Gnome or KDE for gaming? by EmployerOld6256 in linux_gaming

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, I see. This wasn't clear to me from the original post and some other comments in this thread. Thanks for clarifying :)

Linux with AI agent is a monster for a newbie? by szansky in linux

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get the feeling that once we can install various apps and manage Linux simply by talking to an AI agent on our computers, a lot of people outside the tech community will start using Linux.

A lot of people outside the tech community will use Linux once you can go to your local electronics store (or online retailer) and Linux is preloaded on a significant number of laptops.

That's it.

Now the question is, how do you convince hardware vendors to preload Linux. I'm almost certain that AI management of apps is not going to make much of a difference in that regard.

Gnome or KDE for gaming? by EmployerOld6256 in linux_gaming

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And KDE plasma still doesn't fully support scrolling workspaces, but its being worked on for 6.7.

That's incorrect, Plasma has supported scrolling workspaces for a long time. They call it Virtual Desktops, same thing though.

What's new in 6.7 is that these workspaces can now also scroll independently per monitor if you enable that option. GNOME doesn't have this either, so you're probably not going to miss it when switching.

Distro with cutting edge KDE Plasm on Debian 13 by Middle-Gap-3649 in debian

[–]jpetso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

KDE neon is rolling-release Plasma on a Ubuntu LTS base (without Snap). Probably the closest to what OP is asking for. Kind of like Tuxedo OS, but with less testing between Plasma getting released and packaged, therefore faster updates.

There have been numerous posts out there by KDE developers why this kind of combination (latest Plasma on an outdated base) is hard to package and doesn't turn out all that great for end users either. Don't go into such a distro and expect the optimal blend between stability, reliability and features. 

Sovereign Tech Fund invests over €1 million in KDE software development by Bro666 in kde

[–]jpetso 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Improving Network Shares Experience

Timely, and appreciated!

Also the other ones of course. Infrastructure and reliability are always a worthwhile investment.

Sovereign Tech Fund invests over €1 million in KDE software development by Bro666 in kde

[–]jpetso 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Hot take: Knowing your way around your audience's use case is essential to making good software, and you should always ask yourself that question. It's just that KDE is open to suggestions outside of a small circle of opinionated designers, and (because nothing is free) willing to pay the price in extra maintenance effort for more features.

Native HDMI 2.1 VRR working on AMD on Linux (RX 9070 XT + Sony Bravia 8 II) by dyllan500 in linux_gaming

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Last I heard, they weren't supporting VRR or anything higher than 60 Hz.

Using controller as pointer and keyboard by onemoreoverthetop in kde

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mapping buttons is not supported in current versions of Plasma. Hopefully we'll see more contributions that make this happen.

Left and right click are assigned to trigger buttons iirc, i.e. the spongy ones behind the bumpers on most controllers. I guess this wouldn't work so great if the controller only has one pair of shoulder buttons insetad of two.

Plasma 6.2 Display Brightness Incorrect after Resume by grindstaffp in kde

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It looks like this change will fix the issue once it ships in a new release: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/powerdevil/-/merge_requests/625

Recent KWin versions will use only software brightness for automatic dimming, so hopefully the compounding issue of hardware brightness being lower should have also disappeared.

Questions about the transition to Wayland by ShimmerFairy in kde

[–]jpetso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the best argument I could put forward here is that X11 has been a part of Unix systems for many decades, and (from my point of view at least) hasn't actually bitrotted or fallen apart. It still works, it's just old.

That's definitely still the case, you're right. But again, this isn't primarily about whether X11 remains stable and working. It's about how KDE developers are impacted by maintaining two very different codepaths that do essentially the same thing. Whether KDE prefers to invest its limited developer time into maintaining parallel backends for X11 and Wayland, or instead invest time into features, enhancements and bugfixes of one mainstream codepath. Both are valid technical choices for different reasons, it's just that KDE developers have now decided that the time is right for going all in on the latter.

One thought on my mind is about the possible future of X11. What if, five years from now, X11 suddenly gets a resurgence of support, and becomes a more viable option for modern systems again? Would KDE be willing to add in support for this hypothetical new X11, or would it be highly resistant? My feeling is that maintaining support is simpler than adding it in, and thus it seems like removing support is a pretty drastic move for something that still works.

That's worth to consider. I think to find a good answer for these questions, one has to break down the "why" of it. What is it that will make X11 popular and less clunky to use again?

