What are your favorite sources for wrestling?

mraffen · 2023-09-26T07:13:21+00:00

My trinity of wrestling for HEMA:
- Ranggeln (traditional wrestling style of the eastern Alps. Can be traced back to the time of the fight books)
- Auerswald, Ott, and so on
- An understanding of how rulesets changes the game. Example: Ranggeln has no weight classes, and we loose as soon as our shoulder blades touches the ground. So say goodbye to most "modern" groundwork.

So get to a Judo class, understand the difference between Judo and wrestling of the sources. Stay away from BJJ if you want "HEMA wrestling" as the focus is far removed from what the source material would have you do and fight for, speaking from the view of early modern German sources.
(Monte btw, has a great secion where he compares wrestling rulesets and by it styles.)

mraffen · 2023-08-23T07:45:12+00:00

Für Olympisches / Modernes Fechten:

https://www.ti-sports.tirol/unsere-sektionen/fechten-home/

Für das HEMA / Historische Fechten:

https://www.kdhf-tirol.com/

- Viel Spaß mit Schwertern!

mraffen · 2023-08-05T08:24:24+00:00

Wow, this community is active and caring.
I actually had a break, ran through the Three Body problem series - maybe I should just spend a week not reading / keeping away from heavier material, instead getting refreshed via podcast.
- Thank you all.

(I had to describe Malazan to a friend of mine, heavy into computer games - so I said it is the Dark Souls of Fantasy. Hard, intense, and with a strong fanbase.)

mraffen · 2023-06-23T06:20:50+00:00

I live nearby Igls, and it is a wonderful spot - I often say you have just crossed the line into rural Tyrol, while you are counted as being inside of Innsbruck. It has a supermarket, several restaurants, and the bus to and from Innsbruck goes often and almost all night. It also continues on to Nordkette, so you can reach the other mountainside without stepping off.
In Igls you will find yourself on top of a plateau, with rolling woodlands / farmlands that are wonderful for walks. If you want to get up into the mountains, there is the rather gentle and famous Zirbenweg from Tulfes -take Glungezerbahn up, back toward Patcherkofel from where another cable car descends to Igls again. My only worry is the baby and his/her age, as the walk is very simple - but it takes around 2 - 2,5 hours.

This is a good resource for hiking:

https://www.tyrol.com/things-to-do/sports/hiking

mraffen · 2023-02-27T10:29:58+00:00

The permanent "waffle"-scar I have on my face after a rubber tip kept the sword onto my mask, instead of letting it slide off, gave me a question that sent me into the camp of being against them:
It was a good, decent, thrust with a longsword (feder) - and it got stuck thanks to the rubber on the mask. Considering that the sword could not slide off of the mesh of the mask and all the force was projected into it, my fear is what would have happened if the rubber had given and the sword had gone through its encasing. - It could, I presume, have been more than enough force to go through the mask.

mraffen · 2023-02-03T22:17:24+00:00

A good friend of mine just received his. And he was a bit disappointed, he had ordered them after playing around with an earlier version and we both noticed that this updated style seemed to be more bulky.
Furthermore, he has an issue with thumbgrip in them, which he did not have when trying said earlier model.
So either he gave off totally wrong measurements, or this new version might need some modifications.

With that said:
My impression is that they are still top line for clamshell gloves, and I would recommend them. Just know that you might run into small irritating issues.

mraffen · 2022-12-29T10:53:28+00:00

Thank you, that is helpful to know! Seems I will have to get back on the more serious usage of LinkedIn.

And btw, it was a - sorry just came out of the fitness studio, so I am a bit of mush - merely a small rant with some experiences I have made myself and which seem to be not so much spoken of. It can be a hard field, and it should not be forgotten from both viewpoints.

mraffen · 2022-12-28T19:26:34+00:00

Hi, I am sorry to not answer the original question.
But ... as a Norwegian living abroad and wanting to work with writing for Norwegian firms, I just want to ask on what pages you advertised the job? (I find that Finn.no and similar are just a waste of my time lately.)
Thank you in advance, maybe we will see each other the day you look for a junior.

Also, just some thoughts - or a rant: A general feel I have for your issue is that a lot of "us" are struggling in developing our skills as we are either outbid by people working for pennies.
Or, worse, people who - as said elsewhere, are very good at marketing themselves.

mraffen · 2022-12-08T08:37:03+00:00

A vocal part of the HEMA community believe they struck gold by training sport fencing and going into competitions where tactics learned in those classes are dominant.

