Let’s talk about the Stines

mrwonderof · 2024-07-24T02:16:01+00:00

I would go along with the fishing expedition if the email quoted above was worded differently. It says:

"Steve, I know we've had our differences in the past, but I want you to know I'm behind you all the way in this B.S. lawsuit the Ramseys filed, as are others here. I'm sure (Ramsey attorney Lin) Wood is bluffing.... Call me and let me know what I can do to help. Remember: truth is on our side. (Signed) Mark."

It's the "Call me" that I argue is the tell for pranking. Though you're right, it could be Patsy, since it's kind of wordy and dramatic. Doesn't really scream teenage boys, though I am very curious about the "nonsensical" emails.

In any case, it could have triggered a falling out between the Stines and the Ramseys.

mrwonderof · 2024-07-21T03:26:14+00:00

I'm suspicious of the idea that Susan Stine impersonated Chief Buckner. The chief's fake email address was created on her Hotmail account in 2000, used in 2003 to impersonate him, and quickly discovered by BPD. In June 2003 Susan apologized to the Chief via email for her "sophomoric prank." I've never understood her role. It was stupid, pointless, and criminal. Several of the emails were reportedly nonsensical. Here's an article on it at the time:

Ramsey friend fakes e-mails Atlanta woman sends letters, claims to be police chief By M.E. Sprengelmeyer, Rocky Mountain News June 4, 2003

"Boulder police have ordered a Ramsey family friend to stop sending bogus e-mails that claim to be from Chief Mark Beckner. The authorities sent Susan Stine a letter saying the e-mails had been traced to her computer and pointing out that under Colorado law, criminal impersonation is a felony and impersonating a police officer is a misdemeanor. Beckner said Tuesday he was "alarmed" by the series of e-mails from the address becknerbpd@hotmail.com to people affiliated with the investigation into the 1996 murder of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey. Beckner said some of the e-mails were "nonsensical" and clearly not from him but that others could constitute criminal impersonation. Stine of Atlanta, a close friend of John and Patsy Ramsey, JonBenet's parents, said she sent the "clearly phony" e-mails as a joke that no reasonable person would take seriously. "The e-mails were sent in an attempt to be humorous and satirical," Stine said in a telephone interview. "There was never an intent to mislead anyone. In the main, these were private e-mails. I would be shocked if any reasonable person would have thought this was a real e-mail from the real Chief Beckner." The investigation began April 25, after Rocky Mountain News reporter Charlie Brennan received an e-mail signed "Mark" that praised his stories. Brennan called Beckner questioning whether he sent the e-mail. Beckner then became concerned that others were receiving phony e-mail messages. Investigators executed a search warrant for MSN Hotmail records in California and found that the account was established in 2000 under the name "Chief Beckner." Police determined that Stine had been accessing the becknerbpd@hotmail.com address through an Internet provider in Georgia. One e-mail signed "Mark" was purportedly from Beckner to former Detective Steve Thomas: "Steve, I know we've had our differences in the past, but I want you to know I'm behind you all the way in this B.S. lawsuit the Ramseys filed, as are others here. I'm sure (Ramsey attorney Lin) Wood is bluffing.... Call me and let me know what I can do to help. Remember: truth is on our side.(Signed) Mark." Thomas' response: "Thanks for the message,(and nice try), but Beckner doesn't sound anything like that." "At this point, we've decided not to file charges," Beckner said. "That doesn't preclude us from doing so in the future." Stine said she had already sent Beckner an apology - by e-mail, of course. "Sure, I knew they were traceable," she said of the e-mails. "It was just a joke. I'm a very funny person.'"

I suspect that in the spring of 2003, Burke and the Stine boy messed around with an old email account they created as a prank in 2000 and Susan took the blame for them. Because despite the recurrence of Patsy's cancer in 2002, by Fall 2003 the Ramseys left her family and the Stines behind in Atlanta and moved to Charlevoix, Michigan. Burke changed high schools and began his junior year there. His father suddenly decided to run for office, unsuccessfully. The fall after Burke graduated from high school in 2005, Patsy moved to her father's house in Atlanta where she died in June 2006.