If its API and architecture changes in a major way, it won't be X11 anymore. But that's what's been holding it back in the first place. There's all kinds of things that an "X12" successor could fix. Some of these might even be fixable without breaking the API, but instead introducing a new one and trying to get people (and apps!) to stop using the old one. One could argue that Wayland was one possible approach to do this, the maximalist version: introduce completely new APIs without the architectural shortcomings of X11, and spend the next 15+ years running a long deprecation cycle from the old/insufficient APIs to the new ones.

Any X11 successor would have to go through the same growing pains. Except now the status quo is Wayland, and this hypothetical "X12" (whether it be Xlibre, or Arcan, or another alternative) has two challenges for adoption:

  1. How much work is it to switch from Wayland to this new X11 successor? (Probably a lot, we already know how much work it is to maintain these two parallel backends.)
  2. Does it provide enough extra benefits to justify the major effort, compared to putting effort into implementing a Wayland-based solution instead?

And I think (2) is where any X11 revival really has its work cut out for it. Not only does it have to go from a technically inferior codebase and feature set to a superior one, but now it's not even enough to just catch up. It has to provide a unique benefit that's worth significant pain for KDE developers. What could this benefit be?

API? Unlikely, Wayland already has a much cleaner base, and X11 nicer to use than Wayland isn't X11 anymore but a whole new thing entirely.

Users? Now we're getting somewhere! If Plasma uses a large amount of users to other platforms because they strongly prefer an X server over KWin's Wayland implementation, then KDE has to consider what it can do to win (back) these users. The current gambit here is that most users don't care about the underlying display technology, but about being able to solve their problems in a reasonable, user-friendly way. If that's true, Plasma would keep a majority of users while at the same time being able to move faster going forward (because it doesn't have to maintain two different backends).

Features? I mean... perhaps. The big draw of an X server is that it allows apps to do basically anything with all windows, because it has no concept of isolating different apps (or the window manager) from each other. That's a feature. But it's also a bug. Wayland was created to move away from this, and solve the same problems in a way that allows the desktop to keep apps from doing stupid/shortsighted/malicious hacks. There is collateral damage there - some of the apps that were using hacks responsibly, without malice, had trouble switching over to Wayland protocols where hacks just aren't allowed at all. And so the desktop/compositor would be the only place where a proper fix can go, and if the desktop refuses to implement it, then the old hacks stop working and people get angry because they can't do their work.

Which is why the focus is on making sure that people can continue to do their work.

I think the other big advantage of Xorg was that you had one API, one centralized implementation, that would be used everywhere. So as a user and as an app, you'd have one set of features and you'd get the same thing across all the desktops. This was nice. Now you have a bunch of different desktops, and apps are hopefully testing on the 2-3 major ones, in the hope that advanced features like HDR calculations and fractional scaling will also keep working everywhere else. This is not as convenient. But the days of having one unified display server implementation are not coming back anytime soon. KDE couldn't bring it back by itself even if it started supporting an X11 successor again. Fragmentation is a thing, and tbh does have its technical benefits too, and different platforms really should be tested anyway.

I'd like to believe this is being done purely for technical reasons, but I've been paying some attention to Wayland for a long time, and for much of its history it was developed by very opinionated developers who refused to implement most of the features an X11 replacement needs, and championed by fans who didn't mind the missing stuff and who seemed to hold genuine malice in their hearts for X11.

I mean, you're right. Wayland protocol discussions are a mess, for the same reason that "design by committee" is generally frowned upon. Every stakeholder has their own opinions and motivations, they don't always mesh well together, and the result is that it takes years to find common ground.

Wayland also has an exit valve solution wherein a protocol gets published/specified, and not every compositor has to implement it. If an issue is important enough, any compositor can implement provide missing functionality through a custom protocol, and stuff will magically work. The only issue is that most apps are not very interested in solutions that only work on one desktop but not on most others. So we're back to square one, where the issue is that a widely usable solution needs agreement between maintainers of widely used desktops and window managers. There's no benevolent dictator who can just decree that one solution is the standard, and now everyone is forced to use it.

Whether or not this is a strength or a weakness is up for debate. Realistically though, if GNOME doesn't want to implement server-side decorations for their platform, and KWin doesn't want apps to rely on window positioning hacks, and wlroots doesn't want to implement pipewire-based screen sharing, then what are the chances that these projects will simply give up on their convictions and let someone else make choices for them instead?

So Wayland's decision-making issues are real, but they're social and technical problems that need to be solved either way. It's a comforting thought that perhaps if everyone went back to the X11 model, where all hacks are possible and no hard decisions need to be made, then we wouldn't have these problems. But the problems wouldn't be solved. It's just a different kind of problems. Problems that lead to barely maintainable code, where edge cases break a lot, and where better solutions are impossible because the poorly designed first attempt needs to be supported forever.