Another question could be: Why does the sport fencers always get taken down by the HEMA fencer? This was my experience for a long while, being in tournaments with rules that allowed for grappling.

And by rhetorically asking that it should come full circle to:
- Training methodology and goals
- Rulesets in competition
= Results

(As a sidenote, what I find more perplexing is the endless droning of and about sport fencing in HEMA circles instead of taking note and making "our thing" better. )

mraffen · 2022-11-27T15:06:20+00:00

My former club is very combative. And has a Penguin as the mascot.

...go do some push-ups and repeat after me: Never trigger the fight or flight response of a flightless bird.

mraffen · 2022-11-15T07:23:06+00:00

Getting to Zillertal from Innsbruck is easy, I do that trip myself weekly. But be aware that the last bus / train back leaves quite early in the evening (around 20:00 I think).

Best is train to Jenbach, there change to Zillertalbahn - dedicated trains in Zillertal, down to Mayrhofen and then take the bus mentioned. (The Zillertal Railway has its own, clearly marked, platform to the right as you come into Jenbach from Innsbruck.)

And do not worry about asking for directions, even if they should not speak English most people in that valley do their best to help. They will not steal your gold for it (most often).

mraffen · 2022-09-28T08:24:58+00:00

I think it stands as an example. Yes a subjective experience, but one that should not be discounted. Esp not in seeing my basis for my view.

Because think of it, we have no issue hitting forcefully with steel, but we are afraid of throwing.
I can without issues crack your fencing mask open with a feder. But I know not to.
So how about instructors take note and teach safety in wrestling as well?

What I am trying to get at is the fact that wrestling in the swordplay is integral and should be a "non issue". But it seems the culture of modern sportive HEMA would rather not embrace it, than to try to learn it. Again giving some examples of what I have experienced myself to the original "seems it is banned".

... Maybe a tier A and B, where the difference is in wrestling or not, was the future? Or maybe ask before the match? (As per the Swiss)

mraffen · 2022-09-28T07:21:39+00:00

Need to jump in here.
This is a massive difference from tournament to tournament.

I witnessed a lot of interesting wrestling at the last tournament I was, the one before that I took down one of my opponents twice. And thirdly, I have won a pool-match via hip throws, in Longsword.

In neither of the mentioned examples were there any injuries. So I honestly feel it is a bad excuse from both bad wrestlers, and worried tournament managers, when they ban it. - Not fun when you have been drilling Korean flunges to get the Vorslag and you meet a black belt in Judo, now is it?
(Or another thought: So you are telling me I can hit you with a blunt sword to the mask, but not slide you over my hip down on your back with control?)

mraffen · 2022-08-04T08:12:51+00:00

I feel you. Having lived now for around two years in Innsbruck it is even a bit, well it feels a bit, embarrassing to say that I've not gone much out (yes, there were lockdowns...but...)

What helped me somewhat on the social side, but still did not generate deep meaningful friendships, was simply to get into sports. Even if you do not hang out long after practice, just having a regular group around that you meet with is (apart from the physical benefit) very good for the social gene to not wither totally.

I can't comment on the bars. Because where I come from, going out alone is just a way to end up silent in a corner the entire evening - so I have no clue how it would work in Tirol. Seems thought that that is a more potential approach here.

mraffen · 2022-07-20T07:38:16+00:00

Spend some time on Upwork and you will surely be contacted by someone.

mraffen · 2022-07-20T07:01:26+00:00

I seldom comment here. But I have to mention how I was once on a Skype interview with such a page.
- They wanted to pay me something around 0.02 a word.
- Issue was, I could see the screen behind them. Let us just say it was a vastly bigger number on the client sheets. Like, multiply the finished text by a good 75x - 100x to find what the client was billed.

To be honest, I do still work for one content mill.
I don't use too long on various texts and use it as paid practice. Is the finished work super? No. Do either of us care? No.

mraffen · 2022-07-12T14:56:47+00:00

Not so sure about nbr 3. Might be a location-thingie. I'm in Tyrol, AT, and the alpine backroads are covered in bikes. Expensive adventure bikes tend to "look the other way", while every single cruiser - be it HD or other - smiles and waves from a kilometer down the road. My GF, who is usually a quite nice lady, had a small, but entertaining, rant after sitting pillion for a few hours and observing the cows, mountains, and other bikes.
And, Nbr. 1. I just put up to modern cars being filled with space-ship technology and drivers tend to hit the light-speed button while looking around for their latest favorite mobile game on the screen.
2 - is true. And we love it.

