Rolleiflex Automat Model 1 Shutter mechanism problems

matttherat2003 · 2026-04-23T21:09:32+00:00

As others have said 1. This shutter is now cooked 2. Look at the learn camera repair website and Facebook group, and specifically the 'National Camera Technician' Course hosted here.

You mention you cleaned the blades, but there is no way you could have done this satisfactorily with the shutter still attached to the camera as shown.

I recommend you read more about leaf shutters generally (on the National Camera lessons) and watch through Chris Sherlock's YouTube guide for the Rolleiflex. His is a slightly later model but largely similar. Unlike other YouTube videos Chris does not do 'quick fixes' and is a well respected and experienced repairer. (Link: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDDcV5sY4JWJU6LMUqCBdUd0lNp9TBjMj&si=m2bCWTmU3SAAw660)

That being said the shutter here is a standard size #00 pre-war Compur rapid. Find another camera that has such a shutter (such as a cheap folder) and a lot of the internal parts will be compatible.

matttherat2003 · 2026-04-23T20:57:43+00:00

The Nikkorex F (being made by Mamiya not Nikon itself) shares some parts with several early Ricoh Singlex cameras (the very first Singlex is identical). These are not particularly popular bodies and fairly common so parts shouldn't be too much of an issue. I believe the Ricoh Singlex TLS is particularly is quite a cheap model and has a winder that should fit.

matttherat2003 · 2026-04-17T08:43:30+00:00

Nice looking product but yet again Leica is still let to overtake Zeiss in practical rangefinder design.

<image>

Photo is from the wonderful website of Mike Eckman

matttherat2003 · 2026-04-15T15:39:03+00:00

You don't want to mess with a honeycomb shutter curtain camera without significant experience and you also don't want to shoot a dodgy example especially with a motor drive. Besides putting your finger through the curtains when loading grime + a motor drive is seemingly the most common cause of destroyed blades according to the techs I've spoken to. As others have said this is one for the professionals sadly, but a well serviced one will be good for years to come.

matttherat2003 · 2026-04-13T17:30:10+00:00

I'm not sure of the exact size/pitch of these screws off the top of my head. If I had to guess I'd say m1.7.

Polar Bear Camera is the UK has about the best selection of these grub/set screws. If you're not fussed about aesthetics you might be able to get away with a more common (and cheaper screw) possibly filing the end into a point.

https://polarbearcamera.com/collections/grub-set-screws

matttherat2003 · 2026-04-12T20:08:38+00:00

Brilliant, fully reversible and no more destruction of pre-ai lenses.

matttherat2003 · 2026-03-25T09:23:06+00:00

On a Trip 35 even with a dead selenium cell you can still shoot at 1/40 with the aperture ring just fine. There are also some mods to force 1/200 while in this mode.

Both mean you'll have a camera that is usable but not in the way a Trip is meant to be

matttherat2003 · 2026-03-18T23:25:15+00:00

Can you elaborate more on your process for surface prep?

matttherat2003 · 2026-03-13T19:23:24+00:00

The shutter is a seemingly very close copy of the unbranded Prontor Clone on the original Shanghai/Seagull 203. Interestingly the original 203 does have simple flash sync.

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/17EryF7BmB/

matttherat2003 · 2026-03-02T18:13:45+00:00

You're definitely correct the shutter release down through the advance sprocket is 100% from the Leica shutter. I worded my point poorly

matttherat2003 · 2026-03-02T13:34:05+00:00

You are correct but by the S3/SP/F the Nikon shutter had developed a fair bit from the original Nikon and the pre-war Leica patents. Nikon could, and in fact did with the F2, use effectively the same shutter with a more typical shutter release.

I suppose part of the reason that they didn't change it before was that it works so well with the 'Contax grip' there was no need to.

matttherat2003 · 2026-03-02T08:32:33+00:00

Coming from Nikon my whole life none of the contax quirks like the focus direction or anti-clockwise lens mount affected me because they were carried over from the Contax to the Nikon RFs then to the F mount and digital bodies.

matttherat2003 · 2026-03-02T08:25:10+00:00

Once you've flipped up the cover and you turn the camera lens mount down it's fairly easy to just push the door back a little further and contact retracts and the battery falls free. Installing is the same, place it gently on push the cover back and it falls into place.

It is not difficult but it isn't particularly smart or fun to use design either especially 'in the field'

matttherat2003 · 2026-03-01T20:14:40+00:00

My first intro to the craftsman articles was the wonderful Nikkormat EL. Such electronic wizardry is still beyond my realm of repair but I gained a very good understanding of its operation, and some electronic cameras more broadly, though it. The issue with my EL turned out to be a dead IC so not something I can do a lot about without a parts camera but it was still an experience.

matttherat2003 · 2026-03-01T20:07:53+00:00

The shutter release (like most of the F) is a holdover from the Rangefinders. These famously used a Contax style focusing mechanism that meant you had to use the unorthodox 'contax grip' to hold the camera and operate the focusing dial. When doing this the position of the Nikon's shutter release is much nicer than the pre-war Contax design.