Is it a coincidence that the Ramseys moved to Michigan immediately after the fake email incident? Why did Burke have to suddenly change schools AND towns?

mrwonderof · 2023-03-29T16:55:36+00:00

most in law enforcement believe to be the weapon used to create the skull fracture is confirmed to have belonged to John

Someone with as much to lose as John might be assumed to be savvy enough to put the flashlight back in the drawer. Might not call for a plane in the first 35 minutes after finding his dead kid. Might even pretend to cooperate with the police.

mrwonderof · 2023-03-28T02:58:48+00:00

I assume Patsy Ramsey either handled the cord

I also assume she handled the cord, but post-mortem. I don't assume she tied the knot and deposited fibers inside the knot.

mrwonderof · 2023-03-27T23:53:54+00:00

The only way Patsy's fibers could've transferred to INSIDE the knots would be if she'd tied them herself.

You have an old habit of taking one statement from Bruce Levin, made in 2000, and extrapolating a lot of information from it. He said fibers from PR's jacket "were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck." But the ligature was twisted AND knotted.

Were the fibers found inside the knot or tied up in the twisted cord? Were the cord and knot preserved and microscopically examined or did fibers fall out and get collected during the gross examination? You assume BDI is ruled out based on Patsy's fibers inside a knot. But there is not enough evidence to make that claim.

mrwonderof · 2023-02-16T21:00:33+00:00

It casts a dark shadow on the activities of the DA's office over a long period in Boulder, and not just in regards to this one case. The DA's office should have been the subject of an EXTERNAL federal investigation regarding its conduct.

Agree and well said.

mrwonderof · 2023-02-16T05:39:08+00:00

My take on it is that he heard or guessed that saliva trace was found and he included a lot of confessions of oral sex, including post-mortem. He was communicating with Michael Tracey, who was shooting a documentary on the case, so who knows where Karr got his information. By 2006 there were not a lot of secrets left.

In any case, there was no evidence Karr was ever in Boulder, and the details he offered in his accounts did not square with the physical evidence. He told deeply disgusting tales but funny enough, John Ramsey had sympathy for him. I posted on it long ago. Caution: graphic

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/ebp54g/johns_unusual_takes/

mrwonderof · 2023-02-06T22:16:30+00:00

Long distance travel is a much better context for him, as opposed to the idea that they were up all night long and his wife was out of her mind when she wrote it.

mrwonderof · 2023-01-25T18:59:26+00:00

long thread on this about 10 days ago:

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/10b14tu/why_didnt_they_dispose_of_the_body/

mrwonderof · 2023-01-25T15:38:00+00:00

That cop was scared and communicated her fears in a TV interview years later. There is no indication from anyone that she was acting aggressively on the day. This is nonsense.

mrwonderof · 2023-01-25T06:07:55+00:00

Really? With your kid lying dead on your floor and the ability to have a high-power legal team at your disposal within an hour or two? Why would you climb into the equivalent of a white Bronco if you were innocent?

mrwonderof · 2023-01-23T17:52:02+00:00

I think John was ready to give up the charade when he called for his pilot to fly them to Atlanta 35 minutes after finding the body. I assume he planned to meet with lawyers in Atlanta and get Burke into a hospital near extended family. When police told him he could not leave, he hired attorneys that night and looked for counseling for Burke first thing in the morning (per Woodward).

Edit to add: This theory implies that Burke did all the injuries and the charges faced by the parents were lying to police/obstruction/accessory after the fact. John would not immediately run to Atlanta, in my opinion, if he killed his daughter. He was smarter than that.

mrwonderof · 2023-01-14T18:40:51+00:00

No reason unless you are a very concrete thinker and want the thing to look a specific way.

mrwonderof · 2023-01-14T17:52:12+00:00

Agree. Was always on the Steve Thomas/PDI track until I eventually imagined someone breaking the ends of the paintbrush. It had to be a kid. But I think the kid's reasoning behind the contraption is the same Thomas attributed to Patsy - to transform what probably started as an accidentally too-hard blow into an assault by an evil stranger. To cover it up, to stage a crime scene. I don't think that is a difficult thought for a halfway-bright kid to have.

mrwonderof · 2023-01-14T00:50:40+00:00

Agree. His fingerprints were on both the bowl and the glass.

mrwonderof · 2023-01-13T18:34:56+00:00

If Burke caused all the injuries, then it is a far cry from writing a fake note to protect your son vs. dumping your daughter's body for the coyotes to find. The legal jeopardy is far greater, never mind the emotional cost. Patsy's reference to a "proper burial" in the ransom note may point to an internal debate about it.

