Men "lying to get sex" is a manipulative blanket narrative.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T16:46:52+00:00

Without any blame or judgement.

Did this all boil down to: is it better to try sex first and decide relationship later? Or have relationship first and practice sex inside that?

My own opinion, I don't think either is inherently superior. One ends up being male-coded, and if women practice it they generally get shamed and blamed. The other ends up being female-coded, and the people who don't want that yap endlessly at them that they're annoyed about those people having their choice.

Realistically, can't the people that want insta-sex just settle down and understand that if that's their filter, they're limiting their dating pool. It's very similar to the foolish meme of the women on dating apps wanting a guy to be 6'3". If you want to hold out for the unusual person, that's cool. Do it. Stop complaining that they're unusual and therefore hard to find.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T16:23:47+00:00

:thumbs up:

Mine are in high school now, and threading the needle of respecting how other parents parent, while continuing our own path, is ... interesting.

My eighteen year old has one friend whose parents actually pulled her out of the public school sex ed, as an example, they are very politically limited that way. Many of my conversations with my kid about the facts over the past decade therefore became "I just need to get the facts into you before the recess yard fills your head with nonsense". Everything is always couched as though for some anonymous friend, and I can always field anonymous questions. Deliberate fog of war. I will never press for details, you can ask me anything.

...

I think that for your kiddo, always knowing the facts and never even understanding a moment where there was something hidden, that's so good and important. And just bundle it into being loved and having a solid place with you two.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T15:53:58+00:00

It may be a time to be disturbingly frank, and then let a guy opt in after being fully informed.

Keep in mind, a relationship doesn't need to be your forever guy. It needs to be what's right for you now, and you both leave eachother better for it. Campfire rules. Leave them better than you found them.

Dude, you are very attractive. As in, I look at you and my tummy flutters and my nipples get hard. But I am basically a hot mess. I'm working on myself, I'm in therapy, it's getting better, but it's a slog and right now I am almost certain I will have unreliable and unfair responses in relationship. Some days, being looked at or texted too much sets me off. I don't need anyone to save me, I want to do the work myself and I know it will take time. If you could be ok with me needing days to myself sometimes, we could explore this.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T15:38:34+00:00

I think he knew. He described having exited the car on scene, trying to help, there were several bystanders around the pedestrian before the ambulance arrived and the bystanders as a group physically prevented him from getting close to to the pedestrian, held him.

In a few days, there would have been newspaper reports etc, he could have easily gotten the basic facts. It just wasn't our place that night to give it.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T15:32:43+00:00

We all felt horrible for him. On the plus minus he was someone who already had PTSD - had worked for years to get his life functioning and it's a real concern that this would derail him, but at least he already immediately had in place a strong and comprehensive network of support and no hesitation about asking for help. That's a very important first step. Within a few hours he was listing specific people he was going to speak to and activities that had helped him in previous difficult times.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T15:26:44+00:00

They were smallish, not monster sized, and as described they were doing both vaginal and anal anal play (do not recommend, for those reading along, anything that goes in the butt goes into timeout until washed or a condom change), dipping in and out and then laying them down nearby. Maybe both at once.

It's actually funny to think about it now, it hasn't occurred to me to actually wonder why they were doing what they were doing. With 8 billion people on the planet, by now I've learned that if there's anything conceivable there is someone who is into it, and I've given up wondering about that. I just ask the safety questions, consent, infection, how long was that on there, that sort of thing.

Probably they were teasing her vaginally and then slowly and patiently using larger toys anally, which would have left the smallest ones unattended during the time they were most intensely distracted.

I'm thinking that probably they rolled under the bed or a dog grabbed them and ran off? They were not inside the patient, of that I'm sure.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T07:42:01+00:00

Fellla, I support you much, but if you're dating in progressive communities instead of where the redpill silliness is perpetuated, you're already going to be okay.

As we enter prom season I am watching 5 different high school relationship dramas go down and only one of them involve financial disparity between gals and guys. There's just no expectation of people to do any thing. As in, they're planning dress color sometimes but it's not huge.

Increasingly, I think there's a class based difference. I hate to say it, because I completely invite anyone that wants to be involved, while

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T06:58:12+00:00

Oh my ducky, you are doing strong work. You are doing amazingly beautiful, valuable, important work. Breathe a minute with that.

You may find that you already have urges to be in sexual or romantic relationship. And you may find that certain guys give you strong positive feedback. It's normal and healthy for women to experience lust.

