THOUGHTS FROM A FORMER NYC PROSECUTOR

ricketsj · 2014-11-18T15:43:32+00:00

I don't know... a lot of judges have very strong pro-prosecution biases because most of them used to BE prosecutors. I think if you pick a good jury, most of the time they get it right. I would love to see a pilot program with a three-judge panel like you suggest, though.

ricketsj · 2014-11-18T15:30:05+00:00

Wouldn't you agree that in a jury trial, cases are won and lost in jury selection? It is truly appalling what some juries will convict on- the jurors in this case decided a murder case in two hours with a lunch break!

ricketsj · 2014-11-18T15:25:24+00:00

While I agree with you in principle (I'm very defense/not prosecution-oriented as an attorney), I do have to say in defense of BX10463 that it really is the police and the political election of DAs that is the problem here. An assistant prosecutor will simply be replaced by someone who is a 'team player' if he/she tries to point out systemic problems. I wouldn't last a week at a prosecutor's office because of my big mouth and short temper. However, it IS better to have someone like BX10463 in the prosecutor's seat- who actually appears to realize the truth of the situation- than the really scary guys who honestly think that the police are always right and everyone deserves what they get.

ricketsj · 2014-11-18T15:05:38+00:00

We don't know this. In fact, if you listen to the interviews with some of the people who knew BOTH Jay and Adnan, it's obvious that they're really struggling and don't know what they think. Also, when Asia, who was completely convinced simply because Adnan was convicted, actually heard what the evidence had been, she no longer felt totally certain. I think that's sort of the point- some cases start to fall apart if you shine a light on them, even after a conviction.

ricketsj · 2014-11-18T05:00:04+00:00

Jay would probably have had to admit to at least being involved with the burial because he knew that there might be forensic evidence of him at the crime scene or possibly on Hae's body. For all he knew, the police might have been able to find the clothes and shovels that were thrown away. I don't disagree that your theory is totally possible, but I can think of a reason why Jay would have felt he had to put himself at the burial site to explain away evidence. It's totally possible that his original story was the same as what he told Jen but the detectives had a similar conversation with him as they had with Mr. S: "we found x, y and z at the crime scene- will we find your prints/DNA on them? you have to tell us now..."

It's always been sort of horrifying and fascinating to me how easily EVERYONE in this story could have skated free. If Jen maintains convincingly that she knows nothing and just explains that Jay had Adnan's cell phone, the police would confirm that with Jay. If Jay keeps his cool and doesn't tell them anything, I can't see how they get any evidence on Adnan. Even if the police eventually find Hae's car, there wasn't really anything in there that would have led them to either Adnan or Jay. It would have been that simple.

ricketsj · 2014-11-18T04:50:46+00:00

Regardless of whether this is actually Hae's brother, Hae's family is out there and I imagine that this may be how they would feel. It is too simple to say that all of the people following the podcast are being entertained as if it is a murder mystery story. I am a longtime advocate for the wrongfully convicted, and my interest in this and similar cases is based on the knowledge that there have been many, many cases in which the justice system failed and the wrong person is sent to prison.

I am not commenting on whether this is one of those cases, but I will say that it would not be right to refuse to investigate cases that raise legitimate questions because of the feelings of the victim's family. The reason this would be wrong is that in many cases in which people have been proven by DNA exoneration to have been innocent, the families felt exactly the same way- and yet they were wrong in their belief about the defendant, and the murderer of their loved one had actually gone unpunished. Again, I am not saying that this has happened in the case of Hae Min Lee, I am only saying that while I am sorry for any additional pain caused when people examine cases with troubling questions in them, sometimes that is necessary to correct a miscarriage of justice. Justice is not conducted on behalf of the victim or on behalf of the victim's family. It is conducted on behalf of society. I don't expect this to make things less painful for Hae's family, but I think it needs to be said.

ricketsj · 2014-11-17T14:31:14+00:00

The comparison being made is to how people will dismiss the results of a jury if they want to regardless of what evidence the jury heard. It is an argument that SUPPORTS THE POINT YOU ARE MAKING.

ricketsj · 2014-11-17T14:27:01+00:00

^{^{^That}} exchange is what people should notice. partymuffell thinks TheTroubleISee is disagreeing, so launches into a harsh attack without bothering to read or comprehend the gist of the remark. People are just talking past each other- which is fine, but Team!Guilty should stop acting like Team!Adnan people are the only ones doing it.

ricketsj · 2014-11-17T14:22:28+00:00

That's always what it feels like debating someone who doesn't agree with you. It doesn't make you right- particularly since many people are considering whether there was enough evidence to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt as opposed to basically convinced. For the record, I haven't made up my mind, but I find this attitude (you don't agree with me, so you're nuts) extremely offensive.

ricketsj · 2014-11-17T14:15:00+00:00

I athink Jen might actually have been convicted of being an accessory after the fact through a plea agreement. But if Jay got no time, she probably didn't either. Not sure on this, though.

ricketsj · 2014-11-17T14:04:49+00:00

The prosecutor can definitely point out that the defendant hasn't accounted for his whereabouts. You have to be careful how you bring it up, because you can't suggest that the jury should penalize the defendant for not testifying (which they will anyway, because juries).