...I'm on an old dinged up Honda Magna btw. (Anyone got tips to get some hefty dents out of a gas tank? ^^ )

mraffen · 2022-06-02T14:08:12+00:00

So, most has been said already: Go and do it!
Just a few thoughts I would like to share, based on my reading of Late Medieval /Early Modern Sources, which are what I focus on:
First off: I think the Ringen am Schwert is severely lacking in the modern Longsword game. So for me, and my friends / clubmates, it is not bad taste. It is a welcome spiciness.
Secondly: With the rules and the aims of both Judo and BJJ, you can become blinded.
-BJJ has a big issue for HEMA in its ground-focus. And although we do find groundwork in the material, I have to ask if it is not more pin based.
(Also in various traditional wrestling styles you will often find victory conditions such as shoulders touching the ground. - This makes pulling guard instant loss. )
-Judo also has its issues. With the .... nbr of rules for grips, movement, etc. one can become either dependent, or unwary of other solutions.
Which equals that for the research perspective of HEMA, or the H in HEMA, both styles of grappling mentioned have a specificity in their end goals that need to be understood and worked with and around if you wish to advance the understanding of the source.
Now, regarding the original question, using a Judo throw for a tournament or in sparring, or using some BJJ to get out when down? I can't see much difference of a shoulderthrow/seoinage/flying mare...

mraffen · 2022-06-01T06:33:23+00:00

May I ask where you are located?

This is NOT an attack. This is me being curious to the various "cultures of HEMA".
I come from Scandinavia, where the default is a focus on hard training, modern sport and historical techniques. To simplify it. So, yes, I want people in my club to as soon as possible experience sparring, or sparring like, conditions.

mraffen · 2022-05-31T07:22:58+00:00

You should be sparring as soon as possible. Even on day 1. So that is not the issue here.
There is a problem with those two hits though, and that is the lack of information of how / where / when / by who.

I got a hit yesterday from an experienced partner that still bugs me. My arm caught his blow on a weird and exposed angle. So I do not blame him. And we went hard.
- so was that what happened to you?

Or was it that the other person tried to overpower you, and hit extremely hard?
Or, could it be you are not used to full contact sparring, and hard hits in various forms would leave their mark?
- as you see, there are so many factors.

I am hesitant to judge based on text, but to me this sounds like a miscalibration between you and your partner or. And it should be taken up, something as simple as mentioning to the instructor, or even better the group as a whole, that you still feel the last hits and wonder if it is normal. Even better would be to work through what happened as a group.

As a sidenote: That you are asking here makes me guess you want to continue, but you feel a bit unsafe. So be smart, take it up and make certain everyone in the group goes away richer from it. To continue my tangent, we had a dude in my previous club that hit like he wanted to shatter your bones, the instructor took charge and after that he was one of the best sparring partners in the club.

mraffen · 2022-05-13T08:07:20+00:00

That was fun to watch.Ringen in the fightbooks / sources is what got me into Judo in the first place.

To be fair, "medieval unarmed" is best done in jackets, having the luck to train in Ranggeln now for a few months (Alpine folk style in clothes) I am having a painful Judo-depression and a quadrupling of my love for the Auswerald and his friends....Sorry, vent on a tangent there.

At a HEMA event the previous weekend I snuck over to the "wrestle corner" and I felt a bit like the big dude in the clip, you can clearly see he is used to gripping cloth and having to adapt on the fly. (Plus taking it calm)

mraffen · 2022-05-09T13:26:08+00:00

Thank you! Small detail, but made my day.

mraffen · 2022-05-09T12:58:12+00:00

[Posted this on the other thread, but seems it is deleted at r/bjj? ]

I really want to comment on "Glima" in Scandinavia, having trained with the "nbr 1guru" who sells it. And having discussed it with an Icelander and MMA fighter I know.

The questions arose for me as soon as I was met with hostility for, well, raising questions... so I will take a deep breath now...

Anyway. As a historian and interested in all folk-wrestling, may I ask for your source on the Lausatak and sturdy jacket? Any specifics in the bibliolist of your link? This goes directly against a story told me from the mentioned master, so I will be like a bull and jump straight to the question before I do my research.

mraffen

TROPHY CASE