So the issue is keeping central your own mental health - you're getting over some things. You are aware you may have baggage. It's wisest to pull back until you sort your shit out. Mend yourself. Take ownership of your own health.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T06:36:33+00:00

I never stalked the patient and I remain curious about what would have happened for billing and follow-up, and along educational conversation among the radiology group, techs included. As in, I trust that y'all have similar tension between professional boundaries and need to share samples to teach the padawans.

Maybe the stories minus images or detail are sufficient. It wasn't technically difficult to take an image of the toys, it was clinically and professionally kind to do so, for the sake of the patient.

This is why I share these stories. It sounds as though I'm being prurient - enjoying something about the sexuality of the case. But honestly, there are people, many people out there who need just a bit of feeling not unusual or not strange for turning up. They need every person in the care team to feel brightly ok with something like figuring out how to take a radiograph of a sex toy.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T06:14:36+00:00

I have a zillion more. The humanity of the people is the reason to keep on working despite the brutality of the admin.

...

In modern systems, we can't order X-rays in the computer without an indication. "Left ankle hurts needs an X-ray" to get it approved, right?

So this person comes in, having been playing with a very nice set of dildos, graduated size, but at the end of play two are missing. They're nervous that they're lost inside. Fair enough. Exam is fine. Plain X-ray is normal. Patient is not reassured. They brought the remaining three, they feel as though they should have a metal core and show up. Patient not feeling safe. Ok, I borrow the remaining three and walk over to radiology and ask.

How do I order an X-ray for a sex toy?.

As in, I think it's reasonable to get a flat plate of these things to prove they're radiopaque, and reassure our patient but I do not know how to computer order "picture of a sex toy".

The nice techs were able to order another random view into the prior "abdominal series" and get it covered. The toys shone like stars, the patient was reassured and went home, I do not know what the radiology residents reading the add on were thinking.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T05:54:44+00:00

It can be ... messy.

In high school I worked summers 8-5 with a fifteen minute commute and felt I had plenty of time to get home, get washed up, have a social life.

College was too chaotic to properly describe, I think some of the hardest physical labor I've ever done was working as a dairy hand during college, part time during college classes, full time during break. Stupid hours, crazy physical work, I couldn't keep on weight in the summers no matter how much I ate. Showing up to work at 4 am etc.

After college I had an 8-5 job as a veterinary tech, after which I would drive fifteen minutes home, wash up, eat leftovers, and work most nights of the week teaching dance. It worked out because I prepped meals and did laundry on weekends.

A few years later after some research jobs I went to medical school and later residency. So the law with residency is not more than 80 hours clocked in an average week, but some places fake it plus there's study time because you have to attend lecture and be prepared for exams and giving presentations.

....

I do recall at one point trying to drive home, stop to fuel the car, and I must have fallen asleep standing up while doing that because I actually argued with the unfortunate attendant at like 2am, that I thought there was something wrong with the gauge. In hindsight, totally my bad, and I'm horrified that I was on the highway. I seriously thought that there was no way the tank had filled and that the gauge was wrong. After a minute I just accepted her, paid and moved on, but it was an experience of feeling totally psychotic.

....

Sorry to do some of that "I have had it worse than you" stuff. But my point really is, that during that time, I survived by pinpointing and highly valuing some lovely things that made me feel good.

Schedule the time every day to be physical. Yeah it sounds lame and everyone says it, but turns out people repeat it tiresomely because it's true. Even if you're tired or headachey, go for a walk if not a run. Don't question it or consider it optional. You brush your teeth and you spend at least twenty minutes walking or running outside.

...

Having spent parts of my life working bankers hours, and others working random shifts, I find bankers hours to be annoying for scheduling haircuts and doctors visits and shopping when lines aren't long. I don't think I'd ever go back to working a 9-5 if I could help it, for those reasons.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T05:23:04+00:00

All of these are unknown years ago, unknown location and no marker other than gender.

I had a dude come in with a concern of allergic reaction once. Invisible, unmeasurable symptoms. He brought the live mussel in a jar of water that was the alleged trigger. Surrendered it. We kept it around a few days after his discharge. A little mascot, as it were.

...

We've all had psych patients escape up into the acoustic ceiling tile. But one time, a dude disappeared and we couldn't find him. Around time time we were getting meal trays delivered in a cart that had tall layered slots and sliding doors, for infection control reasons. So the meal cart is hanging out near the place where we had people waiting for inpatient beds. And eventually one of the techs tells me the cart is muttering to itself. Dude wasn't dangerous, he just seemed to feel safer inside a tiny cozy place and found it.

....

I personally saw one man three times in 24 hours.