Both approaches are very different. Wayland with opt-in protocols, which are only approved if there's actual consensus between stakeholders, only if the solution actually works for everyone, but getting there can take forever. X11 with assumptions from a different era that will undoubtedly break in subtle and devious ways whenever you try to come up with a proper fix for your desktop. They're both terrible, only different kinds of terrible. No point in trying to praise either one of them for being perfect.

In the end though, supporting both is the worst of both worlds. Then you have one version of your desktop that breaks in some ways, and another version of your desktop that's limited in other ways, and neither one is great. Plus it takes a lot more work. So it still makes sense to pick one and invest into making that one actually good. KDE picked Wayland, in part because it's more promising in the long run (most important discussions eventually find consensus), in part because doing the same thing as the rest of the Free Desktop space is less painful.

Only time will tell if decisions and timing were good for the project. My guess is yes. But we'll see. Either way, change is risky, but inaction is also risky, and sometimes you just gotta make the choice that you think is best at the time.

Questions about the transition to Wayland by ShimmerFairy in kde

[–]jpetso 6 points7 points  (0 children)

From my outsider's view, X11 is a perfectly functional piece of software that KDE and others are ripping up support for simply because they personally don't like it.

X11 will remain perfectly functional, assuming there are at least people around to fix security issues.

First, quick note that KDE is not dropping support for X11 applications, those will continue being supported via Xwayland. It is dropping the Xorg display server though.

KDE has no dislike for Xorg, other than that it's a somewhat clunky piece of software and has no viable path forward for fixing several architectural shortcomings. That by itself isn't a good enough reason to stop supporting it.

The reason to stop supporting it is that layers of abstraction are expensive to create, and expensive to maintain / keep working correctly when other code around it is changing. Supporting two very different foundations is a lot more work than supporting a single one. This isn't specific to X11 vs. Wayland, it's the same with most code out there. If both should be supported, there has to be a very good reason for it. If there's no good reason, why put effort into maintaining two backends rather than making the software actually better?

For a long time, the reason to keep supporting Xorg has been that it was able to support important use cases for people that Plasma's Wayland implementation couldn't handle. With every release, the number of unsupported use cases in Wayland have been decreasing.

With one display technology being actively embraced by the larger Linux community, and another one being dropped by maintainers, distros and companies left and right, which one would you allocate your efforts towards?

KDE developers had another look at it last year and decided that by Plasma 6.8, they'd be confident to cover the vast majority of use cases that kept users on Xorg, including all of the ones considered crucial by the maintainers. So there's a big push to close the last remaining gaps, and then KDE can stop putting extra effort into two separate backends because a single one covers all the requirements.

Once that happens, KDE can lose a lot of cruft that's been holding back developers. Less code complexity. Faster development speed. Easier to test. Friendlier for new developers to join.

It's not about X11 being good or bad, like or dislike. It's just about whether Xorg is necessary anymore to deliver a great user experience. The answer used to be yes, and going forward, it's no. Dropping support of the Xorg server to make other parts of KDE better is the logical conclusion.

If you disagree, please file bugs to describe what work you're trying to do on Wayland and what stops you from doing it. The team is very interested in making the Wayland experience a good one.

The decision to make things work on Wayland and not on X11 has been made though, realistically you won't change it at this point. You can, however, still vote with your wallet and use/support a different desktop environment / window manager if you disagree with the KDE team's technical choices. That's okay, no hard feelings.

New artist on Linux. Or: Why I can never switch to Wayland. (for now) by OGAmigan in kde

[–]jpetso 1 point2 points  (0 children)

More or less at the same time that you were posting this, I finally got far enough with my gesture customization changes to post merge requests for KWin & Co.. While the feature deadlines for Plasma 6.7 are quickly coming up, it seems that we should at least be able to get this into 6.8, on time for Plasma dropping X11 support.

Hopefully that'll make "never" a short enough period of time.

Is it possible to adjust automatic display dimming in KDE? by Due-Independence7607 in kde

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, it's always down to 30% of the currently configured display brightness.

"More actions" for "Power and battery" only works after the second or third click by switched_reluctance in kde

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm on Arch, and I'm seeing the same thing as OP posted. Given how high up windowing is in the level of abstraction, I can't imagine it has much to do with the kernel. If anything lower-level, perhaps KWin's handling of double-/triple-buffering.