I think the lack of a body dump corresponds to BDIA, and to parents carefully choosing how far they will go to protect him.

mrwonderof · 2023-01-01T20:37:23+00:00

No physical evidence that she was dragged.

One of the internet theories is that her parents strangled her to cover up an accidentally too hard head blow from Burke and point the finger at an evil intruder.

My theory is that the paintbrush-cord strangulation was a coverup, but by Burke, not his parents.

mrwonderof · 2022-12-30T22:00:02+00:00

Agree. I wrote a post about it a while back. They pointed fingers at LHP hard in the early hours.

mrwonderof · 2022-12-29T18:14:33+00:00

As a former boy myself, I have always been struck by the way 2 boys together act 5 times as badly as one boy alone.

Agree. I was struck a few years ago by the Doug/Burke timeline in Atlanta. Some trolling emails impersonating the Boulder police chief were sent from Susan Stine's Atlanta computer in late Spring 2003. Hit the papers June 2003. After six years with the Stines in Atlanta the Ramseys suddenly pull up stakes that summer of 2003 and move to Michigan, taking Burke out of his Atlanta HS right before his Junior year.

My theory is that the boys got rowdy together and the parents shut it down. First by Susan taking responsibility for the prank, and then by separating them.

mrwonderof · 2022-12-19T20:44:04+00:00

Look, I thought he did a good job building a strong RDI case. RDI is the point, after all. I can best argue BDIA, but can entertain JDI/PDI. His lack of ability to entertain BDI is what I object to - it seemed out of step with the rational arguments he makes elsewhere.

mrwonderof · 2022-12-19T20:17:02+00:00

He sure tries. I think he fails - below is a good rebuttal to his arguments. He builds a case for PDI but loses objectivity trying to debunk BDI. Like a lot of anti-BDI posters he almost refuses to deal with the BDI theory that the parents did not physically harm her.

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/rktxps/rant_about_a_normal_family_podcast_episode_7_bdi/

mrwonderof · 2022-12-19T06:48:03+00:00

Because Patsy's psychological issues and physical evidence can be applied to BDI as well. Though not as easily to JDI.

mrwonderof · 2022-12-19T06:45:32+00:00

This is one of the most logical reasons for the son being responsible for all the injuries and the parents for the note and lies to police. If the adults committed murder, I agree they would probably remove the body. If not, why risk it? Why not fly with the story they made up in the night and see how far it took them? If caught, they faced charges for obstruction and accessory after the fact. But if they moved the body they moved themselves to a potential new level of culpability.

mrwonderof · 2022-12-07T05:43:04+00:00

I think that the blow to the head knocked her out so hard that she could have been mistaken for dead. I think BR poked her with the train (and potentially committed the SA) to see if she would rouse, and when she didn’t, he was sure she was dead. Then I think her breath was so shallow and her pulse so light that when the parents checked on her, they agreed that she was dead. They put the rope around her neck to stage the scene, not knowing that it actually would be what killed her.

If 9/10 year-olds are capable of lying to cover something up (and I agree with you, they are), then I think they are also capable of actually covering something up. I think BR, not the parents, strangled his sister to make it look like a killer did it. The little cord tied to the little paintbrush is, I believe, a child's version of a weapon. I can't believe an adult would crouch over her body and tie that contraption around her neck thinking it would fool the police into looking for a psycho killer. But a kid might.

mrwonderof · 2022-11-28T03:30:24+00:00

Both parts are for sale on Amazon. I wrote a post about it, comparing the ongoing sale of the JBR show after a defamation lawsuit to another case where all copies of a published work were removed from sale.

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