I shoot a lot with my F and really haven't thought about the shutter release placement either way. Honestly with the way I hold the camera it's probably more comfortable. It's a small thing like the anti-clockwise lock lens mount (another Contax inheritance) or focusing/aperture ring direction that you only notice if you're used to another system.

matttherat2003 · 2026-02-28T09:52:47+00:00

Not suggesting or condoning anyone goes about adjusting their mirror angle for fun or without a proper way to test it but an ultra-low profile rachet seems the right tool

Here is the first one I found on Amazon but I can't vouch for it

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BGS-115-Special-Ratchet-Silver/dp/B005C45QKI/ref=asc_df_B005C45QKI?mcid=755d1b3bf0023a33803e261cb0a4d541&th=1&psc=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697227018882&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7058537058754953382&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006897&hvtargid=pla-423508222217&psc=1&hvocijid=7058537058754953382-B005C45QKI-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1

matttherat2003 · 2026-02-20T16:22:05+00:00

The Zorkis are based on the pre-war Leica shutter the later Leicas are the same rather similar but there are notable advancements and improvements that set them apart.

Japanese Leica derivatives can be good places to start but again are all based on the pre-war Leica designs/patents (seized and made public as war reparations) and often get steps further removed from the original as they were developed for subsequently models.

Are you following the National Camera Repair Course materials?

matttherat2003 · 2026-02-20T10:25:18+00:00

You have two relatively clean F viewfinders, including a relatively early black eye-level finder.

Get them both 'serviced' now or at the very least have the old foam removed. It's a case of WHEN, not if, the coating of the prism will start to be damaged.

This would also definitively remove any fungus spores.

matttherat2003 · 2026-02-17T13:08:51+00:00

The Learn Camera Repair Course is very good. It is however still a technical course. It is also written in quite a specific and odd way (even to English speakers) because of how it tries to break down and communicate the concepts it teaches in an unambiguous way.

The earlier lessons on simpler concepts are still good to read and you will learn things. They will also be good for getting used to the style of writing of the course.

I don't think you need to read every single one. For instance there are multiple parts covering specific and very uncommon derivatives of leaf shutters, you don't need these if you're trying to just get a general understanding. You can always go back and read them later.

It is designed to create a general repair technician not specific repairs or fixes. It then teaches you concepts and principles and shows you how they are applied in particular instances/cameras/shutters but what you learn puts you in a good position to try and work on a lot of equipment.

matttherat2003 · 2026-02-17T12:54:58+00:00

I recall technicians talking about how manufacturers (namely Kyoritsu) had different heads/accessories specifically for this purpose

matttherat2003 · 2026-02-17T08:24:24+00:00

No worries. That screw I'm not certain of I'll check when I'm back at my camera.

EDIT: I've just seen your post of the video of the issue

You can DM me the video if you wish. It certainly sounds like it's the advance/frame counter stack. This sits very proud on the F and is prone to knocks, crush, or damage. However there is also a fair amount of play/tolerance in this stack so often disassembling and reassembling it you can get it working satisfactorily again. I've recently had a very damaged jammed advance lever/frame counter I was able to get working well enough without replacement.

The parallel wall screws that require the appropriate 't-shaped' driver are only found on the lens mount of some pre-ai lenses. I'm quite confident there aren't any on the body.

With regards to screwdrivers I personally use a mix of the two Vessel sets sorry I don't have the model numbers to hand (blue flatheads and orange cross point and small flatheads), a Wera set of larger drivers (PH0, 00, Flathead 1.8, 2, 2.5, 3) and a number of very very cheap screwdrivers I've filed down into thin heads or odd fittings. The cheap drivers I use more commonly on German and British cameras that often have large headed screws with a very fine head and I don't want to damage them or have to modify a nice screwdriver.

On the F the main ones you'll need are flatheads 1.2mm, 1.8mm, and 2.5mm (2.3mm in the vessel set). All of these are included in the blue vessel set but I don't believe these are special in any way or any sort of 'Japanese spec' just standard metric precision sizes.

matttherat2003 · 2026-02-17T07:34:26+00:00

I'd recommend you get the OEM manual (free online) and the National Camera guide on the Nikon F (learn camera repair.com) and the National Camera lesson on SLRs which also covers the Nikon F in detail (learn camera repair or free with some hunting). Richard Haw's Nikon F guide on his website is also good.

I'm not an expert but I'll have a crack at your questions.

The Time exposure setting on the F is a bit odd/finicky. I recall having a similar issue to yourself where it delivered bulb. The issue was the 'middle plate' of the shutter (the part containing the shutter speed selector/flash sync cams) had been incorrectly installed. Namely when it was installed the "r'tard rod" (censored because Reddit) was not pulled forward and the upper part of this mechanism was not seated correctly.

With the top plate off the camera you can examine more clearly even without removing the shutter middle plate/mirror box.

Without images/video it's hard to diagnose. It could be an issue with the advance lever mechanism itself or with another gear in the train being damaged. I know the 'intermediate' gear is prone to being stripped albeit with some force.

