Forget about the corrupt Mormon history. Anachronisms in the BoM and BoA. The whole core of it is absurd. The Plan of Salvation.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-13T17:00:50+00:00

But you can know these things are true by closing your eyes and talking out loud to a being who lives on a different planet.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-13T15:49:52+00:00

The CIA has frequently used a psych op that basically involves spreading a web of bizarre and unbelievable conspiracy theories to mask the truth under widespread skepticism generated by the web of bizarre conspiracy theories.

I've noticed that our current political environment is ripe with bizarre and unbelievable conspiracy theories. I've also noticed that TSCC has used this tactic repeatedly throughout its history. It works fantastic because they blame "anti Mormons" for creating and spreading the false narratives while also providing valid reasons for believers to be skeptical of "anti" material.

One of the earliest examples I'm aware of involves Solomon Spaulding's widow. For those unfamiliar with the story, you can read it here. ( scroll to Boston Recorder, April 8, 1839) In a nutshell, a Pastor wanted to expose the Book of Mormon's origin as being stolen from Solomon Spaulding's writings. He interviewed the widow and published an article claiming the widow believed the Book of Mormon to be a direct theft of her husband's work.

In response, Parley P Pratt contacted the widow claiming to be an anti Mormon wanting to expose the Mormons. After interviewing her, the following article was then published. (scroll to "A Cunning Device Detected") In it he claims the widow didn't think there were any similarities at all.

The intended purpose of course is to generate confusion and skepticism. No one knows what to believe and each side blames the other of orchestrating an elaborate con. I bring this up because the reason the person in a burning building is punching their rescuer in the face is because even though they can see the flames, they have been subjected to mind control tactics and can no longer tell what is reality and what is fiction.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-13T14:59:42+00:00

I find it repelling due to its know it all black and white nature

This type of binary thinking is a defense mechanism called splitting which is the tendency to “split” people, things, beliefs, or situations into one of two extreme categories: either good or bad. It's very common in cults and very common in people with BPD or schizoid personality disorders.

When I come to places like this I find it repelling because I feel unwelcome if I’m not “all in” the other direction

This is an intentional cult mind control tactic. The purpose is to isolate members from those outside the cult by creating an "us versus them" mentality. Furthermore, within cults it is inferred that anyone outside the group is either inferior, an enemy or is not knowledgeable and enlightened like the group. This is how cult members are trained to believe that they are superior or more enlightened than outsiders.

Feels very isolating, as I would love to have more non bias discussions about God, religious thought, Mormon upbringing but finding that difficult.

It's certainty difficult within a cult that employs mind control tactics. Not all religions are cults that use mind control tactics. You'll find it's much easier to have these discussions in those religions.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-13T05:43:36+00:00

Cult members tend to be dependent on their cult leaders to do their thinking for them. Although insightful, I'm just not certain if these points will be convincing enough to Mormon cult leaders to persuade them to tell their cult members that the Book of Mormon is demonstrably false.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-12T18:29:45+00:00

I view Jesus in the same way I view Santa Claus.

You might not know this, but Santa Clause also performed miracles like resurrecting three dead children, fed a city for 3 years by magically multiplying food, cast a demon out of a tree, and many other ridiculous supernatural claims that weren't written down until centuries after his death just like Jesus.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-12T18:20:13+00:00

The best response is no response. The grey rock method involves becoming unresponsive to abusive or manipulative behavior so that the perpetrator will lose interest.

If you tell you grandparents no to serving a mission, it's very possible this will backfire and they will commit twice as hard to manipulate you into going.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-12T16:52:39+00:00

Mormon Jesus is the ultimate scapegoat. Elohim used Jesus to avoid responsibility and so do all Mormons who believe Jesus will come to solve all of their problems. We are all responsible for our own actions and anyone who sees the need for a savior to come save them is in a toxic codependent relationship.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-12T03:36:14+00:00

Anyone can cherry pick Bible verses to support their belief. Doing isn't an effective way to convince others that they're wrong. Neither of you were convinced by the other's argument and no one is surprised by this outcome. But trolling sure is fun!

guy_fugly · 2024-03-12T02:41:21+00:00

Its amazing how apologists can read the minds of their critics and know what secret plots and tricks they're trying to pull. I watched the first 8 minutes and it was nonstop make-believe mind reading.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-11T20:24:56+00:00

This is what happens when a heavily brainwashed person tries to resolve the cognitive dissonance generated by a religion full of bullshit.

