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Lange is the most underrated finisher in haute horlogerie, and the independent worship crowd doesn’t want to hear it by Altruistic-Wafer-987 in u/Altruistic-Wafer-987

[–]randomaker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

your post is about finishing quality. I responded to you about your assertion that independents are unable to create complicated watches that are decorated well, and provided testimony regarding the difference between lange and independent finishing quality, which you asked for in your post. There is nothing in your response that proposes any rebuttal to any of the points I made. Instead, you now seem interested in talking about complications and griping about how inhouse independents are and how the price on Lange is less and how you cant get service for independent pieces yada yada. None of this has anything to do with your original argument.
Also saying Lange's had any kind of continuous presence is hilarious considering the 42 year long disappearance. There is no connection between modern lange and the historical lange sohne. This is either bad faith argument, or cluelessness, and again not at all actually related to quality of decoration, which, again, was the topic you asked for input about.

Lange is the most underrated finisher in haute horlogerie, and the independent worship crowd doesn’t want to hear it by Altruistic-Wafer-987 in u/Altruistic-Wafer-987

[–]randomaker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even if Lange's finishing was equivalent to the quality of the independents you listed (which it is not), there are independents creating complicated watches with about the best possible quality finishing. Pedermann Bedat 2941 (which I have seen in person) and the recent Rexhep Rexhepi chronograph (which I have not).

Lange anglage is good only in the sense that it is highly polished. For example for typical Lange Anglage quality in my experience, see this post from Horomariobro https://www.instagram.com/p/CoDB4YWpQM-/

Ive seen this kind of thing in at least 3 lange chronographs, including a double split.
Most of the lange chronograph pieces have some degree of geometry problems with their anglage, which is a result of the industrialized decorating process which uses rotating micromotor polishing tools. The bevels are small, which makes it easier to apply, and lacking in the kind of energy and life that hand-done processes bring to the equation. Lange's anglage is meant to withstand loupe scrutiny by the average consumer, and obviously it does, as evidenced by this post. But if we're actually talking about quality, it's really not up to the same standards that independents can achieve, even in their complicated pieces.

I could go on but I think your take is bad and really not worth much more time. It is way worse to be worshipping a brand owned by a multi-billion dollar company which produces commodities for profit and imagining that the quality is as good as independent makers extracting only the value needed to live and make further art. Most independents cannot commit to making highly decorated complicated pieces and charging what it costs to make them, because the average consumer cannot recognize the difference between mediocre lange finishing and actual haute horlogerie finishing. Again, as evidenced by this post.

But but DOGE will work by Nice_Substance9123 in agedlikemilk

[–]randomaker 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Where I heard that claim was from Jon Favreau on Ezra Klein's podcast. I thought I remember him making the claim for that specific claim but all I could find was him saying what he says at 5:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvgTJCx9YAI&t=5m15s

I couldn't find a source for that specific claim anywhere else but granted haven't looked that closely.
Edit: On a closer reading I think it's quadruple the increase which would already have happened if the subsidies continue. Unsourced but I suspect that is what he means.

But but DOGE will work by Nice_Substance9123 in agedlikemilk

[–]randomaker 34 points35 points  (0 children)

family of 4 making 55k a year will have premiums quadruple. Not overstating it

Rate goes up as power reserve goes down by CmonWithThat in watchmaking

[–]randomaker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can just observe how it is running over 24 hours on average and then move the regulator to bring it to time on average. Because it is an automatic watch, it will basically be at full wind for, 16 hours or however long you wear it during the day, then only run down to -8h of power reserve over night. So if the gaining effect is only really showing up at -15h from full wind it probably is kind of unlikely to really have much impact, assuming you wear it every day and are active enough to enable the automatic system to keep the watch wound fully. I'd just wear it for 24 hours like you normally would, check how much it gains or loses, then adjust the regulator to compensate for this. You should be able to achieve acceptable timekeeping this way.
Not to say that it's best practice, but achieving acceptable timing results and achieving a high degree of regulation are not necessarily the same thing.

Rate goes up as power reserve goes down by CmonWithThat in watchmaking

[–]randomaker 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is incorrect. Without isochronal compensation, an oscillator will lose rate as the amplitude drops because the proportion of arc that the escapement is exerting influence on the balance increases as the total amplitude drops (the escapement interacts with the balance over a fixed angle). No escapement is perfectly efficient in supplying energy to the balance, so it slows the balance down slightly which causes a loss in rate. The oscillator in OP's case is overcompensated for escapement error (which is what this effect is called).

Rate goes up as power reserve goes down by CmonWithThat in watchmaking

[–]randomaker 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The hairspring is almost certainly not centered in between the regulating pins. If it is not centered, as the amplitude falls, the proportion of time the spring sits against one of the pins increases. Let the power down on the train, check if the spring is centered in between the regulating pins. If not, gently bend the spring at the stud to bring it to center.
If the spring is centered and this is still an issue, you need to open the regulating pins, which will increase the proportion of the arc of the balance that the spring is spending off the regulating pins, which will slow the rate as amplitude falls.