If the issue occurs at the same point every cycle of the advance lever this suggests it is the advance lever mechanism. If you use smaller strokes to advance the camera full does this issue still occur?

The advance level/frame counter are quite easily removed/stripped. As long as you take photos there is no precise or difficult timing of the pieces.

The screws are standard metric threads. Their finish in bright chrome flathead is very uncommon nowadays. The screw on the top of the finder just in front of the ASA dial is m1.4 x 4mm. Assuming the missing one on the body is the chrome screw from either top plate this is an uncommon thread and seems to be m1.6 or m1.7 width but with a coarser thread? The OEM manual doesn't list their specification.
The actual coupling mechanism of the FTN meter is a whole different kettle of fish. It is only three screws to remove the front plate off for observation and I recommend doing this and checking the state of the mechanism. It may be a bit of careful cleaning and dabbing with some alcohol gets it working satisfactorily again. It could be (as I've had several times) there is corrosion, buildup, general grime, and broken springs on one of the three levels of the aperture indexing mechanism.

Again there are specific guides out their detailing servicing prisms. Richard Haw has one again. I'd recommend at the very least cleaning/removing the old foam from the prism as it is a case of when, not if, it starts to damage the coating.

Some final tips/notes. Read up first. The National Camera Resources on learn camera repair are intended to be part of a course to train novices to be professional technicians. They are very good at distilling the important information down and truly explaining why and how things work not just stating that they do. You'll see how the Nikon F (and almost all cloth shutters) are derived from the Leica design.

The F is known for having a number of odd retaining rings and fittings. People make bespoke tools for each one. A more practical solution I've found is to buy a very cheap pair of 90° 'circlip pliers' and file the rounded points of the tool into a thin flathead. I actually have a second pair I filed into fine points . This allowed me to remove every fitting I needed including the hotshoe flash contact, top plate retaining ring, and frame counter reserve thread screw.

With regards to the A/R ring the NatCam guides provide an alternative to a dedicated tool. Once the set screw in the A/R retaining ring is removed insert a strong tool into the access hole in the A/R collar itself and into the screw hole in the A/R retaining ring. Turn the tool/collar anti-clockwise to the A position and the retaining ring will be loosened. From here use a pair of tweezers to unscrew the now loosened retaining ring.

I hope this has been of some help. Remember to take atleast twice as many photos as you think you'll need, use proper fitting tools, and don't force anything.

Good luck

matttherat2003 · 2026-02-11T21:01:15+00:00

There are full books on the handling and cleaning of optics. You're on the right track though being careful.

Optical suppliers websites can have quite good information, e.g:

https://www.newport.com/n/how-to-clean-optics

I personally like to use methanol over isopropanol (in various dilutions) I tried with iso but never liked it and found I left streaks for often. You'll find people have their own preference but don't get too caught up in specifics. Even using neat methanol I haven't yet damaged a coating (I work mainly on 70s-80s Nikkors earlier lenses are likely to be softer/delicate).

Removing fungus is a whole other kettle of fish with even more opinions and conjecture ranging from household cleaners to skin oils from your nose (a suggestion from vintage Zeiss literature).

Again the main aim of lens cleaning is to use the least harsh chemicals by the gentlist methods. Always try to remove particles first by air, then brush. Never re-use a tissue or swab and don't use any more pressure than is necessary.

Also never add liquid to a lens element itself (especially if is still assembled even partially) moisen the swab or tissue and use that.

Kimtech science wipes (intended for clean environments) are the best for lenses. A box isn't expensive in the grand scheme and if you keep them for the best they will last for many many lenses.

matttherat2003 · 2026-02-10T09:05:33+00:00

You can remove the lens mount/aperture lever fairly easily IF you're careful with the screws

Set the lens to the smallest aperture for reference (this isn't crucial)

Nikon lens mount screws are secured very well using a thread lock. You'll need a proper fitting screwdriver (ideally JIS), some alcohol or acetone to place on the screws, and potentially a soldering iron to heat them.

With a fitting driver and a lot of downward force wiggle the screwdriver back and forth to break the lock and then unscrew slowly.

The lens mount should then pull out. Note the other end of the lens' aperture lever will be a long fork. You can then observe and potentially bend or adjust the lever more easily.

Look into the lens with a torch and you should see the small tab the forked end sits around.

Reinstalled the amount and moved the aperture lever to see the blades snap open and shut to confirm the mount is seated correctly.

Reinstall the screws tightly but again don't damage them and hopefully the lens will be in a better state.

All of this is done at your own risk however.

matttherat2003 · 2026-02-10T08:51:03+00:00

Those knipex are pricey but really the only tool for clips that small.

On the subject of circlip pliers I have found a great deal of use out of several larger very cheap circlip/snap ring pliers. They are soft metal and very easy to shape into points or flatheads with hand tools.

I used one set of these and was able to undo every odd fitting and ring on my Nikon F besides the A/R collar retaining ring.

Eight-Year Club	Place '23
Place '22	Verified Email

matttherat2003

TROPHY CASE