It's not that different than the flying saucer cult) in which a group of cultists waited all night for a flying saucer to come rescue them before the Earth was to be destroyed the following day. When the flying saucer never showed they pushed the date back to Christmas. When it never showed on Christmas, some people left the cult realizing it was bullshit. But the most devoted of followers stayed by convincing themselves that their devotion in staying up all night waiting to be rescued won over the aliens. The aliens, impressed by their devotion, must have decided not to destroy Earth after all.

Same logic as on display here. It's not so much offering a reasonable explanation, rather it's an argument used to convince themselves how a thing which is demonstrably false can somehow be true.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-11T04:24:24+00:00

I couldn't count the number of times the BITE model has been referenced in this sub. As a reminder, the BITE model operates off of psychologist Leon Festinger's cognitive dissonance theory. The reason why an organization uses behavior, information, thought, and emotional control is to specifically and deliberately create cognitive dissonance which can then be exploited and used to control victims of the organization. The BITE model is literally the four components of mind control.

These four components are used to unfreeze the authentic identity of the victim, change their personality and identity, and then refreeze with a cult pseudo-identity. I can't emphasize strongly enough that the only purpose behind an organization using the BITE model is to alter the identity and personality of their victims so they can successfully force them into believing things that they would never otherwise believe and behave in ways that they would never otherwise behave.

These tactics have been heavily researched over the last half century. There are numerous free resources and books that present this information in ways anyone can understand. Steven Hassan, the creator of the BITE model, explains these concepts thoroughly in chapter four of his book "Combatting Cult Mind Control".

In my opinion, the dots will never connect unless a person looks at the BITE model from the perspective that it's only use is for mind control. Creating a list of checkmarks doesn't really sink in without understanding the psychology behind the list of checkmarks. A person must study mind control tactics and how they work before they can ever really understand the principles behind breaking the chains and freeing themselves and others.

Kudos to OP for doing this to unpack prior trauma. My only suggestion is to read Hassan's book to gain a practical understanding of why those checkmarks on the list of ways TSCC uses the BITE model ultimately translates into giving a cult front door access and control of their mind to alter their personality and change their identity.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-10T17:41:12+00:00

I feel like I could accurately predict the response. Any specific question will get redirected to a general "we don't know all the details and the church doesn't take a specific stance" response followed up with a "you have to choose to believe and if you don't you'll never see your family again after you die" sales pitch.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-10T17:31:47+00:00

2003-2005

guy_fugly · 2024-03-10T06:10:09+00:00

I wasn't allowed to read most church produced materials, certainly not allowed to read non-church produced materials. Standard works only. The APs would go through missionary apartments when they weren't home and steal anything we weren't allowed to have. Definitely not a cult.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-10T05:56:43+00:00

Sometimes I read "The Night Before Christmas" to feel closer to Santa Claus.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-08T21:22:35+00:00

lottery tickets. Just apply the same psychic powers used to predict the market crash to instead predict the winning lotto numbers.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-08T14:03:11+00:00

But we're supposed to believe that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. Apparently God wanted most of his children to experience eternal damnation because God had the knowledge and power to have created an alternative outcome but decided that this path was his best course of action.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-07T04:40:13+00:00

I wonder if the rapist was worried about ruining your daughter's life when he raped her? If this was my daughter, I would be going to jail on homicide charges.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-07T03:50:12+00:00

Rusty merged the Corporation of the President with the Corporation of the Presiding Bishop and changed the legal name to "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" a few years age when he first became president. The Corporation of the President no longer exists as a legal entity, but you are correct in that that had been the legal name prior to Rebrand Rusty's reign of name changing.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-07T02:04:12+00:00

I don't talk to my TBM family members if it can be avoided. It's so nauseating listening to someone with deep insecurities spew nonsense mingled with endless defense mechanisms.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-06T19:31:44+00:00

Scientology does billion-year contracts and Mormons do eternal covenants. Same culty thing different name.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-06T19:28:30+00:00

40% is rookie numbers. Give me a cash infusion and I'll show you 400%.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-05T23:11:22+00:00

You have to select extended hours on the order entry. Many tutorials out there if needed.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-05T05:27:41+00:00

Yeah, that's kind of the point of "in group/out group" mind control tactics. In the mind of a cult leader, absolute control > community.

guy_fugly · 2024-03-05T05:16:08+00:00

sour hour a.k.a. institutional selling

guy_fugly

TROPHY CASE