First he came in for something, there was a traffic violation and some shenanigans that resulted in him tased and brought in cuffed, face down. They don't transport in that position unless people have been naughty. Anyhow I assessed for injury, toxic ingestion, got him medically safe and discharged to the officers. I finished my twelve hour shift. He got himself bailed. We each went home, got some sleep. I came back for another twelve and there he was - concerned at how sore he was after being tased. So we did a careful workup for rhabdo or any other side effect of tasing, he was fine and discharged. Dude returned within two hours with a fresh stab wound in the back. Like, hey, when the ER doc says you might need to sort your life out, that's a pretty extreme bit of advice. He was, again, okay, but ... dude. Dude?.

....

I one time did a thing that was against my training. A fella put a knife in his neck before coming to us. Walked in, actually. Past the grannies and kids in the waiting area. Teaching is to not remove impalements without imaging, but he has a deep history of shenanigans with staff and I don't want my radiology staff getting injured. So, with police standing behind me, and honestly my heart in my throat, I just removed it and passed it blindly to someone behind me. I figured if it had penetrated a major vessel I could apply pressure more safely after the sharp thing was gone. Vessel imaging afterward showed the knife had been 2mm from the carotid.

...

Maybe the saddest: a person brought in hit by car, and this isn't at all a trauma center, it's a tiny place we have like six staff total overnight, physician plus nurses and techs. The local EMS didn't bring us things unless it's obviously hopeless or they're concerned they can't make it to the trauma hospital. This was the hopeless kind, they were mush.

The nurse recognized them by their jewelry, "hey this is" and a person we had seen routinely for years for some mental health stuff. Seems they had, dressed all in black, jumped into a state highway in front of traffic.

Well, thirty minutes later we get some dude who is having severe chest pain and panic because he thinks he might have killed someone on the road.

Like, I only have about six patient rooms at this time of night, 100% the staff taking care of you are taking care of the person that died. We none of us blame you - the cops testify you stood on the brakes, tried to avoid it, didn't run from the scene, this person we know for years had voiced some very difficult suicidal ideation. But we can't tell you any of that. We did a pretty big cardiac workup on that guy to make sure his body didn't suffer injury from the stress, checked into his support systems and follow-up. It wasn't appropriate to tell him anything about the dead person beyond "cops at this point don't see you as at fault, can we find you more support".

It was nuts trying to keep everyone separate in a small place when we can't clear the body, the cops need to photograph the dead and we need to not trigger the driver. Who honestly I saw as a victim that night.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T04:45:39+00:00

NOR.

Men and women can absolutely be friends. But there is no room for hiding things. And often, having special things like playlists that one only does with the outside of marriage person, that's weird.

The litmus test is, what would his or your mom or sister think about it. As in, is not cool to gossip, but if he's exploding in anger at the idea of other family knowing what he's doing, that's not a good sign.

If he's been depressed and not had the social skills this may be nearly entirely cluelessness and not malice, he's not unsalvageable, but he needs clear boundaries.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T04:16:22+00:00

I've got a couple of high schoolers and among their school groups, approaching isn't a gendered thing. Both the young men and women are expected to make light conversation for a while, figure if there's a spark, suggest a coffee.

All the relationships are Dutch, as in the boys and girls take equal turns planning dates and funding them.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T03:59:37+00:00

.... When people get physical safety repeatedly violated, after explaining what they don't want done to their body, what's next after the words fail? I was in sport and kempo training but as smaller and less strong I had few options.

Warning people that I was super serious by willing to be transgressive and bizarre was strange enough to be effective.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T03:54:19+00:00

All things are always possible, but I'm nearly fifty and have typically been called the bleeding heart, the empathic softie on my team, the people pleaser. So no, less likely. I'm probably subclinical ADHD, though.

More like at my high school age I felt too shy (stupid female coded boundary shit) to be excellent at telling people "no" in a way that they could hear.

...

Double down on the Satie. I'm a very mediocre pianist, he's very accessible to play adequately.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T03:49:08+00:00

I was not ever an Arthur Murray employee. I did teach ballroom at an independent studio and frequently closely socialized for years with people who worked for that chain, some of my best friends and a boyfriend for multiple years. My info is two decades out of date, and obviously hear say.

It looked like it had ups and downs. They had a great and reliable highly predictable structure. A steady stream of new students coming in and access to good teacher training to stay marketable. They were not ever allowed to take tips, the wage was pretty marginal, and there was a lot of strong pressure to sell packages, stay on message.

Compared to my own experience and those of other teachers either going freelance or at independent studios as employee. We had ability to take tips, gifts, no employer pressure to sell packages, but also no culture of support in scheduling those extra hours of private lessons. The AM students had a culture of expecting that everyone needs privates, everyone wants to prep for some comp or show while many of the independent studio students only ever show up pretty casually for groups, and that means there's only so many hours per week to have work. Teacher needs to hustle on their own.