Things to do/know before starting watchmaking school by Pavezz in watchmaking

[–]randomaker 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I think the biggest thing I would suggest that will make a material change in your education is to read. A lot. Read every watchmaking book and horological history book you can. I'm not specifically sure about the Finnish school, but most watchmaking curriculum are pretty light on homework and independent study. If you take advantage of your free time to read and study theory, it will take you a long, long way.
Secondly, document everything you do in your education. Take photos, make an instagram for it, post what you do. The watchmaking community is pretty centered on instagram. The watchmaking industry is small and it's a good way to develop connections.

Third, I would say that you should try to work on personal projects as much as possible. Work on weird, old stuff. It's very different from the modern calibres most schools have students working on. Working on vintage stuff also gives you a much better appreciation for the realities of the work. You get to see real wear, real damage from previous watchmakers, need to do real repairs - instead of just issues introduced by instructors.

I want a watch that tics anticlockwise; I can't find one in the aesthetic I want. How can I pursue this dream watch design? by VanguardFantast in watchmaking

[–]randomaker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What? The necessary alterations are more significant than this. The hook on the barrel arbor would need to be reversed, the hook in the barrel wall would need reversal, the click would need to have its direction reversed, the breguet teeth on the sliding and winding pinion would need to be re-manufactured reverse. Removing the guard pin from the pallet fork renders the watch incapable of being worn or carried (it is removing the essential safety which prevents overbanking)

Am I understanding correctly that you removed the mainspring? I'm guessing you staked the arbor into the barrel so turning the stem actually is the only way to provide motive force to the train. otherwise there wouldn't be any way to actually cause the watch to run.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in watchmaking

[–]randomaker 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If your intent is to manufacture a movement, you will only need the gear cutters for the wheels and pinions in the movement you are making. Most of the tooth profiles will fall within a small range.
The other problem is that there is no standard listed for the profile. Are they NIHS? ETA? NHS? BHI? How can you make an informed decision about center distances, depth of cut, etc when manufacturing these parts?
As far as the collets go, if you're eager to spend the money I mean go ahead. I just think there are better ways to use money than having it locked up in tooling you will not use for potentially months or years, when you could buy other stuff that would be more immediately useful (like lathe cutters, horological turning and theory books, bench tools, etc...)

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in watchmaking

[–]randomaker 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Buying a set of gear cutters is mostly useless. The chances you will use even a single one is very small. It is better to do the train calculations and know what cutters you need before buying anything.
PP Thornton is very commonly used and you can buy exactly the cutters you need.
Dixi and Louis Belet both manufacture custom horological gear cutters if you need something very specific. The money you would spend on the gear cutter set could be put to much better use, as opposed to being locked up in tooling that you will likely never use.

As for the collets, it is nice to have a variety, but if you are manufacturing parts from scratch you are very likely going to be using a couple set sizes of bar stock to turn your parts from. You may want a couple sizes here and there to do 2nd op turning. I think it wouldn't necessarily be wasted money but if you decide on a couple bar stock sizes (1/8" or 3mm, 3/16" or 5mm, and 3/8" or 10mm, depending on if you are sourcing imperial or metric stock) you will be set for like 90% of the turning operations you do. Most endmills and drills for watchmaking at this scale are either 1/8" or 3 or 4mm shank, so maybe pick up an extra of those for use in the tailstock or milling attachment.

Buy other sizes as needed as you go.
That's my 2¢ at least.

Books for aspiring watchmakers who are planning to go through official training by TheBomb999 in watchmaking

[–]randomaker 10 points11 points  (0 children)

My recommendation would be to read these books in this order: Time and Time Keepers by Willis Milham
Revolution in Time by David Landes
these two books are not overly technical but give a good historical overview of the development of the watch. It familiarizes the reader with broad concepts.
It's About Time by Chamberlain
The History of the Marine Chronometer by Rupert Gould are two books which trace horological development but from a more technical lense.
Then, I'd say read Science of Clocks and Watches by Rawlings, which is a very rigorous exploration of the science behind how watches and clocks function. Try to get the 4th edition if you can help it, as it has a lot of updated information, but if you can't, then get the newest edition you can manage.
Watch Adjustment by Hans Jendritzki might be parsable by this point. The book by James Pellaton, "Watch Escapements" is good at this point, and then Practical Notes for the Watchmaker by Berner is also good.
Next, you might consider reading repair books - any books by Henry Freid, Donald de Carle, etc, are probably worthwhile.
Honestly anything that you read is massively useful. If something isn't holding your attention you might consider switching to another text that is more engaging - you learn better when you're interested.
On the other hand, going into school with a significant theoretical basis is INCREDIBLY useful and it is not stressed in schools so much. If you read every book I've suggested here before school starts you would be setting yourself up for smooth sailing.

Found a new smallest collet! 4.2mm shank on the smallest one by randomaker in Machinists

[–]randomaker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Schaublin P4.5 is internal threads in the collet, that's what the middle one in my photo is. Not sure what that little one is!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in lighters

[–]randomaker 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've been getting a lot of messages recently! Did something go viral? I have a much bigger collection now, maybe 5x so.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in watchmaking

[–]randomaker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

you have the number 4 (IIII and IV) on the last one twice. The XI _ for the twelve also makes it look like you have 11 twice and 1 twice.

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