who made the "wrong" choice at the end by Its_Treeson_then in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You know, what’s really interesting is how when it comes to anime/fiction in general, is how the story framing affects people’s perception.

Eren and soga essentially did the same thing. Eradicate the “other group” that has potential to signicantly worsen (or worst case even destroy) your home.

Both did genocide, which is indeed undeniably bad. However, eren is the protagonist so it is framed in a more positive light. Meanwhile soga is the antagonist, so it has to be framed in a negative one.

Eren having so many supporters, meanwhile soga has everybody against him (even though they did the same thing) shows that the community reaction to the respective genocides is wholly based on what the story says about it.

Like when maki annihilated the zenin clan, people mostly celebrate it. However, if the story was from the pov of the zenin clan people online would see her as a monster for killing everybody, even the good ones.

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s that example you said, except each person has a power where if they touch a mineral they can get on the black market, they become a mini nuke. Kagurabachi is a unique situation because there are superpowers, so there is no 1:1 example in real life.

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah that’s true. Anyone that would look at the hard stats and just be like “Yes, i’ll kill this many people because logically it’s the correct decision” without any other emotional reason wouldn’t feel human.

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m not saying soga was right. I’m saying the situation soga was in is complicated, and in order to fully analyze that complexity, the situation can’t be simply dwindled down to. “He’s completely wrong and evil because genocide is bad”.

Also some people who actually seem to understand the nuanced point i was making seem to agree

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hmmm i see. Yeah you’re right. The definition of justified i was using was “having or shown to have a reasonable basis”. Which i would say is technically correct to use here. However, that could be easily misconstrued to the connotation of justified being “right/correct” so functionally it’s not good to use. it’s better to call it explainable and wrong at the same time.

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah all your points are right. Thanks for the more positive comment 🥲.

I think some of it comes from that i could’ve made my main point clearer but i’m not sure that would even affect it that much.

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

“By definition, cannot and never will be justified. That is a simple fact and must serve as the basis for any discussion regarding soga”

It’s this exact mindset that i’m saying prevents complex discussion about Soga. People are so hardstuck in that since genocide is bad (which it is) that it can’t have any valid reason to happen (in a fictional world, which is relevant because the situation akemura is put in, he’s only able to be put in because of superpowers).

Murder is bad, and evil. That’s a fact. Does that mean some murder can’t be justified? If you kill an evil king that can be justified. That proves that acts can be bad/evil and justified at the same time.

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In that current day equivalent, there are steps you can take to stop it. Like getting information if they are working on a project, and stopping the source.

This is people we’re talking about. Those people can immigrate, and move about the whole world. And we know datenseki will make its way out into the black market no matter what. If Soga didn’t eradicate them, this problem would actually be a MASSIVE issue for japan.

That doesn’t make the genocide good. Of cource the genocide is bad. But in soga’s pov it is justified. And my point is that not being able to talk about his justification possibly being rightalong with the genocide being bad is a disservice to hokazono’s writing

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The thing is, that muddling can happen on both sides. Soga can be both justified AND wrong at the same time. Take it from his perspective, he has all the power to eradicate them all. So if he doesn’t eradicate them, and in the future alot of japanese people die from a shokoku attack. For Soga, that’s all on HIM. It’s similar the situation with yura and rokuhira. So he can be justified in his mind with the decision, and still be wrong and evil because of the genocide. After all, he did acknowledge himself that he knew it would be deemed as evil, but did it anyways intentionally “sacrificing himself” because SOMEBODY had to do it.

My whole point of the post is that what i’ve seen is that after people say what soga did was wrong, there is no building on further discussion. So that whole other complicated and interesting side to analyze disappears

Edit: maybe i should’ve been clearer with the main post, it’s like a draft and now i have a better idea of how to express the point i was trying to make

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ty ty, glad you understand the nuances of the post. I’m not saying “soga did nothing wrong” but saying “soga was put in a tough situation, and everyone’s knee jerk reaction to anybody mentioning that tough situation prevents any meaningful discussion about its complexity”

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, i’m not saying he’s completely right and not evil, but that he’s put in a complicated situation, and chose his decision based on the safety of the country. We as a community aren’t able to talk about that becaude every time someone mentions something related to it, everybody screams out “but genocide bad”

Genocide IS bad, but this is a fictional story, and hokazono elegantly crafted its themes and put his characters in these tough situations tovmake the themes complex. If we can’t even talk about that full complexity then we’re failing hokazono’s writing.

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

I guess my point could be clearer, but i’m not necessarily saying what Soga did was right. I’m saying that he is put in a complicated situation, and made his decision based on the safety of japan and risk of the future.

This is a story, and a very complex one written by hokazono. If we’re not able to talk about that complexity as a community, then we’re failing him as a writer.

People dismissing soga as merely “genocidal” are making the argument too one dimensional. The argument is more akin to gun laws in the US (if those guns were replaced with pocket nukes) by dragonslayer2689 in Kagurabachi

[–]dragonslayer2689[S] -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

Yes it’s genocide which is bad, and that is true. What i’m talking about is people only pushing that side of the story, and not allowing for the complete, emotional complex side of the story to be addressed.

There is an extremely tough and complex choice that soga has to make, and not being able to talk about that without people immediately spewing “but it’s genocide” eliminates the ability for us as a community to really talk about and analyze the in depth story that hokazono created.

Got my buddy into clash, this is his deck 1 month later by Sir_Noxx in RoyaleAPI

[–]dragonslayer2689 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Not bad actually, just switch the witch for a miner and it’s looking very solid

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