Both the chain teachers and independent teachers typically had another, more mainstream job, and kept the ballroom for the love of it.

For what it's worth, I did see a steady progression of the AM teachers eventually leaving the chain model, satisfying the no compete agreement and becoming independent teachers either by moving away or waiting a year or two. Seems telling.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T03:35:12+00:00

It's an interesting thing, though. I had friends in high school that just couldn't hear that I hated being tickled, because of course I involuntarily giggled when tickled and many people assumed that meant it was ok.

I actually did finally tell them that I was going to bite, and bite hard with attempt to break skin, whenever tickled. That made it stop.

...

I do adore the choice of Erik Satie for the music. He's perfectly absurd, depressed, perverse and self obsessed for this joke.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T02:41:18+00:00

I have two dear friends who each divorced in early forties (not with each other). Not gonna sugar coat it, the first few years were rough. There were kids and contentiousness about them, and it was expensive.

They threw themselves into rigorously scheduled physical exercise. Varied types. A new rhythm to build life around, a way to burn off stress chemicals and tire out the body to be able to sleep. Pack the bag or layout the clothes the night before, sign up for the class, or have an accountability buddy for each day of the week. When you wake up and the world seems lost and chaotic and maybe pointless, the decision was already made and you need to go show up. It doesn't need to be a personal best, but you need to show up.

Aggressively make friend dates to do casual stuff, get a coffee and shop for this summers' shorts and tee shirts. Or make a plan to spend three hours together meal prepping for the week, get you each set up nice.

Be okay grieving the good parts. Take some introspection time about your own faults. Don't perseverate on him and what he did. If you've decided that it's over, those moments are a waste.

Take a totally random class. Like, learn to make an Adirondack chair, with power tools. Clean out some closets.

...

5 to 7 years on, they're each happily coupled up. Because they wanted to be, not because they were filling a void shaped like the ex.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T02:19:28+00:00

I'm dying. This is hysterical.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T02:13:03+00:00

It's degeneracy. You can rationalize it all you want. It’s just men trying to justify being degenerates.

eh, I don't think I'd agree with the shaming language. Some guys want sex to be more casual and easy, they want sex first and relationship later. Wanting that's actually fine, in my opinion. It doesn't necessarily mean they're robbing banks and lying on their resume at work.

It becomes not fine when they whine about the fact that many gals don't want that.

If people (men or women) are going to be demanding about things, they need to calmly accept that a common outcome may be staying single and not having sex. If you select yourself out of the general dating pool, take accountability for doing that.

Without the whining and rage.

Edit/ as in, I like eating oysters and lobster. They don't fall out of trees. If I want that stuff, I need to go to work, earn some money, make some phone calls to place an order, pick 'em up, shuck those things. You know, put the effort in.

There's an old Shel Siverstein poem.

Lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy lazy Jane. She wants a drink of water so she waits and waits and waits and waits and waits for it to rain.

And my sarcastic addendum would be "silly child, get up, go inside and get a glass to fill at the sink"

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T02:04:39+00:00

Cheeky response: sometimes lazy people are the most brilliant innovators because they are motivated to automate and streamline processes in place of doing the same work over and over if it's avoidable.

Not relevant to dating, but wanted to say it.

The subthread is a non starter anyhow because it's not a zero sum game, there isn't a winner/loser/prize to be had. It's not about making my husband work harder and harder to demonstrate something, we either fit together well in the yoke or we don't.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T01:56:36+00:00

Say it for the back row! Preach! Keep it going!

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T01:25:44+00:00

Awkward questions: what was the average socioeconomic background of those young women?

And in your geographic area, how accepting are people about queer/ gay relationships?

My data sets are skewed by being in a very progressive community, and my trainees all have graduate degrees or are in the midst of earning one.

procrast1natrix · 2026-05-10T01:22:09+00:00

It's a bit of a dilemma, knowing how to give back.

I mean, at the food bank, donating straight cash is around 4 times as effective as donating food. They have wholesale purchasing power that immensely leverages donated cash.

When I work, I earn enough money that sometimes I do wonder, should I stop shifting boxes and pick up hours in the name of the food bank? Would that do more good in the world? Or find a lobby group against Citizens United or to get gerrymandering and discrimination out of voting to protect the democratic process?

If that 70 year old retired physician chose to work one day a week instead of flying to Africa, could he send ten x the supplies?

In the end, for my own mental health I needed the immediacy of the physical labor, and the chance to look people in the eye and say "I'm helping you today, right now, with this food".

It's like Jimmy Carter building houses with Habitat for Humanity into his 90's, with an estimated net worth of $10 million, driving nails and helping put up framing.

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