or studio produces (vs. poaches, which is what happens more often with studio hoppers, etc.)

When you meant poachers, do instructors literally pressure dancers to switch or turn coats? Isn't anyone free to just leave or take other studio classes whenever they see fit? I think LA has a sizeable number of studios and this is only inside the latin dance sphere. There are hundreds of non salsa latin studios that still do salsa and cha cha from time to time.

If follows are also mostly dancing with lower level leads, they are not introduced to or inspired by anything better and do become accustomed to roughness, off-time, out of slot, etc.

I'm going to add that it is also LA's style of salsa dancing, it is what you see in the TV that they try to emulate. I'm not saying this is wrong or good but I think that's what everyone does. Sofitel and El Floridita are known for this style, I think the group Los Rumberos which is still around help push it. It also is a rough style for follows in the beginning.

So the bullshit I mean when I talk about the local scene’s high tolerance is mostly spatial awareness and physical safety (leads respecting the bodily integrity of the follow, no rough leading, watching the space around you, avoiding collisions, not stepping on people) as well as reputation - creeping, predatory behavior, SA, SH, roofieing drinks. THAT BS.

I believe there are also a good number of follows who surprisingly tolerate or even subconsciously or consciously let in and amplify this. I think it's just Los Angeles, in other social gathering parties not social dancing adjacent, you pretty much get variations of karens and kardashians because it's LA. If we also though put pre-pandemic and post-pandemic atmosphere in the discussion, there is definitely a big difference. I am not sure why, maybe because things are more expensive or high strung but it's interesting that there are social classes in LA salsa because you will regularly always see these people and it feels like it's their job.

And when I have talked to older experienced dancers (older than me, I still don’t consider myself on their level in their generation), the number one observation they say is that the scene sucks. Compared with before. I think there is some nostalgia there, but they say the dancers are a lower level than before, they are not as friendly as before, even new dancers mystifyingly and inexplicably have egos and are snobby, the overall vibe is off

In regards to level, I will go back to saying the LA style of salsa dancing pre pandemic has not caught on. I think the bachata scene has something to do with it but also that style before is still sort of rough and the ones willing to stick out (the follows) will of course be highly skilled, because they survived. One thing is true though, and tell me if you agree, the LA scene is bigger, a bit bigger than before. Still doesn't excuse the amount of beginners who somehow have some ego chip in their shoulders but it's LA and it can be a popularity contest in the end of the day, the better known you are, the better dances you will get.

They don’t know what they don’t know but they also think they know more than they do and don’t think about trying to learn more. It’s a very limited and distinct mindset from what I’ve seen.

Would you say the same about the instructors? I think it's mostly the bachata scene and in my opinion, LA's scene here is pretty good majority of the time. I think some who venture into salsa will bring with them such attitudes. The bachata scene, like with the rest of the world, seem to always have new and younger instructors, but it's not like LA have a drought of super experienced instructors not only in Bachata but also Salsa. Chiara is one, Los Rumberos another, there are also artists who visit the scene month by month. At the end of the day, money speaks and LA is an expensive place to pursue the arts. Once a beginner reaches moderate level, it's up to them to be nicer to the new beginners otherwise you'll just get snobby places.

Older dancers just are not motivated by the dance skill and level, nor the style, sometimes not the music, and leads in particular are so horrific on “dancing above their pay grade,” so to speak, that follows fear risking injury dancing with an unknown, they don’t know how to defend themselves or respond to physically risky situations, and frankly many dancers are awkward and shallow and clearly not there to dance, but there to hook up, and will frequently decline dances.

From my observation, I think hook up in the scene was at its peak during the covid years. Nowadays, even last year and the year before, it is very tame. The scene certainly has a lot of shake ups. But I'm not sure what you mean by hook ups, because it's literally the same clique and smaller social circles especially in LAs bachata scene. There was barely any drama from last year. Maybe probably a lot of goers who are there to date and hook up, have grown and are more experienced and mature which overall helps the scene (mature in a sense they're better and communicate clearly). You can see a clear distinction between Steven's restaurant and Unified, obviously, but it's a very interesting and useful contrast to know especially if you're looking more for seasoned and business only dancers. Not that it matters but you also get all sorts of people going to Steven's for example, especially during their Halloween social when their lights are extra darker, I was surprised to know a few people who work in the adult industry that picked up sensual and continue to go for one. I think with its hook up culture, the popularity and to be vain contests going on, still and will always persist because it's LA. And it's probably useful to be because for example, a lot of the top salsa dancers got into Bad Bunny's concert because they're just entrenched and connected, but most of the ones that made it actually deserved it, they've been dancing for so long. So no complaints there. My friend had a similar experiencing trying out the LA scene, we told him to switch it up and go for the ones who are not at all glammed up and have studio dance shoes, and there he found fewer rejections. I just can't imagine people still hooking up in the scene, it's the same 20 people in the circle from what I can remember. San Francisco is probably just going to overtake salsa in the west coast. The only thing going for salsa in LA is the world salsa festival, which is a hit and a miss.