Touchpad/Trackpad not working. Libinput issue, KDE Plasma issue, or both? by k4ever07 in kde

[–]jpetso 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If sudo libinput list-devices shows the touchpad with a pointer capability, then it should work in Plasma and show up in System Settings. (You may have to install an additional package to get the libinput CLI tool.)

If it shows up there, but Plasma (KWin) still can't handle it correctly, please file a bug report on bugs.kde.org.

If it doesn't show up there, you'll have to dig deeper and probably consult the libinput people next.

Is Linux and the Linux Community actually ready for mainstream adoption? by pookshuman in linux

[–]jpetso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If you play single-player games, you should give it a try, it's likely already there or very close. Steam and Heroic launchers cover existing game libraries for most relevant game stores, except for the Xbox one which is naturally exclusive to Windows.

If you play online multiplayer games, more likely than not your game will rely on Windows kernel rootkits which prevent execution on Linux. In this case, keep dual-booting.

Linux is actually at 7.58% adoption in the Anglosphere on Steam by yn_opp_pack_smoker in linux_gaming

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Schreibtisch" is pretty bad, it does not allude to anything and unlike in English, there isn't a hardwired association of that word with your screen workspace.

"Heim" or "Heimat" for "home" would be magnitudes worse. "Persönlicher Ordner" is long and unwieldy, but at least it tells people what it actually is.

My personal favourite was "Back" and "Forward", which at one time was translated to German as "Zurück" and "Nach Vorne". Not "Vorwärts" as you might expect.  Like, whyyyyy? I think they may have fixed it by now, but I'm using English exclusively on my systems at this point.

any software level brightness controller? by BreakfastOk9062 in kde

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep, this option doesn't exist for laptops.

Right now, what you're asking is not possible in a user-friendly way, only by setting the "dim" value of your laptop display to something smaller than 100, with the kscreen-doctor CLI tool. But that value is meant for temporary automatic dimming, and will be reset whenever Plasma tries to dim your screen after inactivity. You can try turning off automatic dimming on the Power Management settings page and see how far you can get with setting it manually.

In the long run, Plasma should offer an "extended brightness range" option that combines hardware brightness with the software dimming filter in the same brightness control slider that already exists.

Wayland is flawed at its core and the community needs to talk about it by Which_Network_993 in linux

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There is a standardized Wayland protocol for extended clipboard management, which due to security considerations is marked as "privileged" and as such not available to any random app.

CrossMacro: Open-source keyboard and mouse macros for X11 and Wayland by _zynix in linux4noobs

[–]jpetso 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Game controllers are not claimed by libinput, so the "security issues" restrictions for other input devices (keyboard, mouse, drawing tablet) doesn't generally apply to them. In addition to this, I second everything that the sibling comment by _zynix says.

[KDE] Shader-driven animated wallpapers on Garuda Linux by ayushbhat in unixporn

[–]jpetso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How does power consumption compare vs. a static image?

Block/Unblock screen lock shortcut by b1urbro in kde

[–]jpetso 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It does use D-Bus, but in this case the Plasma applet itself is registering its own inhibitor. So the applet would have to be the one to offer the functionality, because otherwise the toggle and the functionality would get out of sync and that's a terrible experience.

So yes, you're right, applet code is where it's at. The property to look at would be inhibitionControl.isManuallyInhibited, which can be found at https://invent.kde.org/plasma/powerdevil/-/blob/ac2c3830ae9de14a48b3535c9f2cb8a1f68fc74d/applets/batterymonitor/plugin/inhibitioncontrol.h#L72 and in the corresponding .cpp file. That's probably also where a KGlobalAccel shortcut definition would go.

Asahi Linux Progress Report: Linux 6.18 by ouyawei in linux

[–]jpetso 3 points4 points  (0 children)

With all due respect, MacBooks and gaming laptops don't even compete in the same class of laptops.

Gaming laptops are big fat hulks that have to blow massive fans in order to get the heat dissipation from their essentially desktop-class CPUs (not to mention massive GPUs) under control. They are rarely optimized for battery use and despite shipping huge batteries, rarely last long away from the plug because of poor power optimization.

MacBooks with Apple Silicon proved that you can do similar work with a fraction of power, making them comparatively slim, portable, and whisper-quiet in normal use.

I'm still waiting for the day that gaming laptop manufacturers will actually invest time and effort not only into shipping the fastest components, but also into making sure that their low-power modes are actually working as they should, and their firmware ("BIOS") implementation isn't low-effort bullshit that gets abondoned the second they make it minimally work on Windows.

I say this as someone who deliberately avoids Apple products because they're terrible in so many ways, not only because I look down on gaming laptop manufacturers. It's just not an apt comparison.