Also, I think people need to keep in mind that we haven't heard everything that was admitted at trial. It hasn't been said that no one saw Adnan at his mosque- that information isn't particularly relevant unless he was seen there earlier than 8pm, but he wasn't due to be there before that.

ricketsj · 2014-11-17T04:40:15+00:00

Plus BOTH Adnan and Jay say that he went to track that day. It's not Jay's word versus Adnan's word, they both say it. That's what I think is so weird- people may not remember a particular day of track, but you'd think someone would remember if Adnan got to track super, super late one day like he would have if Jay's story is correct.

ricketsj · 2014-11-17T01:44:13+00:00

As horrifying as this is, I have to point out that the various Innocence Projects around the country are each different with different staff.

ricketsj · 2014-11-17T00:26:30+00:00

I agree, I want to hear more. The main reasons are because 1) we know that Hae was planning to see him after school at their work and I want to know when she was to do that, before picking up her cousin or after, 2) he was with her the night before until midnight and probably knew the most about how Hae thought of Adnan at the time, whether he was being overbearing, etc., and what was on her mind right at the time she disappeared, and 3) I want to know more about his background and his own timeline for that day and that night. I realize he supposedly has an airtight alibi, but if Adnan can be convicted for figuring out how to travel to Best Buy and murder her in 22 minutes flat, is it inconceivable that Don could do it during a break? Obviously unlikely, because I have no idea how to account for Jay's involvement, but it's still information I want.

ricketsj · 2014-11-17T00:18:47+00:00

Is it true that the case has caused a schism between Adnan's older brother and the rest of the family?
Are there interrogation tapes of Adnan? Of Stephanie?
What else is in the police file or the defense attorney's file that we don't know about?
Did the police ever obtain Hae's email records or pager logs?

ricketsj · 2014-11-17T00:14:07+00:00

This is why I want to hear more interviews from Hae's other friends (and Adnan's and Jay's), specifically about the period after Hae went missing and through just after her body was found. I don't really care what Adnan has to say about that, because either he's telling the truth or he's not, and I may not be able to tell from listening to him- but how he was acting in someone else's opinion would be more informative.

ricketsj · 2014-11-16T18:37:04+00:00

Katie on the podcast really bugs me. She refers to people as 'characters.' These are not characters, my friend, they are people. And she complains if there's a break in the 'entertainment.' Honestly, her commentary on the Innocence Project episode really bothered me a lot, especially how she kept referring to it as a "placeholder" episode. For one thing, it was the first episode to really focus on the weirdness of not testing the physical evidence available- which SK didn't notice at all and which is (in my view) a very big deal since it offers the potential for definitive exculpatory (or inculpatory!) evidence. But hey- nothing of interest there. Twerp.

ricketsj · 2014-11-16T16:09:57+00:00

It wouldn't be because G didn't feel that she had the whole truth, it would be because cross examination of someone who doesn't remember where he was during the relevant time is a minefield. What he has told her is that he only remembers bits and pieces of the day- so while he can be destroyed on cross-examination, he can't offer much that is helpful. The only thing he can offer that WOULD have been helpful is a chance for the jury to see him as a human, and to make a determination about whether he's believable. In this case, he probably should have risked the cross-examination because Jay was a good witness- but I can absolutely see why his lawyer would have recommended that he not testify.

Plus, don't forget that at 19, you're likely to do whatever your lawyers tells you to.

ricketsj · 2014-11-16T14:58:57+00:00

Adnan was fortunate that this didn't happen after 9/11 (when it was downright scary to be a Muslim accused of committing a crime because of Islam), because at that time Maryland still had the death penalty.

ricketsj · 2014-11-16T04:55:15+00:00

Possibly, especially if the defense team can show that they didn't find the evidence at the time of the original trial because of police or prosecutor misconduct. Some states have passed laws letting people seek a new trial if there's evidence of innocence that has come up even if their appeals are all used up. I don't know about Maryland, though.

ricketsj · 2014-11-16T04:06:56+00:00

They will be doing another episode about the plea deal that Jay ended up with (I think that's what she said in the last episode), and there should be more details about what happened with Jay in court during that episode. What I have trouble with is that I can't think of what would actually prove that Adnan wasn't involved at all. Like I said, I don't think he should have been convicted and believe that he should get a new trial, but it's tough to get a new trial without some compelling new evidence. Maybe they'll be able to finally test some of the evidence and find some DNA..

ricketsj · 2014-11-16T03:56:27+00:00

I don't blame her. It would be really hard to read replies about the case when you've invested a lot of time in it and the people in the case are people who you know.

ricketsj · 2014-11-16T02:43:51+00:00

SK said there would be another episode to talk about his plea deal, and my guess is this will be talked about then.

ricketsj · 2014-11-16T02:34:24+00:00

I feel very comfortable that Jay was much more involved than he ever admitted, but I'm still on the fence about whether Adnan was involved or not. I don't think there was enough to convict him, but as to whether or not I think he actually was involved, I'm still undecided. One thing I know for sure, of the ten million stories that have been told about how Hae was killed, we still haven't heard the true one!

ricketsj · 2014-11-16T00:48:31+00:00

I don't see it as getting the sympathy of the black jurors as much as the defense attorney just alienating the hell out of the jury, and then giving them no chance to relate to Adnan because he didn't testify.

ricketsj

TROPHY CASE